Sunday Times: Electric bike story

10mph

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 13, 2010
351
0
England
it was dry this morning so I did another of my occasional getting fit rides on my push bike, up my local 10-12% hill, surmounted today without stopping - a great improvement over 2 months. I am waiting for an electric bike to arrive in March and to compare performance when assisted.

In the meantime I look everywhere for e-bikes but see very few. I read Pedelec Forum, and try and find a good theoretical model of BLDC motor driven by a PWM controller (so far without success).

While recovering from my ride with a cup of coffee, I always first turn to the Cycle Guy article in the In Gear section of the Sunday Times. Today is the first time I have seen a report there on an electric bike: 3 days with a Giant Twist Esprit Power.

A young looking Matt Rudd (if the photo is of the author) concludes, "At the moment it's just OAPs and alcoholics with confiscated licences. That will change, because .... this is the future" .

This is nothing new for Pedelec Forum readers, but it will be interesting what Matt Rudd's promised further report in a month or two's time concludes.
 

lectureral

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 30, 2007
397
60
Suva, Fiji
Here's the text for those who don't have access:

Hmm. So. Here we are in the middle of all these cars with their V8s, brake horses, turbos and sub-ten-second 0-60s, and I’m going to extol the virtues of a bicycle with a 250W motor and a top speed of 15mph? Tricky. Except, of course, this is the future, writes Matt Rudd. This is 21st-century motoring genius. And while you all sit in traffic jams burning off your liquid gold — sorry, petrol — I will be scything past with a fat wallet and a smirk on my face.

The electric bicycle has arrived. Yes, I know it arrived years ago but that didn’t count. Old electric bikes were all a bit, well, electric bike-ish. The Gocycle was an iPod with wheels. Everything else was a Frankenstein cross between a cheap mountain bike with a battery strapped to the back and a slow moped with pedals.

Not any more. Leading bike manufacturers such as Giant and Trek are finally starting to do it properly. I have spent the week in the company of Giant’s Twist Esprit Power. It has no button paper-clipped to the handlebars. There is no awkward motorbike-style throttle. You just start to pedal a bit and the torque sensors kick-start the fully integrated motor. It’s silent, so it feels like magic. The first 100 yards down the street, I’m afraid to say I whooped like a small man in a big Aston Martin. Then I got my neighbour to have a go and he said it was just cheating.

It is cheating. Absolutely. But that’s just what you need when you have a remorseless hill on your daily commute . . . and you’re not getting any younger. There is an “eco” mode, which makes you pedal more, but on the first morning I left it in “sport” — which, ironically, is the mode you want if you’re not feeling sporty. You do 30% of the work; it does the remaining 70%. It is simply joyous to glide up hills you normally wobble or walk up. And if there’s a Lycra lout to breeze past near the top, so much the better. With these new, integrated, bike-style electric bikes, the lout doesn’t even know you’re cheating. It’s heartbreaking for him.

Of course, it would be too much to expect everything to be perfect. On the way home, my five-mile route includes a very, very big hill. And on that first day, I had two microwave meals and a bottle of Blue Nun in my backpack (it was Valentine’s Day). I tried to take the hill in top gear, the optimist’s approach to a serious gradient, but the 250W motor couldn’t cope. We (30% me, 70% bike) almost ran out of puff half way up. We dropped to 7mph, 6mph, 5mph. And the battery, which is supposed to be super-efficient, drained itself of power rapidly.

Distraught, I phoned the manufacturer and it emerged that I was doing it wrong. You’re supposed to tackle really big hills in really low gears. Then everything will be fine, albeit slow. It’s now day three and we’ve got used to the really big hill and we’ve broken seven Lycrists’ spirits.

The Twist’s battery plugs into a normal socket and takes three-and-a-bit hours to charge. I managed a rubbish 14 miles on the first charge but I’ll do 20-plus on the second. If I was more “eco”, I could stretch to 50. A battery lasts about 1,000 charges and costs about £450 (though prices are falling). On an average of 25 miles per charge, that’s 1.8p per mile. Plus a splash of electricity. Bargain.

So the only real drawback is the cost: £1,695 (though Giant has cheaper, less integrated versions from £995). It’s a lot less than anything with a V8 but it’s still a lot more than a bike that doesn’t cheat. This is because not enough of us are buying them. At the moment, it’s still just OAPs and alcoholics with confiscated licences. That will change, because, as I think I’ve mentioned, this is the future.

