to the dealers.....was it worth it for you....(redbridge)

[dmcgoldrick]

There's many factors that affect motors' climbing power and there's many types of motor. The ubiquitous and humble Bafang SWX I've seen running at as low as 12 amps max and as high as 18 amps, which makes a huge difference in torque (climbing power). Then you get the much larger Ezee Torq at 20 amps, which has even more torque, and the new generation of bikes with the larger BPM an CST motors like the BH Emotion Neos and Kudos Ariba running at god knows what current (probably around 20amps). These bikes don't compare with a SWX or DD Storck Raddar when it comes to climbing power. The code 17 BPM has masses of torque because it's wound for about 12mph, and it will blitz any Bosch or Panasonic in any climbing contest on hills above 10%. It can go right down to about 4 mph producing very high torque without stalling out. What I'm trying to say is that you can't generalise by motor type (crank vs hub). You can only compare specific motors under specific conditions. All the motors I have mentioned have appeared on bikes with EN 15194 certificates, so you would consider them legal.

thats all good info and explains in some way, why all the ready made bikes vary so much in performance, and why different riders give such varying reports on their own experience of the bikes.
maybe eventually ebikes will appear which have options available on motors that are programable to an individuals requirements and have software options to vary the motors performance 'on the fly', rather than being set up in a very general manner to try and cover all eventualities but failing in many areas where more extreme conditions are encountered.
coming from a non assist cycling and mountain bike background before ebikes i still find a moderate assist level to be adequate as i wish to get exercise when on the bike......but i can understand that some people are looking for high levels of assist for various reasons and i dont think that the bikes available to buy are satisfying those people due to imposed power restrictions and to some extent lack of full optimisation with what is available.
i am still waiting to ride an ebike which is an excellent lightweight unit with a totally silent motor giving instant fast smooth pedelec power and will climb the steepest uk roads at a good speed (10mph?) over a long distance. battery technology also has to come on a long way yet......lighter, more capacity and a constant level of power from full to empty. i just hope the manufacturers are realising that this is what is required to increase sales.
regards

 

[Taff]

Then you get the much larger Ezee Torq at 20 amps, which has even more torque, and the new generation of bikes with the larger BPM an CST motors like the BH Emotion Neos and Kudos Ariba running at god knows what current (probably around 20amps). These bikes don't compare with a SWX or DD Storck Raddar when it comes to climbing power.

D8veh - I'd love it if you could elaborate a little. Are you saying the Storck is better or worse at climbing than a Neo or Arriba?
What's SWX?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

thats all good info and explains in some way, why all the ready made bikes vary so much in performance, and why different riders give such varying reports on their own experience of the bikes.
maybe eventually ebikes will appear which have options available on motors that are programable to an individuals requirements and have software options to vary the motors performance 'on the fly', rather than being set up in a very general manner to try and cover all eventualities but failing in many areas where more extreme conditions are encountered.
coming from a non assist cycling and mountain bike background before ebikes i still find a moderate assist level to be adequate as i wish to get exercise when on the bike......but i can understand that some people are looking for high levels of assist for various reasons and i dont think that the bikes available to buy are satisfying those people due to imposed power restrictions and to some extent lack of full optimisation with what is available.
i am still waiting to ride an ebike which is an excellent lightweight unit with a totally silent motor giving instant fast smooth pedelec power and will climb the steepest uk roads at a good speed (10mph?) over a long distance. battery technology also has to come on a long way yet......lighter, more capacity and a constant level of power from full to empty. i just hope the manufacturers are realising that this is what is required to increase sales.
regards

Apart from the long range, you've just described the Gocycle:
It's quickly re-programmable for power characteristics from pre-configured or customised profiles
It's very light at 16.2kg
It's fairly quiet
Has instant fast smooth power at the touch of a button
Will climb steep hills, but not the steepest ones without pedalling

There's no reason that the technology couldn't be copied to another larger bike with larger battery. Maybe they're working on that.

