Tongsheng TSDZ2 review and build tips.

FrodoBaggins

Pedelecer
Jun 2, 2017
70
25
46
West Yorkshire
Hey All

This is a great thread, I should have read this before. I bought a TSDZ2 and the plan was also to get a Bafang for my other bike. In the end I bought 2 Tongshengs as they are so cool.

As I have 2 bikes it might help people even more (1 whyte hybrid and a Boardman 8 year old mtb) Both have 48V 500W motors
A couple of random points that echo most on here:

I got the kits from Ali Express, they were about £300 and arrived in under 2 weeks, no stress, no taxes or customs charges. All worked perfect out of the box.

The hybrid goes for miles on a 17.5Ah battery. Seriously one charge could do 100 miles if you cycle a bit.
As a normal bike I much prefer the Whyte but as an ebike I much prefer the MTB boardman.

I feel these are better on a mtb. The fatter tyres, that are annoying on a road are fairly irrelevant once converted More stable and hydraulic brakes are a must for me too.
I would love to convert a 29er. I think this would be perfect, if you can find one that fits the bill then go for it.

Installation was the same as most. Just re-route your gear cables, its just quicker and easier and actually gives you chance to sort them out if they are worn.
Get a new cassette and chain, once again they are not that expensive and just solve a tonne of hassle.

I used an old chair leg and seat post to tighten things, massive amount of torque and seems to hold things in place well.

I ditched most of the stuff, like the throttle and the lights and brake sensors. It looks like a nice clean build then.

But the biggy is the OSF (open source firmware) if you are not IT savvy or technically minded it might be a challenge. But its not total rocket science and quite good fun to do.
I have kept the display and VLC5 and just tweak the motor settings. Once you have it right then you dont really need to touch it much.

My mate has a £3000 Bosch thing. He previously had more climbing power, and accelaration on big hills, but my battery can outlast his by at least 20 miles if not more. That is on stock

Put the OSF on and get it right. See you later mate on the Bosch!
The cool thing is that you can switch between legal and not legal. I am not a speed freak and am careful where I set what.
But our rides are usually in the middle of nowhere, so just putting the motor assist speed to 20 mph and opening it up to use the full 500W annoys the hell out of him. :) My battery still outlasts his too!

The stock is still on the hybrid and I havent touched it since. Although it is line to be done!
I also have a Yose power rear hub, but that is pathetic compared to this.

All in all I love these. I can probably say that I have built the first one for £850 and as I re-use the battery the second one has only cost me £300 - £400 as the bike was just gathering dust.

I might do some videos and thread on the OSF at some point if anyone is interested.
 

gfmoore

Finding my (electric) wheels
May 9, 2021
7
5
Hi everyone, I'm in need of a bot of help, advice and encouragement as I am feeling a bit depressed over my Tongshen DSZ2 ebike conversion.

Sorry, it's a bit of a story: After a lot of hassle in getting the motor and battery from a company on Aliexpress my motor arrived after about 5 weeks. But the battery didn't. I think they forgot to arrange it. Anyway, to stay legal and keep my costs down as I'm currently unemployed/redundant I went for a 250W 36v motor and 10ah battery. I figured that if I liked it I would invest in a bigger battery, but I don't go that far anyway. But the hills around Stoke kill me. I'm 5ft 10 and 115kg.

I decided to cancel my battery and went for a 48v one...and then the 36v one arrived - doh.

Anyway was about to fit the 48v, but decided to check and it seems I might burn out the controller, so fitted the 36volt one instead. I also bought a 500c display, even though an 850c display came with motor, but that's a bit big and in the way of my Karoo!!

So fitted it all up, put it on a static trainer and turned on and all seemed ok. As I went through the assist levels there seemed to be some effect, so went for a ride and wondered if it was really working? I'd heard the expression; it's like having bionic legs. I certainly didn't feel that going up a moderate hill. It must have helped but it didn't feel right. Strangely I did feel the motor kick in momentarily on the left down stroke of the pedal, but only occasionally. I was shattered by the time I got home. I did try different assist levels. The motor did kick in from a starting position.

Am I perhaps too heavy for the motor? Is it broke? Can I use the 48v battery, there is a setting in the 500c controller for 48v?

Or have I made a costly mistake and expected too much?

Gordon
 
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vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
9,822
3,989
Basildon
It's possible that you didn't fit the speed sensor correctly. Check it to make sure that the gap is right. The 36v battery should give you more than enough assistance. You're not too heavy for it. Don't let the pedal speed drop too low. Use a lower gear to pedal faster.
 
