A term that really gets up my nose, is "Received Pronunciation." Who exactly is receiving what, from whom, and by what right?
The French put a stop to it.
- Thread starter neptune
- Start date
I am ... again!I thought it was Perceived Pronunciation ... but I could be wrong ... I often am!
Received Pronunciation is defined in the Concise Oxford Dictionary as "the standard accent of English as spoken in the south of England" ... which, of course, explains everything!
So by that definition, Received Pronunciation, is the language as spoken on Eastenders, innit? Otherwise known as "Cockanese". Or perhaps, the language you "receive" on the "Wireless".
That last part is correct Neptune, effectively received pronunciation was the English used by BBC announcers on TV and radio until fairly recently.
In the last decade the BBC and other broadcasters have been increasingly using announcers and presenters from various UK regions, making that no longer always the case.
Personally I prefer the use of the traditional received pronunciation since it makes for the best intelligibility. All too often on TV in the last decade I've been unable to understand the occasional word or phrase spoken indistinctly with a regional accent or dialect.
In the last decade the BBC and other broadcasters have been increasingly using announcers and presenters from various UK regions, making that no longer always the case.
Personally I prefer the use of the traditional received pronunciation since it makes for the best intelligibility. All too often on TV in the last decade I've been unable to understand the occasional word or phrase spoken indistinctly with a regional accent or dialect.
We have come a long way from French Stop signs. Personally I love to hear regional dialects. In my early days of long distance lorry driving, I sometimes struggled to understand Glaswegian, Geordie, and Scouse dialects. But after a while, you develop an ear for them. Like most people, the way I speak depends on the company I am in at the time. I can still speak broad Lincolnshire if in the right company, or I can speak something fairly close to Received Pronunciation if in the company of people from other regions, or indeed countries. I gave a lift once to a young polish couple who had come to spend some time in Lincolnshire on a working holiday. They said that I was the first Lincolnshire person who they could easily understand, as I spoke "like a College Professor !" I did not know whether to be complimented or insulted.
The other thing I find with Radio and TV, is that my hearing is not quite as sharp as it used to be.
My wife and I once spent a week with some friends in Wigan, Lancs. She went into a shop to buy a pair of tights. She was born in Cambridgeshire, and when she says "tights", it sounds like "toights" . She failed totally to be understood, and had to fetch our Lancashire friend to buy them for her!
The other thing I find with Radio and TV, is that my hearing is not quite as sharp as it used to be.
My wife and I once spent a week with some friends in Wigan, Lancs. She went into a shop to buy a pair of tights. She was born in Cambridgeshire, and when she says "tights", it sounds like "toights" . She failed totally to be understood, and had to fetch our Lancashire friend to buy them for her!
I originate from the north, so I do understand the accent ... but it is the mispronounced or incorrect words that infuriate me! Bring back the white shirt and black bow tie of the BBC radio announcers!
They spoke 'proper' English
I do too, and having spent years in the army among others from all over the UK I'm also well used to all the regional accents and dialects. The problem arises when someone mispronounces or speaks unclearly, and that combined with the regional accent or dialect makes what is being said unintelligible.
True. I have no trouble understanding most of what's said in other parts of these islands. A lot of that is because the wireless spread RP which did influence the way that many people spoke over several generations. I would say it's gone downhill since the demise of RP - RP was a good thing in many ways; the audio equivalent of Civil Service cursive script that was taught in schools, with the idea of creating a nation of potential talent to draw upon to run an empire.
That, and deepest darkest Ayrshire or Dumfriesshire. I did occasionally run across the odd one who spoke a real countryside dialect.
Over the last half century, there has been a dreadful decline in both spoken and written English in my opinion. Consider, "Should of", "Would of" and "Could of" as everyday examples. I would readily agree with anyone suggesting that regional accents add colour to our language and help to assist with the identification of someone's place of upbringing within the UK but there is no excuse for really bad grammar or spelling.
