The real cost ?

alfazzr

Pedelecer
Jun 7, 2012
80
0
It strikes me that (and this will be nothing new to most of you) that the real cost of an e-bike is in the battery. How many do you see on ebay where they have put it in the shed and forgotten about it like any other bike, only to find the battery has no juice when they come back to it - OK blame them for poor maintenance.

A classic case today elsewhere on the forun where even regularly using it it packs up after 4000 miles.

Lets assume you get a good one and manage the fabled 1000 recharges and on average do that every 15 miles, then that's 15000 miles. For a 36V 10 Ah battery assuming only half a charge is required, thats 180 Wh per charge, but also assuming 10% loss in the charging process then thats 198 kWh of mains power used in its lifetime, at say 12p/kWh for 'leccy then thats £24.

Assuming a battery costs between £200 and £400 we can take an average of £300.

This therefore all equates to 2.2 pence per mile. That compares to about 14.5 p/mile for my car for petrol. If however you get only 4000 miles as Tribalecho reported today that cost shoots to 7.7p/mile, or half the cost of running my car !

Please don't take this as a criticism of e-bikes and tear me to bits - I am still hoping to use mine regularly - but are we kidding ourselves about the savings ?

The most depressing message for me is the cost of batteries and the appalling reliability of every kind of rechargable battery I have ever encountered with the exception of my Philips razor which was amazing for a whole 2 years - then it died !

Just pondering!
Alfazzr
 

benjy_a

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 25, 2009
417
26
The saving is not just in relation to the cost of energy...insurance, tax, mot, servicing and parts cost waaaaay more on a car. My car also clearly uses a lot more fuel than yours returning about 25mpg.

I'm also hoping for a long long life from my new lifepo4 but time will tell!
 

alfazzr

Pedelecer
Jun 7, 2012
80
0
The saving is not just in relation to the cost of energy...insurance, tax, mot, servicing and parts cost waaaaay more on a car. My car also clearly uses a lot more fuel than yours returning about 25mpg.

I'm also hoping for a long long life from my new lifepo4 but time will tell!
I knew that would get raised, but unfortunately even if I cycle to work I will not be able to get rid of the car so will still have those costs :(
 

jerrysimon

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 27, 2009
3,292
112
Cambridge, UK
My DIY battery is 2 and 1/2 years old, has done 3600 miles with around 800 charge cycles. Cost £80.

There are also MANY more reasons to own and use an ebike over and above savings on petrol if you previously did the journey by car.

After over two years of daily commuting it has to be really chucking it down or snowy/icy before I will even consider taking the car to do the same journey.

Ps I did work it out in terms of just petrol, (I have to travel twice as far by car to do the same commute), and the bike paid for itself in around two years.

Oh and on a good run my car does 40m/gal.

Regards

Jerry
 
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amigafan2003

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 12, 2011
1,389
139
Cycling down Blackpool prom on the way home on Tuesday, in the sun and a nice gentle sea breeze I thought to myself "if someone said they'd give me fifty quid to drive home in a car from work today I'd turn them down".

It's not all about how much money you save ;)
 

smudger1956

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2012
519
3
West London
Just to chime in....the best rechargable cell I ever used was the Sanyo SCR Nicad I use to use for RC electric model aircraft, I only decomissioned them in favour of new 'chemistry'.
Still have a few packs I use for other applications, that are over 20 years old.....
 

alfazzr

Pedelecer
Jun 7, 2012
80
0
Hi Smudger1956, funny you should mention Nicads, as I recently purchased a bike with a 24V Heinzmann conversion kit and NiCad battery pack which is not performing. I think it is full of 20 x 7Ah F type NiCd cells. I have seen I can get 20 x 8.5Ah NiCd s from Ebay for around £5 ea with tags so that would mean a re-cell would be about £105 plus labour. I was considering changing to lithium or LiPo but perhaps NiCds are a good solution (if a little/lot heavy).