Although I’m only five days in. There will be rain. There might be snow. And at some point, I’ll run out of power at the bottom of that hill. I’ll come back to you in a month or two — and we’ll see if it’s still the future then.

Giant Bicycles | UK / Ireland
 

stevebills

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 14, 2010
443
4
"At the moment it's just OAPs and alcoholics with confiscated licences.
My mate went to the doctors on his electric bike

and said do u treat alcoholics?

he said of course I do.

my mate said any chance of taking me for a pint im f**cking skint. :)
 
Last edited:

dmcgoldrick

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 17, 2010
446
-1
My mate went to the doctors on his electric bike

and said do u treat acoholics?

he said of course I do.

my mate said any chance of taking me for a pint im f**cking skint. :)

with the new rules to give gp's the purse strings , you never know your luck.....
great joke...made me spill my coffee !!!!

'oap's and alcoholics'....not yet either but getting close !!!!!
 

morphix

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 24, 2010
2,163
119
Worcestershire
www.cyclecharge.org.uk
"At the moment it's just OAPs and alcoholics with confiscated licences. That will change, because .... this is the future" .

What a ridiculous dismissive remark for that journalist to make. He seems to be overlooking the thousands of people who now rely on electric bikes to commute to work. It's not the future, it's the here and now ;-) Not to mention the growth of the industry, which the government is not nearly doing enough to support IMO considering it fits perfectly with their greener economy plans and helps reduce the growing problem of congestion on inner city roads.
 
Last edited:

EdBike

Pedelecer
Sep 10, 2010
181
0
"At the moment it's just OAPs and alcoholics with confiscated licences. That will change, because .... this is the future" .

What a ridiculous dismissive remark for that journalist to make. He seems to be overlooking the thousands of people who now rely on electric bikes to commute to work. It's not the future, it's the here and now ;-) Not to mention the growth of the industry, which the government is not nearly doing enough to support IMO considering it fits perfectly with their greener economy plans and helps reduce the growing problem of congestion on inner city roads.
I think that's what he means - 'the future is now' (isn't that a Vodafone slogan?)
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,249
3,197
What a ridiculous dismissive remark for that journalist to make.
Your missing the point, the word ridiculous and journalist belong in the same sentence. Along with the words like, irresponsible, childish and twat. It isn't the task of imparting factual information that matters to the journalist, its taking a cheap and uninformed swipe at something innovative. They must rubbish everything, run it down, make a silly joke about it, especially if it is British. Even more so if innovation was thought up by a nerdy, geek-like social mis-fit of a British scientist or engineer. That's what they do. And they do it in ignorant bliss.
 
Last edited:

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,862
30,413
"At the moment it's just OAPs and alcoholics with confiscated licences. That will change, because .... this is the future" .
These groups do still either dominate or are commonplace in e-biking though, so not as outrageous as it might seem at first glance.

The age profile of this forum is very biased to the OAP end, and the forum membership is only about 4% of the UK's e-bikers. That other 96% is dominated by the older age groups and particularly the retired as the longest established e-bike companies know. This has been changing recently, but a more even profile is a long way off yet

And it's also true that an e-bike is often turned to by those losing their driving licence after an excess alcohol conviction, including a number of members past and present. There's even been a couple of them saying they would get rid of the bike the moment they got their licence back. "Lost licence" usage has been helped by the media highlighting this advantage of them at times.
.
 

Scottyf

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 2, 2011
1,403
-1
Indeed i appear to be one of the younger members of the forum. However i can see why those who lost their license turn to ebike's. Its about the next best form of personal transport. Rather than public transport. I got mine as i wanted a project. Also i wanted something i could get round the city on and save some cash on petrol, parking, and sometim in the summer i could commute to work on. But as its 9 miles each way i didn't want to turn up stinking either. I have both car and bike licenses but once you've brought, fitted the ebike kit. Thats all your out goings. It really is simple stuff. An being at the forefront of a relative and growing industry is exciting.
 

Streethawk

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 12, 2011
634
15
"this is the future"

That's exactly what i thought after my first eBike ride. I'm 31, and hold a clean license for both cars and motorcycles. :D
 

z0mb13e

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 28, 2009
578
3
Dorset
I would say the future is bloody expensive petrol and diesel making ebikes look that much more attractive...

I'm 37 and also hold a clean driving licence.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,862
30,413
I'm 37 and also hold a clean driving licence.
I'm exactly double that at 74, also with the clean driving licence, plus 58 years of no claim bonus and preferred policyholder discount when relevant.