 

[dmcgoldrick]

Apart from the long range, you've just described the Gocycle:
It's quickly re-programmable for power characteristics from pre-configured or customised profiles
It's very light at 16.2kg
It's fairly quiet
Has instant fast smooth power at the touch of a button
Will climb steep hills, but not the steepest ones without pedalling

There's no reason that the technology couldn't be copied to another larger bike with larger battery. Maybe they're working on that.

....gocycle has a lot of engineering but time will tell if its any good.the first version was not good at all as power was just on or off with a button which had to be constantly held on. no pedelec system involved at all and very short range. i dont think they sold many even in london.......new version will have to be a major change from that........
i was thinking more on the lines of a moulton high quality bike with a featherlight pedelec motor and a rohloff gear hub, stainless steel spaceframe and weighing in around 10kg total.....dream bike......
my converted brompton is under 15 kg.....small range battery and quiet motor...not for longer rides...
storck is 18kg......silent ,instance smooth pedelec power but is found wanting when getting above 12% slopes......so its nearly there. if they upgrade it to 36 v or even maybe 48 v and modify the software it will be getting close to what i am looking for....upgrades are in the pipeline according to storck......
regards

 

[trex]

I wonder how much of the technology seen in the GoCycle G2R is going to be taken up by other manufacturers.

 

[GaRRy]

For me, cyclists should always prefer crank drives.

Nice to know im not a "proper" cyclist then. May be I should go out and get a carbon bike and lycra as well to ensure im a "proper" cyclist. Yes I do feel insulted although I am willing to accept that you probably did not mean it that way.

 

[Taff]

....upgrades are in the pipeline according to storck......
regards

Any idea on what and when?
The 2013 bikes are out.

The Storck is still on my radar

 

[Cyclezee]

From Cyclezee's point of view, it was a worthwhile, enjoyable and friendly event, time will tell if it translates to an increase in business.

It was our first show and bit of learning curve, we did not really know what to expect.

We took only 4 bikes from the range, but we had some very favourable feedback.

People who already own an older generation eZee liked the improvements that have been made.

eZee is a long established electric bike manufacturer with a loyal fan base of owners with bikes up to 8 years old that occasionally buy a new model as well as keeping their existing bike.

Some of those at the event who had never ridden or seen an eZee before seemed a little shy or hesitant about putting 'bums on saddles', but when they did the comments were very positive e.g. "if I hadn't already bought a *******, I would have bought an eZee".
We also had favourable comments from another trader about the quality and performance of the bikes.

Our next event will be at The Eden Project and we will have a bigger selection of bikes for that event, Ken Ching from eZee will also be there.

 

[trex]

Much has been said about the high performance bikes (GoCycle, Haibike, BH Neo, eZee Sprint, Kudos Ariba) - does anyone have anything to say about the cheaper end bikes that were at the show?

 

[Electrifying Cycles]

Am aware of what Storck is planning but not sure if it is public knowledge. If you want a similar bike panasonic hub drive is great 47volt and provides up to an additional 400% from the motor.

 

[jerrysimon]

Did many bring their own DIY conversion ebikes along ?

Jerry

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Having been in the privileged position of having both a Bosch crank drive (Grace MX) and our latest Wisper 905 with the new lower geared, hi torque hub drive (switchable between 14.5A and 17A) to try over the last few months I can honestly say that both drive types have definite advantages and disadvantages.

As most people on the forum know I certainly have, as Dave says, a "has sir been weight lifting" figure and no doubt am behind Flecc's brother's comments! My now daily (since 1st Jan) rides along the north downs in Kent have taught me a lot about the way different systems deliver power. Unfortunately I have not had a chance to properly test the 48V Grace Easy on the same circuit but should be getting it back from the press very soon.

When I started my NYR health drive there was no doubt that although I would finish the circuit more quickly on the Wisper, the MX would assist me further up steeper hills. I had to dismount and push both bikes up the steepest inclines so having the throttle on the 905 to help pull the bike (and me!) up the hills was a great help. I probably should mention when I started my daily rides I was exactly 21 stones! Not at all nicely rounded as Hatti so delicately puts it!