We can all make mistakes but the recent thread here about the simple word "pedal" drew attention to the frequency with which a rather large number of contributors failed to spell the word correctly in the context used most often in these pages. Our schools have clearly failed in one of the most basic facets of their primary function if we are turning out so many who cannot distinguish between simple words like pedal/peddle, of/have and so on. Many of us learned basic English and arithmetic such as our "times tables" by rote at school, in many cases suffering corporal punishment for failure to grasp and remember. Perhaps it's that which is lacking?
The predilection of many of the modern generation to use text messaging as a major part of communication also seems to have exacerbated the misuse of many words and the BBC's departure from the essential RP requirement for all announcers and newsreaders was a major mistake by the people running things within the corporation. We have all probably heard the sentiment, "Spelling's not important so long as you get the meaning across" and similar phrases perhaps designed to help dunces not to feel too bad about their shortcomings. These things all put together, unfortunately, convey us all ultimately in a race to the bottom as we become inured to bad spelling, poor punctuation and bad grammar.
In days gone by, many people aspiring to self-improvement, particularly if seeking employment within the BBC's television department, took elocution lessons in order to soften, or lose entirely, their local or regional dialect. Frankly, I much prefer news bulletins, particularly if there's grave announcements to be made, to be delivered by someone with a neutral speaking voice that we might guess originates from somewhere within the home counties though not immediately identifiable as from a particular county or town. Some of the BBC continuity announcements lately sound almost comic in their delivery by faceless voices with strong regional accents more suited to ITV.
It seems to be part of some great conspiracy, sometimes known as the dumbing down of society, helped immensely by what we now understand as "Reality TV"........then again, maybe I'm just getting old and crotchety!
Indalo, (AKA V Meldrew)
We can all make mistakes but the recent thread here about the simple word "pedal" drew attention to the frequency with which a rather large number of contributors failed to spell the word correctly in the context used most often in these pages. Our schools have clearly failed in one of the most basic facets of their primary function if we are turning out so many who cannot distinguish between simple words like pedal/peddle, of/have and so on. Many of us learned basic English and arithmetic such as our "times tables" by rote at school, in many cases suffering corporal punishment for failure to grasp and remember. Perhaps it's that which is lacking?
The predilection of many of the modern generation to use text messaging as a major part of communication also seems to have exacerbated the misuse of many words and the BBC's departure from the essential RP requirement for all announcers and newsreaders was a major mistake by the people running things within the corporation. We have all probably heard the sentiment, "Spelling's not important so long as you get the meaning across" and similar phrases perhaps designed to help dunces not to feel too bad about their shortcomings. These things all put together, unfortunately, convey us all ultimately in a race to the bottom as we become inured to bad spelling, poor punctuation and bad grammar.
In days gone by, many people aspiring to self-improvement, particularly if seeking employment within the BBC's television department, took elocution lessons in order to soften, or lose entirely, their local or regional dialect. Frankly, I much prefer news bulletins, particularly if there's grave announcements to be made, to be delivered by someone with a neutral speaking voice that we might guess originates from somewhere within the home counties though not immediately identifiable as from a particular county or town. Some of the BBC continuity announcements lately sound almost comic in their delivery by faceless voices with strong regional accents more suited to ITV.
It seems to be part of some great conspiracy, sometimes known as the dumbing down of society, helped immensely by what we now understand as "Reality TV"........then again, maybe I'm just getting old and crotchety!
Indalo, (AKA V Meldrew)
In Aberdeenshire 'furry boots' are not things worn on your feet in the Winter and 'fit like' doesn't mean you're having a stroke. Ayrshire is where Robert Burns hailed from and his language wasn't really English, some of the words are still used down there yet, even if somewhat more modern sounding these days
Well, Victor ... I can't say that I am at all familiar with ITV. I was raised in the north of England, and my parents arranged for an engineer to remove the ITV button from our television receiver. My education is therefore sadly lacking.
I too had a long career in HM Forces. In the early years, people I met recognised my accent as from the North but when I returned home on leave, my friends thought I talked 'posh' ... funny old life ... innit?
There'a apparently over half a million English people now resident in France (and increasing every year) so maybe that has something to do with it ;-)
And even more French here now, there's 400,000 French people resident in London alone and Kent has many tens of thousands too. London is actually France's sixth biggest city!
French MPs actually canvassed here at their last elections, they couldn't ignore so many votes.
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