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gfmoore

Finding my (electric) wheels
May 9, 2021
7
5
I'll check that, though I was seeing the speedo work ok. What cadence are you suggesting? And thanks for replying :)
 

vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
9,822
3,989
Basildon
I'll check that, though I was seeing the speedo work ok. What cadence are you suggesting? And thanks for replying :)
Lower than 40 is bad. 60 rpm is ideal. 75 rpm is max.

The 48v version has a lower KV than the 36v one. You can use the 36v one at 48v with a 48v controller or the open source firmware, but it will spin the cranks 33% faster, so those figures above become 50 rpm, 80 rpm and 100 rpm, which some people prefer.
 
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gfmoore

Finding my (electric) wheels
May 9, 2021
7
5
Well I checked the speedo, swapped over the head unit to the 850C it came with and checked the settings. Only one that needed changing was to a 26 inch wheel. On the static trainer seemed to be doing things and making a noise. Went for a ride and getting up the first hill was so hard. It wasn't helping me that I could sense. There was that pull when I started from a stop then couldn't feel anything even when pedalling quite fast (for me), spinning even. There wasn't even that sudden pull that I had yesterday with the 500C head unit. I felt I was taking the bike up the incline. Really fed up. :(

A friend told me there's a (fairly) local guy who does e-bikes. Guess I need to take it to him for a check out.

It's just when you don't know what you should expect. I thought, yes, I'd have to make some effort (minimal?) to get up the hills, but this is just as bad/hard as without the motor. That can't be right.
 
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vfr400

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 12, 2011
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Basildon
If you pedal too fast, you get no power. You have to pedal at 60 rpm with the standard 36v version. There is no power after 75 rpm, so if you pedal at that speed, you get nothing. How fast do you pedal?
 
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peter.c

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 24, 2018
1,611
492
thurrock essex
The 36v will not work at 48v ,a bafang 500c will not work at all well unless it is set up flashed with the tsdz2 firmware
The kit needs to be fitted as supplied motor and display from the same kit, is it eco cycles version or recycles version with the 850c copy ?
Drive is only given in proportion to your effort level 1 eco is 30%max top level is 300% assist but it will require a lot of human effort to reach that
Have you a throttle
NOTHING THATS IS NOT IN THE KIT AS SUPPLIED ON A TSDZ2 IS PLUG AND PLAY and its fragile sorry to shout
 
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peter.c

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 24, 2018
1,611
492
thurrock essex
PS if the 15.5 speed limiter is on its got a very short assist period before motor cuts out
Things get better with the open source program
 

gfmoore

Finding my (electric) wheels
May 9, 2021
7
5
Thank you all for your comments. Thanks for the clarification on the battery and the 500C. Now I have fitted the 850C and it isn't as bad as I thought given that I had to move a few things on the cockpit (btw why does the little controller come with such as small attachment ring when the main display has decent sized rings? weird. (For a road bike).

Re my cadence, looking at my first test ride with the motor my cadence when pedalling averages high 50s. Possibly a little low, but it was quite a hilly terrain.

I don't know what version of the 850C it is, it's what OKfeet (The Aliexpress company) sent. Is there a way I can check. edit, It flashes up and shows up Green Pedal?? (At the bottom of the display)

I don't think the 15mph limiter is on (whilst I test of course!!)

I am prepared to try the open source route, I have the electronics, but I wanted to see what it would be like first before I do anything that might invalidate my warranty.

Anyway I'm booking an appointment and we'll see what the "man" says. It will probably be at least a week or so, but I will try to post an update.
 
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gfmoore

Finding my (electric) wheels
May 9, 2021
7
5
I just noticed a couple of settings that perhaps someone could look at. I have only touched the speed limit.
42945

Oops sorry don't know how to limit the size.
 

gfmoore

Finding my (electric) wheels
May 9, 2021
7
5
Well, I think I might have cracked it. I started down the firmware route and since I now have a 48volt motor flashed the motor with 48volt stock firmware. Whilst going through various bit that I'd ordered for this project over the last couple of months I noticed that I had thumb controller. I had noted that I had a cable from the motor to the controller that split into a three pin julet? connector. I wondered if this might have been for a brake control, but had been told by the seller (China) that the controller 850c didn't support a brake. I wondered if the thumb controller had come with the 500c controller. (Which I'm not sure is true, but I don't know how to connect a brake sensor (which I have.)

Anyhow I noted whilst reading threads on flashing firmware that some motors came with cables that supported a thumb controller.

