Two boys die in "ebike" accident: Cardiff riot broke out after 'police prevented parents seeing fatal crash victims', close relative says

Tony1951

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Mar 27, 2016
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More utter nonsense.

The rider knew he had lost the police tail even before he reached the barrier, when the van turned off the barriered street.

As said, he was no longer under any pressure of any sort when he went though the barrier and into another street with no police following or in sight.

To say the rider would be "sh1t1ng himself" after losing the tail is even greater nonsense, especially since we know how hardened he was in regard to the police, given his extensive history with them.

I'm not against the principle of some of the things you are saying, indeed I go much further and think police road chases should not be allowed at all under most circumstances, since there are more intelligent and much safer ways of handling such situations.

But how policing is carried out is not under the control of the police, it's dictated by the Home Office who are in charge of policing policy. So it's only through the politicians that such changes can be effected. Given the way the public are forever demanding more enforcement and harder sentencing, there's little chance of such a change.

You call the police bullies, but in effect that is what they are taught to be as a matter of policy. At Hendon here in London we have by far the largest police training school in the country, regularly having military style passing out parades on completion of training, emphasising their para-military nature since the the changes wrought by Thatcher in the 1980s.

A major part of that training is that the police have to take command of any situation, enforcing that command and control as necessary, which of course includes physical force. That is the bullying of which you speak, restraint which has killed a number of people being arrested or when in custody.

As said above, these matters can only be changed through political action, the police are powerless to change them.

There have been attempts at change, "fast tracking" being a notable example in London. Under this Home Office policy, university graduates were being recruited to the police with the promise of fast promotion, the aim being to considerably improve the intellectual ability of police officers.

It's had limited success though and one notorious failure. It all amounts to something obvious, policing is not just difficult, it's impossible to do to everyone's satisfaction.
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Well said. Thank you to you and a very few other posters showing common sense here in this thread.

Yours is one of a few sensible responses to the death of these hooligans. The streets of many cities are blighted by out of control youth who act with absolute impunity. They acted recklessly and paid the price. NO police were anywhere near them when they crashed. The police have a duty to tackle hooliganism and crime. The limp wristed, permissive response to law breaking yobs demanded by many in this thread disgusts me. It is the reason that life in many cities in this country verges on being an intolerable Hell where yobs make everyone else suffer.
 

Az.

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Apr 27, 2022
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On a lighter note, I plan on hotwiring one of these pussy scooters with my portable 72V battery in the morning.

View attachment 51827
Now it is easier to understand why you don't want police to stop owners of dangerous illegal vehicles...

Please make sure you wear helmet, knee and elbow pads and don't panic when you see police van.
 
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Chainmale

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May 13, 2020
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There is no knowing how much the encounter with the Police van prior to the incident contributed to the tragedy. It is all too easy misjudge negotiating a narrow gap, especially at speed, and come to grief.
 
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The Silverfox

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Oct 13, 2021
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Cardiff, UK
I find it more than a little disturbing that this thread is no longer focusing on the fact that two kids died, rather it's turned in to a daily mail sh1tsh1w

You destroy the family for living in the wrong side of town, in poverty, having run ins with the cops, kids being 'known' etc., the validity of which we'll never know, and you justify that - for what possible reason? 'Ya, he was riding an illegal bike, it's ok if they die...'
“living in the wrong side of town, in poverty”. Give me a break. How can you say they live in poverty when the parents bought him a £4000 bike?

I agree nobody deserves to lose their life just for riding a bike illegally. That would be pertinent had they been killed by somebody for doing so but they weren’t. I know you and others think the police had a hand in it by following them but they could have easily pulled over instead of going on a dangerous joy-ride which ultimately resulted in their death.

I feel sorry for the boys because their parents let them down. They are the ones that need to take responsibility.
 

