Sorry Guys,this new format is not working for Kudos

[jackhandy]

I know which bike I'd rather commute on...

And that's coming from a paid-up mtb devotee.

 

[Wander]

Meanwhile back to Kudos Dave's point .................

 

[Deleted member 4366]

Maye this makes the point: the first is Chinese;the second is European:

 

[Cyclezee]

I know which bike I'd rather commute on...

And that's coming from a paid-up mtb devotee.

And what might that be Pete

 

[D8ve]

Difficult Kudos. I want to know what is out there. Bikes and kit. I don't want questions like what is the best bike to do a 3 mile commute to give the same answer as what bike is best for a race up Ben Nevis.

 

[Kudoscycles]

sorry Trex,I disagree with every element of your posting,D8veh visited Shanghai last year and his posting is on the button as far as China is concerned. Without the 48 per cent anti-dumping duty on vanilla bikes the Chinese would dominate the world cycling market.
To answer your posting ,point by point.
1) if you visited the Shanghai or Taipei shows you will see the way that the Chinese home market is changing...bikes are no longer the transport of the peasant,there is a growing market for expensive sports bikes (note not the old Mao flying pigeon clunkers)
The big European manufacturers such as Specialized,Ghost,KTM have big stands at Shanghai to sell to the Chinese home market-some Chinese are now very wealthy and sports bikes are becoming cherished product,note with much brand awareness,if Armani made bikes they would sell.
Chinese manufacturers are not blind,they see the future and are copying the best of the European product,the Chinese product is getting lighter every time I visit china,only the Dutch seem to prefer heavy bikes.
EN 15194 seems to allow brake cut outs on only the rear brake line which is allowing a greater choice of brake/gear lever combinations.
Good hydraulic brakes are easy to buy in china and even Magura now seems to have a Chinese operation.
2) The BPM motor has more low speed grunt than any Bosch crank drive,it is easily available from the better of the manufacturers. Note,Alibaba is considered the buying source of amateurs,the bigger manufacturers have no need to having more than a passing presence. It has been nicknamed 'Alibaba and the 40 million thieves',most of the advertisers on Alibaba are traders-not usually the source.
3)it is very difficult to get the bigger manufacturers to fit throttles outside of EN 15194,only the smaller guys will offer throttles that allow operation above 6 kmh.
We have to accept that the UK market is so small that our requests cannot be met by Chinese MOQ's-Kudos is just big enough to meet these MOQ's,provided we buy 6 months ahead. Unfortunately the smaller assemblers do not have auto wheel building,own frame assembly or rolling road testing facilities so the reliability suffers and that is why some of the smaller importers to the UK have unreliable product,which gives Chinese product a bad reputation.
I am off to China for the whole month of April. My trip will take me to both Shanghai and Canton fairs also Suzhou,Changshu,Hangzhou,Guangzhou,Foshan,Tianjin. I will see some very bad Chinese product and some wonderful product. However what I have noticed is that the product seems to have settled to a good spec,light and at a mid range price. At last we are not changing the concept too much,which is allowing us to concentrate on detail-to improve the breed rather than making radical changes.
Our Kudos Secret bike for 2014 has been fitted with a 52 tooth chainring (faster,less cadence)and telescopic seat post (taller riders),it has made a good bike into a very good bike.
KudosDave

 

[Artstu]

Are they both the same price to compare?

I think not.

I wasn't the one to draw the comparison, as Dave has admitted

To be honest my question about the comparison with Ezee bikes in that thread was deliberate and loaded

Of course they're not the same price, and of course they're not comparable either.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

The reason I chose the Ezee Torque in that thread was because I believe for the commute that was indicated in that thread, the Ezee bike would do the job better, which in this context makes it a better quality bike. if you did a long commute on one, you'd know what i mean. It's comfortable, relaxed, long-legged, powerful and reliable.

 

[Clockwise]

I think we are safe to say that the chinese don't often have cheese in bags as chinese culture isn't very big on dairy. I'm sure this has good repercussions in the ebike industry.

As for Kudos posts in whichever subforum, whatever.