Now, fitter and the weight of the 906Classic lighter, there isn't much difference between the ride times on either bike and I really don't know which I prefer. There is no doubt that when I get back home on the Bosch bike I have enjoyed a far better work out, but need a shower before I am allowed to sit down. The hub drive bike is easier to ride and enables me to cruise a little on the throttle if I feel the need so I complete the journey far less exhausted and smelly!

So not too conclusive at the moment, and I imagine as I lose more weight and become fitter my feelings will continue to change. I think I can sum it up by saying that when going on a longer journey I take the Wisper but a shorter fun ride I would use the MX. It will be interesting to try the 19kg 48V BionX/Sram drive Easy on the same rout when I get it back, I suspect this will be the long distance contender!

All the best

David

 

[Jonah]

Just a couple of comments on some of the topics in this thread. I have just started testing out our rental bikes (Kalkhoff Sahel Compact) on some of the climbs in Simon Warren's books. Started with the 30% hill at Millook last week (near Bude in Cornwall). Such climbs obviously take a bit of rider effort (I'm over 50 and over 100kg) but at no point would I describe it as painful - but it is relatively slow. In comparison, my (slightly illegal) 48v Brompton conversion will fly up virtually anything but that's another matter. My previous Tongxin kit was useless on hills of 15% although our Wisper Alpino can manage 15% hills with quite a lot of user input. Here in North Devon / Cornwall we have a lot of 25% and over hills so this is a very relevant topic to me. Some of Simon Warren's greatest hill climbs aren't that far from the Eden Project so if you're coming down for that you might like to try some of them out on the way down / back. Look forward to seeing some of you there.

 

[Deleted member 4366]

D8veh - I'd love it if you could elaborate a little. Are you saying the Storck is better or worse at climbing than a Neo or Arriba?
What's SWX?

The Storck I tried when they first came out was not very powerful. It was about the same as a Bafang SWX, which is the standard 250w Chinese motor that you find on most sub £1000 bikes.

 

[dmcgoldrick]

Any idea on what and when?
The 2013 bikes are out.

The Storck is still on my radar

taff, the very latest is that developments will not appear on this years bikes.......maybe a taster at the eurobike show in august but no guarantee of that.....
there are no mods which can be made to existing system to tweak it, so will have to wait and see......
i will be looking next at the grace bikes from wisper as soon as test bikes are readily available.....the storck remains my bike of choice until something significantly better comes along...
regards

 

[dmcgoldrick]

The Storck I tried when they first came out was not very powerful. It was about the same as a Bafang SWX, which is the standard 250w Chinese motor that you find on most sub £1000 bikes.

here we go again.........lets be clear...the motor on the stork is nothing like the chinese motors. i have bikes with chinese, japanese, and swiss motors......the swiss motor is just in a different class.
firstly its completely silent.........
second it has completely smooth instant acceleration.....
thirdly , running on 25v compared with chinese at 36v, it gives at least equal power performance uphill.

i think you will find that all the storck owners think the bikes are great......

regards

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I was only comparing the power in answer to the question.

 

[jackhandy]

Some of Simon Warren's greatest hill climbs aren't that far from the Eden Project so if you're coming down for that you might like to try some of them out on the way down / back. Look forward to seeing some of you there.

If you are coming to Eden, I can find you a couple of Stonking Ups, within a few miles

 

[Taff]

taff, the very latest is that developments will not appear on this years bikes.......maybe a taster at the eurobike show in august but no guarantee of that.....
there are no mods which can be made to existing system to tweak it, so will have to wait and see......
i will be looking next at the grace bikes from wisper as soon as test bikes are readily available.....the storck remains my bike of choice until something significantly better comes along...
regards

If they produced a 'bigger/improved battery' then that would tweak the system I guess.
I've just posted a new thread with a question about this actually.

 

[dmcgoldrick]

If they produced a 'bigger/improved battery' then that would tweak the system I guess.
I've just posted a new thread with a question about this actually.

unfortunately taff, if it was as simple as that it would already be done....