Didn't switch to an e-bike from an ordinary bike until two years after reaching pension age
.
 

Scottyf

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 2, 2011
1,403
-1
I'm impressed people of that age are aware of forums to be honest. Flecc you are possibly the oldest person i know that use's the internet properly. I know thats more of a back handed compliment but really to me thats impressive.

My parents don't even know how to use a pc and have only just worked out how to text on a mobile. You techie genius!

Its nice to see other generations using forums to share knowledge, experience.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,862
30,413
Thanks Scottie. :eek:

We do have a number of members in their 70s and I remember member ITSPETEINIT who was 78 when he first joined this forum in December 2006 and made almost 500 posts from then on, many helping others where he could. His last post was in May 2010, so when he was at least 81.
.
 

timidtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 19, 2009
757
175
Cheshire
GambiaGOES.blogspot.com
I'm impressed people of that age are aware of forums to be honest. Flecc you are possibly the oldest person i know that use's the internet properly. I know thats more of a back handed compliment but really to me thats impressive.

My parents don't even know how to use a pc and have only just worked out how to text on a mobile. You techie genius!

Its nice to see other generations using forums to share knowledge, experience.
Thinks - shan't tell him I'm 75!
 

10mph

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 13, 2010
351
0
England
For those who take exception at the style of Matt Rudd's piece it may help to know the context. It appeared on the page before Jeremy Clarkson's centrefold piece on his latest car test. If Rudd's style irritates you, then I can assure you it is only Clarkson-light.

One has to see beyond the attempt at a light hearted, humorous style and look for the hard facts. So what is the age profile of electrically assisted bike riders? Several posters here have pointed out that there are plenty non-OAPs, and I am sure nearly all have or could have valid driving licences. In fact it might be better to describe these as the age group with the vision to see the future. Can we get a message to Matt Rudd to inform him of age profile of the Pedelec Forum members before he publishes his follow up article?

Daniel.weck's age poll has been in progress since Feb 2010 so more or less the last year.
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/polls-surveys/5423-anonymous-poll-what-your-age.html
agepoll.jpg
I have to admit that the over 60 group is smaller than I expected. It must be that we OAPs have time to hang around on the forum during the daytime.

If you have not already polled your age group please do so and I will email him the chart in ten days or so. I will also point him to this thread so do add any thoughts (polite please!) for him here.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,862
30,413
This is a very recent age poll though. The original one showed a very much higher proportion of older members, and doubtless having voted once early on, they haven't bothered to re-enter on the new poll.

Even this new poll shows how dominant the over 40 half of the population are in e-biking, and it should be remembered that there are some "lost licence" members in the younger groups.

Add to that the fact as I've pointed out that we are in no way representative of the e-biking majority and Matt Rudd's point is well supported. To use the poll, which is only 5% of our membership and at most 0.2% of e-bikers nationally, as indicative of e-biking nationwide is misleading.
.
 
Last edited:

thingaby

Pedelecer
Jun 20, 2008
54
0
Just in case Cycle Guy ever finds his way to this forum and this thread I'd want to say I enjoy his column in the Sunday Times and it is the first thing I turn to in the paper. I'm pleased with his article about the electric bike and pleased he is giving it a fair chance with a longer term review. His joke is a bit lame but as Flecc points out it has more than a grain of truth. But, I'm not sure it is fair to characterise electric cycling as cheating (and I must immediately confess to enjoying giving the lycra boys something to chase when I get the chance). My electric bike has been my re-entry point to using a bike. I've gone from doing nothing to getting out there. I've now got a Brompton to supplement the bus pass and I'm debating getting into some cycle touring - on my electric bike or maybe buying a rohloff equipped touring bike without power, that's to be decided. The electric bike will hopefully continue to have its place in a range of options. And that is the point. It's not cheating. It's making sensible choices about what I need to get the most out of being a cyclist.
 

10mph

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 13, 2010
351
0
England
This is a very recent age poll though. The original one showed a very much higher proportion of older members, and doubtless having voted once early on, they haven't bothered to re-enter on the new poll.
.
I did look at the older poll I found at http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/13-cyclist-age.html
My reading was that the age distribution of those 139 votes were not that much different to the current poll of 218 votes. There are different age bands, but it gave 48% over 50 compared with the present poll which gives an identical 48%, if you sum the 50-55, 55-60 and over 60 categories.
I dont know to get at the national age distribution as opposed to the forum distribution. Perhaps those with shops would have a view about their customers?