 

[billadie]

Oh Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz
My friends all drive Porches, I must make amends

Sometimes on this forum I have a lot of sympathy for the the late, great Janis Joplin. My poor old Chinese copy of a Dutch Roadster (Smarta LX8) with all the weight and cheap bits really doesn't cut it. I need something lightweight and sporty with hydraulic disk brakes, an italian frame, a Bosch motor. Maybe a BH, or a Haibike.

Then again, the poor old Smarta has ploughed up and down the A38 over the last few weeks despite the filthy weather - and the best efforts of a Peuguot driver. The only faults it has in nearly four years and 15,000 plus miles have been with replacement battery and power supply .And poor paint quality. I suspect that if I ever replace it I would buy either another Chinese or a real Dutch roadster. The horror stories I read on this forum of snapping spokes, unobtainable spares reminds me of why I stopped buying big Citreons; fabulous when good, but not good too often.

Worked hard all my life time, no help from my friends
So Lord, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz

 

[rustic]

Be careful what you wish for, coz you just might get it......

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

He got shot down because he tried to rubbish Ezee bikes by saying "it doesn't look like it would even last 10 minutes".

you're mistaken.... AGAIN!!

I said, it wouldn't last me 5 minutes, and I went onto to justify this. Which I don't seem to remember you being prepared to debate.

and I seem to remember in that thread that most people tended to agree with me, that its ok to want a performance bike with quality components that doesn't weigh more than a car - and we shouldn't be called snobs for wanting that.

The thread Kudos is talking about is the one where the guy who lives about 10 minutes from our office was asking about bikes to commute on and we suggested he could borrow a KTM to try. There was only one post about KTM.

We then tried to help with his questions about the commute because we have direct experience of riding in this area. But it was taken in the wrong way, so we backed off.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I'm going to respond, because I do feel you're confusing people with your posts d8veh.

But why did you choose those bikes to compare.

I think you'll find he chose those bikes (brands) to compare... because it was you who was trying to tell me that I'd be better commuting on one than the other, when you have no idea about the type of rider I am.

It was you who tried to compare the brands... not us or Artstu.

The reason I chose the Ezee Torque in that thread was because I believe for the commute that was indicated in that thread, the Ezee bike would do the job better, which in this context makes it a better quality bike. if you did a long commute on one, you'd know what i mean. It's comfortable, relaxed, long-legged, powerful and reliable.

because you think its better for the commute - DOES NOT make it a better quality bike.

If you want I'll take my GoPro on my commute with me next week, and show you why I really wouldn't feel safe hitting some of the sections I do on a bike with the forks and brakes that the eZee bike has.

and again I'll say for the record. I'm not saying they are bad bikes - I'm just saying they are not suitable for everyone, and I don't believe its appropriate for you to be trying to tell me that it would stand up to the type of riding I do.

 

[jackhandy]

And what might that be Pete

It ain't the mtb...

But then - I don't need a commuter do I?

Just that gutsy motor

 

[Fish36]

As a forum 'newbie' I would like to contribute to this thread if I may please. Just thought a purely general public, new to e-bikes point of view might have some value?


I suspect there are many people out there similar to myself...I started to look at e-bikes for a reason (in my case health related) and a search on a popular search engine brings up the Pedelecs site usually near the top of results. Click on one of those links and generally you are in to a good quality and highly informative e-bike discussion.


Before I joined the forum I had read a great number of threads and 100's of very interesting posts by both trade and individuals. Many thousands of people no doubt read this forum and go on to make a buying decision from what they read without ever becoming a member or making a single posting.


As this thread is trade related here is the relevance. It soon becomes clear some trade members contribute a fantastic amount of time to this forum giving great insight into their products, their bikes specifications, the spares situation and their route to market (ie dealer or mainly direct sale) giving a member of the general public a great insight into buying from that company and how the ongoing running of that bike may be. Do I want to buy from LBS or am I happy buying at distance? Do I want local dealer support in return for accepting that dealer of course quite rightly gets a margin from the sale?


Those trade members that do commit this huge investment in time and effort are the ones I would personally feel comfortable to purchase a new bike from as I actually feel I know something about the company, their bikes, the efforts they went into on putting together a good spec for the whole machine, even their trips to relevant trade shows to view the latest technology that they may then go on to apply to their bikes. If they hadn't contributed to this forum or ceased to be part of it, then I would have no clue about their bikes and would be highly unlikely to purchase one because I would never have become familiar with their brand and given in consideration.