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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There is no knowing how much the encounter with the Police van prior to the incident contributed to the tragedy. It is all too easy misjudge negotiating a narrow gap, especially at speed, and come to grief.
If you look at the aerial ,map of where the incident took place, the lamp post is about 100m from the bollards, 300 m from where the police van turned off Stanway Road. I can't see how the police could have guessed where the boys would be heading when they stopped following the boys.
It was an unfortunate accident. Best leave it at that.

Bing Maps - Directions, trip planning, traffic cameras & more
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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To take command of a situation you first need some authority (or you will be ignored), then you need to be able to articulate your pov which unfortunately is where the cops fall down, apart from being shouty and threatening they're not know for the comms, conversation or debating skills.
Agreed, and in line with what I posted, and why I mentioned the attempt at a solution with "fast tracking" to get more suitable recruits.
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Risk is assessed more rationally when prefrontal lobes fully develop aged 25. Children fear irrationally.
And are arrogant and elated irrationally, such as when they think they have successfully lost a police tail with the police forced to turn off.

Combine your post and my response and we have what is called balance, something so sadly lacking in this thread.
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The Silverfox

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Oct 13, 2021
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Cardiff, UK
I was out for a ride yesterday on a pedestrian/cycle path, nice weather with lots of people out walking. I saw in the distance a bike coming towards me and pedestrians scattering as it sped along at quite a speed down the middle of the path. When it got close to me I could see it was an electric bike with two youths, probably around 15 or 16, one with a full face balaclava, two up on a single seater. They swerved towards me as they approached and the pillion passenger stuck his foot out but didn't make contact then shouted something intelligible.

This was about 15 miles from where the fatal crash with the two boys happened. Lessons learned? No.
 
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portals

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Jul 15, 2022
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Well said. Thank you to you and a very few other posters showing common sense here in this thread.

Yours is one of a few sensible responses to the death of these hooligans. The streets of many cities are blighted by out of control youth who act with absolute impunity. They acted recklessly and paid the price. NO police were anywhere near them when they crashed. The police have a duty to tackle hooliganism and crime. The limp wristed, permissive response to law breaking yobs demanded by many in this thread disgusts me. It is the reason that life in many cities in this country verges on being an intolerable Hell where yobs make everyone else suffer.
Wow, you really are Mr Dail Mail personified....nothing like throwing in a bit of homophobia to make your point...
 
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Artstu

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Aug 2, 2009
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It is how the community responded that I find the most disconcerting, for me it conjures up an imagine of a lawless ghetto where lawbreaking is seen as normal and acceptable, and this attitude is spreading throughout the country.

I don't think I've seen any discussion here about the burning of innocent peoples cars and the rioting that took place, I find it depressing to see society breaking down like it is.
 

jimriley

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Jun 17, 2020
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I hate bullies, have done since as far back as I can remember, it has gotten me in to more trouble in this life than anything else. Cops are bullies of the worst kind, they are not only bullies but corrupt bullies that have been given powers and a license to wreck lives on a daily basis. The majority of them are morons.

Power, Corruption and Lies, not only a cracking album by New Order back in the day but did you know that the cops use to use that slogan to recruit?

Well I think we know the facts with regards to the crash, it will depend how the lawyers / CPS want to proceed.

Will they go after the parents for negligence / manslaughter?

Will they go after the cops who are effectively the root cause of the crash?

Will they do feck all cos 'Bank Holiday comes 6 times a year.'?
If not the police, how do you propose we maintain order? What would you say, if, instead of culling themselves, they had run over a child while taking a short cut on a pavement.
 
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AndyBike

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Nov 8, 2020
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What would you say, if,
If...if...if...if...if...if
You can justify anything with 'if' but of course none if these imagined examples have happened, so its pointless bringing them into it.

nothing like throwing in a bit of homophobia to make your point...
Nonsense, the context of that comment was clearly about weak sensibilities.
 

lenny

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May 3, 2023
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" “It was faster than they normally go round here. If you’re coming round that corner – no lights and no sirens – how do I know you’re there?

“What happens if I had been crossing the road at that exact point?

“Minutes later I heard about a crash, but I didn’t put two and two together. What were the police chasing them for?” "

 
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