I always end up spending more by saving money and it seems I will never learn !!!!
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,848
30,402
That just over 7p per mile is a very common figure returned on the better e-bikes on A to B's tests, since they calculate for expected battery life etc. Many e-bikes are worse, some in the past have had over £500 batteries routinely giving up at 300 charges with a range of only 15 miles per charge, so over 11 p per mile for the battery alone.

I agree on small rechargeable batteries and wonder why they are going backwards. The more recent Braun shavers have batteries packing up before two years in my experience, but I have a small rechargeable Braun shaver from the late 1970s which I still regularly use as well, still on it's original batteries and still with many shaves per charge!

Equally I have a portable minidisc recorder with a rechargeable lithium battery from 1992 which still works perfectly and has around 80% of its original playing time.

It makes me wonder if the major disposable battery companies like Duracell/EverReady are playing dirty tricks behind the scenes to ensure today's small rechargeable cells don't last. I can't think of any other reason why they should have gone so far downhill in lifespan over time.
 

Marmotte

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jan 30, 2012
8
0
Ireland
The main reason for me in getting an electric bike was so that I could continue to cycle and get some form of exercise everyday and do the 40km round trip to work. If I drive to work it's 70km round trip via a motorway which has tolls, it takes me about the same amount of time as cycling does and walking at lunchtime would be my only way of getting exercise. I love my bike, even in this horrible windy wet weather!!
 

wurly

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 2, 2008
501
9
Yeovil, Somerset
Pretty sure our first Ping lifepo4 battery is getting near 4 years old. Used nearly every day on my wife's bike. Value for money i reckon..........it refuses to die.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
I used flecc's calculation to compare depreciation comparing a £1100.00 bike with LiMnO2 battery and a £745.00 bike with LifePO4 battery,the difference is considerable
Some claim that the depreciation of an electric bike is relatively lower than that of a conventional bike, l have no evidence to support that claim. However, the old adage 'lf you don’t pay it, you can't lose it'!

There is a regular contributor on the forum Electric Bikes Community - Pedelecs UK - Latest News who has attempted to put a depreciation percentage against the cost price of e-bikes, the replacement cost of the battery is a dominant factory. He has an example of an e-bike costing £1100.00, with LiMn02 replacement battery cost £500.00. His calculations - example 1.

Example 1 - £1100.00 e-bike, LiMn02 battery £500.00 (2 year cycle life)One year old

Purchase price
1,100.00

Battery value (500.00)
Bike value 600.00
25% depreciation (150.00)
Bike value, after 1 year 450.00
Residual value of battery, 50% 250.00
Value of bicycle after 1 year 700.00

Two year old
Purchase price 600.00

35% depreciation (210.00)

Bike value 390.00

Residual value of battery, 0% 000.00

Value of bicycle after 2 years 390.00


Loss over 2 years £710.00 and you are about to face another £500 replacement battery cost.

Using the same formula, the calculation based upon a typical Kudos cycle, purchase cost £745.00, fitted with LiFePO4 battery cost £237.00 - example 2.

Example 2 - £745.00 e-bike, LiFePO4 battery £237.00 (5 year cycle life)One year old

Purchase price
745.00

Battery value (237.00)
Bike value 508.00
25% depreciation (127.00)
Bike value, after 1 year 381.00
Residual value of battery, 50% 189.60
Value of bicycle after 1 year 570.60

Two year old
Purchase price 508.00

35% depreciation (177.80)

Bike value 330.20

Residual value of battery, 0% 142.20

Value of bicycle after 2 years 472.40


Loss over 2 years £272.60 and you still have 3 years left of battery life with a final battery replacement cost of only £237.00.
One effect of Kudos coming into the e-bike market is to make customers aware that they should ask for the price of battery replacement costs at the time of bike purchase and it has made manufacturers aware that they cannot charge unreasonably high prices for replacement batteries.

Dave
Kudoscycles