I decided to take a chance and plugged it in. Bam suddenly when I pressed it there was all this amazing power.

Now I need to test it on the road, BUT I'm hopefull :)

I have a number of questions though.

First I have no idea how I'm going to attach it to the handlebar of my road bike, the hole is small, I assume for a mtb?

Is there a hack where I don't need it?

I also noted another thing on the battery. The on-off switch is for a USB socket, so there is no isolator switch. Can someone suggest an appropriate switch and connector combo (with link perhaps).

My next move will be to try and understand how to flash the 850c so I can use the open firmware (mbrusa et al)

A side effect of all this is that to get more room I ended up doing a shed spring clean. Every cloud...

Thanks

Ps the man who I was going to see doesn't touch self builds...
 
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gfmoore

Finding my (electric) wheels
May 9, 2021
7
5
Just in case anyone finds this thread. I took the plunge and went for the Open Source Firmware and wired up the usb interfaces (hoping I wouldn't put 48volts onto the wrong pin on the display...) Anyway got mbrusa's open source firmware loaded on the motor and display. The torque now works, the throttle not so good. I'm still playing with the settings and hopeful that I will get the throttle running properly eventually, but to be honest if I put the bike in mtb mode (mountain bike?) it does what I need, fast take off and power up the hills, the rest is up to me :)

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1666528#p1666528

Edit: I don't know why I said that the display I originally tried was a 500c display, it was actually a 560c display. Haven't tried it since and will sell it on ebay, the 850c is okay
 

KeithMac

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 20, 2016
344
255
24
York
I did a TSDZ2 conversation as well, left it bone stock and with 36v 15ah battery it rides great.

The Nuvinci 360 hub is well suited to the TSDZ2.

20210727_081737.jpg
 

Andy Vickers

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jun 28, 2020
22
0
57
Hello. Thought I'd post my build too.
Taken me forever to finish as I got a frozen shoulder landscaping my garden.

Only thing I don't like is the ridiculously long cable between 850c down to the motor. As the cable out of the 850c is about 1m and the extension to the motor is another 1m.

Is there a shorter adapter cable between the 6 pin and 8 pin?.
500w TSDZ2 48v with 850c
Carrera Vengeance
Battery is UPP 48v 12.5 Panasonic

Not dared flash anything but have sorted out the speed etc in the 850c and the wheel size finally (set at 27 as I don't have a choice of 27.5)
Cheers
Andy
 

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peter.c

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 24, 2018
1,611
492
thurrock essex
No off the peg cable that worked:mad: eventually cut the display cable about 2 inches from the plug removed the excess re-joined colour to colour - solder -heat shrink - then another heat shrink over the cable length its a pain but but the quickest way with out guessing pin connection in the moulded plug
Ps does the watt meter work in the newer versions
 
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Andy Vickers

Finding my (electric) wheels
Jun 28, 2020
22
0
57
No off the peg cable that worked:mad: eventually cut the display cable about 2 inches from the plug removed the excess re-joined colour to colour - solder -heat shrink - then another heat shrink over the cable length its a pain but but the quickest way with out guessing pin connection in the moulded plug
Ps does the watt meter work in the newer versions
I'm not sure. It all seems to be working.
I've had it over 16 months so not sure it constitutes new ..Took a while to get on with it.

I've coiled up the excess and its neatly sat in a cut piece of inner tube and is under the screen. Looks quite neat I suppose
 

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peter.c

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 24, 2018
1,611
492
thurrock essex
Every body hates the excess cable but its a one size fits all solution
Often use the smallest saddle bag under the handle bars these have the advantage of a zip for quick access and hide many sins:rolleyes:
 

OrdnanceAnt

Just Joined
Jul 1, 2022
3
1
Hi really useful mini guide. I was thinking of getting a new Carrera mountain bike (Kraken or Vulcan) and fitting this motor but unsure now considering some of your tips and the Carrera Crossfire 3 is probably a better option as it is a Hybrid.

For the cables routed under the bottom bracket any advice on clips or guides that can be mounted to the frame if they need to be re-routed?
 
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OrdnanceAnt

Just Joined
Jul 1, 2022
3
1
Hi Pendant Peddler,

Thanks for sharing and looking to fit the motor onto a newer version of the Carrera Kraken potentially. As per the original OPs guide and comments did you have any issues with the cable routing under the bottom bracket, or the motor housing coming close to the rear going to say chain stays if that is the correct term as they spread out more on a mountain bike?

Thanks,
Ant