Throttle use Poll

[Wisper Bikes]

Absolutely Eddie

Our lowest setting just about makes up for the extra weight of an electric bike and sure 120KM would be no problem at all, however on level 7 with the new 17A controller and loads of throttle I would expect 30!

This continues to be a big problem at what level does the industry as a whole quote ranges?

All the best

David

 

[flecc]

This continues to be a big problem at what level does the industry as a whole quote ranges?

Still the best they think they can get away with David!

Seriously, things have improved from the days when many quoted highly theoretical ranges based on powerful 60 kilo riders riding on flat smooth tarmac with rock hard tyres in still air at the speed of optimum electrical efficiency.

 

[JuicyBike]

We did try a range test in a vacuum, but got very disappointing results...

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Maybe this is something we should discuss in BEBA.

 

[aseb]

Agreed, I sometimes check to see how many guests (potential new members) are viewing and I am amazed how many there are and I does not matter personally to me what the overall conclusion is as long as it reflects the true position.

Am I the only person who views the posts without signing in every time?
You don't have to sign unless you are posting....

 

[shemozzle999]

Am I the only person who views the posts without signing in every time?
You don't have to sign unless you are posting....

If thats the case, I would have expected more members to vote but as Flecc said, it takes time as many members only pop in now and then.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

It would have been noce to have more of course, however to have 100 votes really does give a good feel for the way the poll would pan out over larger numbers. The percentages did not change very much after the first twenty or so votes and i would expect that even after 1000 votes we would still be in a very similar position. The poll has already been very useful in my presentations to the DfT and the biking press, this week I will be writing to Norman Baker with the results.

Thanks again and best regards

David

 

[Ptarmigan]

The poll has already been very useful in my presentations to the DfT and the biking press, this week I will be writing to Norman Baker with the results.

I am new to the forum so please excuse me if I am going against forum practice in replying to old threads !

Are representations and/or negotiations still ongoing?
Or did the appeals on behalf of the elderly/infirm/disabled/unfit etcetc. fall on deaf ears ? !
All the dealer websites that I see are still saying 250w is the limit (infact one website says 200w!)
However, if regs. are about to change in the near future that may affect when I buy my first ebike.

Thanks

 

[flecc]

Won't be in the very near future Ptarmigan, and the prospects for more power for the UK are known to be very slim anyway. In fact the current UK law is a limit of 200 watts (EAPC regulations, 1983), but this is widely ignored in favour of the EU 250 watt law which is partially in force anyway via the type approval regulations (2002/EC/24).

There's no doubt that the 250 watts will be fully legalised when we see the new regulations, but an unknown remains about the independent use of throttles. Any change outlawing them will not be retrospective though, existing bikes will be able to carry on with them.

 

[Ptarmigan]

Thanks flecc, I see, I should get on with it, now I understand !

,, I think so this is an unusual case of EU regs. not[/] superceeding nor overruling UK law, how odd !

Just by way of conversation :
>"but an unknown remains about the independent use of throttles. "
Is this in the EU or in the UK ? I mean, do the EUers favour the use and thus we can expect wide ignoring, or is it the EU that may push for disallowing throttles ? iyswim

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Ptarmigan,

Mark Loveridge from Hero Eco and I as representatives of BEBA (The British Electric Bicycle Association) have a meeting in Westminster on the 14th of this month to discuss the implementation of EN15194 in the UK which will include the use of 250W motors. BEBA have been lobbying hard for a couple of years now for the insertion of a clause in UK electric bicycle regulations allowing the use of a full throttle up to 25kph. We believe the use of a throttle further extends the audience for electric bikes and makes cycling even more inclusive.

We have been running a more detailed survey on another thread http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/11248-beba-survey-5.html please go to Electric Bicycle Usage Survey if you would like to take part. Mark and I will be using the results during our meeting with the DfT and will publish on Pedlecs later in November.

Like Flecc, we firmly believe that the 250W motor is safe and we have been assured that if an electric bike is purchased with a throttle and subsequently the laws change to disallow throttles, the law will not be retrospective.

All the best

David

 

[flecc]

so this is an unusual case of EU regs. not[/] superceeding nor overruling UK law, how odd !

I mean, do the EUers favour the use and thus we can expect wide ignoring, or is it the EU that may push for disallowing throttles ?

The legal position is odd, it arises from a legislative disparity. The 1983 UK 200 watt EPAC regulation isn't specifically a construction and use one and isn't for motor vehicles since e-bike law is in the form of an exemption from their laws.

In 2003 the EU motor vehicle construction and use regulation 2002/EC/24 came into force for all member countries with an order to scrap all existing national motor vehicle construction and use legislation (which EPAC wasn't). That detailed an exemption for powered bicycles that complied to the EU's 250 watt pedelec requirements.

That means our UK law requires a 250 watt to be type approved as a moped by the Vehicle Inspectorate, but since that organisation works to 2002/EC/24 which specifically exempts them, they can't comply. Catch 22!

We've lived with this legal mess for nine years with regular promises by the DfT to sort it out, but e-bikes are a very low priority with them. We are hopeful that in about a year this should be sorted, but I've typed that a few times over the last six years!

The EU does not permit any independent throttles on pedelecs and there doesn't appear to be all call for them from other member countries. Therefore we need the DfT to step out of line with the revisions if we are to get e-bike throttles in future. They can do this, probably not with popularity in the EU, but that's a familiar position for this country!

 

[Ptarmigan]

Catch 22!
,,,,,
Therefore we need the DfT to step out of line,,,
They can do this, probably not with popularity in the EU, but that's a familiar position for this country!

Thanks flecc, very interesting,
Oh what a tangled web we weave !
I think I understand !!
Not sure about the DfT stepping out of line for it seems to me that we usually accept, almost by default (or apathy/lack of effort/lack of get up and go) anything from the EU unless it becomes a political cause célèbre to be fought against, eg. like the current extradition /EU arrest warrants stuff.
I dont see electric bikes rising to that level of 'stuff the EU' prominence, so we had better buy our throttles now !!!
Although, being a cynic, I suppose we may be able to continue to buy such bikes for 'off road' use ?

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Ptarmigan,

Mark Loveridge from Hero Eco and I as representatives of BEBA (The British Electric Bicycle Association) have a meeting in Westminster on the 14th of this month to discuss the implementation of EN15194 in the UK

Oooops! I should have said the 19th!

 

[Ptarmigan]

Oooops!

And an Oooops! from me too, when I said about apathy etc. my gaze was firmly fixed on DfT, mandarins and organs of government. I didnt mean to include your goodselves or the Association.
But on re-reading my missive I can see that it might seem that way.
So my apologies if I upset anyone, defo not my intention, carry on the good works and good luck in your efforts to get the ministry to keep our throttles out of the grasp of the EU

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Absolutely no problem Ptarmigan!

I didn't take the post to be anything other than constructive. I do seem to draw a lot of flack from competitors recently and am gradually becoming quite hard skinned so please believe me this is absolutely nothing to worry about!

There are a few of us that make a huge effort to grow electric bike sales in the UK for everyones benefit, mainly BEBA members with support and advice from others on the forum, none of us would take any offense I can assure you.

All the best

David