It is important to me that when new technology that improves e-bikes in general (lighter weight, better spec, improved battery life/types etc.) is brought together in a new model that this information is available not just on the dealers website but here and is easy to find, not hidden away. But I don't want just a picture and a spec list...I want to know the 'story'. That the frame was manufactured in the same facility that builds 'XYZ' brands 'premium' frames, I want to know why something is better or improved...basically, why I would want to buy it over other choices available out there.


Newbie's like myself are unlikely to have the 'inside' industry knowledge of why a BPM motor is better than a standard one etc. So for someone like me, I want to know there is a new machine available and I want to know about the thought process that created the spec behind it. This forum is to my mind perfect for that as long as the information can be found easily.


I feel there is a big difference between a thread that announces a new machine going into great detail for potential purchasers benefit compared to the 'I need a bike to get to work' thread and dealers varying levels of 'contributions'.


Oh, and yes, a separate section just for battery related stuff might be spot-on

 

[D C]

Oh, and yes, a separate section just for battery related stuff might be spot-on

And maybe a special section for posts that turn more argumentative than informative so I could avoid them

 

[Artstu]

The cheaper Chinese bikes are OK for the average Joe who isn't a serious cyclist and hasn't experienced the superior feel of a better bike. As everyone keeps saying that will change in the future when the improvements to Chinese bikes filter through, no doubt the price difference will also be much smaller too, if not the same price as a European brand.

I watched a programme the other week where they showed British companies moving production back to the UK again, perhaps this will happen with bikes?

 

[eHomer]

I confess I'm guilty of starting several threads in the "Electric Bicycles" section that I should have launched in "Electric Bike Conversion Kits" because they were connected with DIY parts builds, rather than off the shelf complete eBikes. (I'll be more careful in future ! )

I'm quite new to this forum, and those section titles seemed a little ambiguous though. I took "electric bike conversion kits" to mean complete kits, rather than DIY construction using mix and match parts, and I therefore thought that "electric bicycles" was a safer more general heading for almost everything, especially judging by the posting traffic in that section.

Perhaps it would be clearer if they were renamed as "Proprietary Electric Bikes" and "DIY Constructed Electric Bikes" with a new general section entitled "General Electric Bike Usage" .

I believe that ebike forums potentially have two quite different clientèles, those that are very interested in the technicalities, and those that are not.

The questions and answers on ready-made bikes are very useful to anyone simply wanting to just buy and use one, and the Q & A on the individual components and their assembly are a great help to anyone tinkering with this fast developing new technology.

A great forum though, as ever totally dependent on the level of knowledge from the posters, which this one has in spades.....

 

[los monty]

Dave, we don't mind where posts are located. Previous feedback from forum members was that they wanted selling threads to be separate from the main discussion. It's always a fine line keeping everyone happy, so If people want everything lumped into one forum, that's OK. What does everyone want ?

PS Don't forget we've just launched a new front end heavily geared towards attracting new electric bikers so if you've got news, send it to us!

I really don't care as I use the new post facility and suspect most other regular visitors do. On joining I read all posts for a while but now am more selective. Many people are not in the market for a new bike or if they are have
a preference and events tend to have a local attraction which may have a bearing on views.
The post clearly indicates Trade members and we have to sort useful info from bias. A skill we perform on purchases day in day out. Opinions are just that and everyone has different needs and wants or we would all be riding the same ebike.
To sum up I am happy that by labelling clearly where posters may have a trade bias you have provided members with sufficient protection.

 

[mike killay]

I never understood the objection to a trade Member replying to a new members 'What bike should I get?' query with, 'Buy my Monster xxx'
Neither should a Trade Member who does that object if others pile in with 'Rubbish'
Such debate, although it can get heated is healthy for the forum and helpful for the members.
I ride a Tonaro Enduro, which for some reason attracts a lot of criticism from Trade and the more sporting members.
It is in fact an excellent bike as testified all over the world on other forums. But it was the user members piling in to defend the bike that reassured me.
I say, let the Trade be part of the main forum