Using electrically-assisted bikes: lazy cheaters or healthy travellers?

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
2,312
lose their pension
Garbage peddled by coppers to a gullible public.

A copper who is sacked loses the right to contribute any further to his pension and, in exceptional circumstances, can lose a proportion of the benefits, but never the whole lot.

The case of PC Maurice Allen of Durham Police is instructive.

He was caught selling guns from the police property store to the public, convicted of misconduct in public office and sacked.

The police authority removed 65 per cent of his pension - the maximum allowed.

Allen appealed, and he got all but 25 per cent of it back.

Bottom line was he was left with a lump sum of £40,000 and about £1,200 a month for life - that's a 'punishment' most of us could live with.

Happily there are very few bent coppers, and even fewer who are caught, so cases like Allen's are rare.

Shamed cop who sold guns handed in by public will get £40k payoff and £15k-a-year pension - Mirror Online
 

funkylyn

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 22, 2011
3,172
27
South Shields, Tyne & Wear
Garbage peddled by coppers to a gullible public.

A copper who is sacked loses the right to contribute any further to his pension and, in exceptional circumstances, can lose a proportion of the benefits, but never the whole lot.

The case of PC Maurice Allen of Durham Police is instructive.

He was caught selling guns from the police property store to the public, convicted of misconduct in public office and sacked.

The police authority removed 65 per cent of his pension - the maximum allowed.

Allen appealed, and he got all but 25 per cent of it back.

Bottom line was he was left with a lump sum of £40,000 and about £1,200 a month for life - that's a 'punishment' most of us could live with.

Happily there are very few bent coppers, and even fewer who are caught, so cases like Allen's are rare.

Shamed cop who sold guns handed in by public will get £40k payoff and £15k-a-year pension - Mirror Online
Good God......now THAT is what I would call a 'terrifying prospect'.......

Lynda :)
 

50 Hertz

Pedelecer
Mar 6, 2013
172
2
Garbage peddled by coppers to a gullible public.

A copper who is sacked loses the right to contribute any further to his pension and, in exceptional circumstances, can lose a proportion of the benefits, but never the whole lot.

The case of PC Maurice Allen of Durham Police is instructive.

He was caught selling guns from the police property store to the public, convicted of misconduct in public office and sacked.

The police authority removed 65 per cent of his pension - the maximum allowed.

Allen appealed, and he got all but 25 per cent of it back.

Bottom line was he was left with a lump sum of £40,000 and about £1,200 a month for life - that's a 'punishment' most of us could live with.

Happily there are very few bent coppers, and even fewer who are caught, so cases like Allen's are rare.

Shamed cop who sold guns handed in by public will get £40k payoff and £15k-a-year pension - Mirror Online
Disgusting. He should have lost the 65% or preferably, the whole lot.

I don't know if the above is the exception to the rule, the general situation or the press on a mischievous mission. The cops that I have spoken to seem to be genuinely of the opinion that they will lose their pension benefits if they are fired. I don't think they were putting out propaganda, it wasn't that type of relationship and they had no need to do that. Maybe they were misinformed and the Mirror article is true. Quite shocking if it is true, but it still doesn't make 'em all bad.
 
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50 Hertz

Pedelecer
Mar 6, 2013
172
2
It's a shame you can't "block" seeing posts of certain people on this forum. I'm not willing to read another word of 50Hertz's insulting posts. Frankly, I am gobsmacked what he writes and the way he writes it is tolerated. Switched off his reply to my post after a couple of lines as all I could glaze over was insults and abuse. Simply not worth even talking to a person like this and not interested in justifying my comments or views to someone of that character either.

Legal enforcement extends beyond the police force to the court system by the way ... one of the most inefficient organizations I've come across in recent years. Can't believe we're all paying for that either.

I haven't read such a diatribe of complete misguided rubbish by such an abuse character for a very long time (well - since the last outburst of his / hers actually) and I can do without the unpleasantness in my life... which is richer in the absence of interactions with individuals of that ilk. Thankfully one has the choice to switch off - so I am doing just that.
Oh I think that you read every last word of my post.

Reading your response is like standing in a featureless bathroom listineng to a booming toilet voice chanting, "witness the poverty of his expression."

Good night, sleep tight and in your dreams may you be made love to by a giant rampent fire horse.

I mean you no harm, but if you are going to have a pop at an entire profession and accuse them all of dishonesty and corruption, be prepared for people to react to that and be ready substantiate your claims.

Request a suspension or a ban for me if you wish, I would be upset to leave the forum, but I'd accept it if that was deemed appropriate. Also, I would hate to think that I had driven you away, you post some nice stuff which I like to read. But the things that you have written about the police aren't nice and they are unfair, so I will challenge you robustly over that.
 
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ghouluk

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 11, 2013
329
11
Disgusting. He should have lost the 65% or preferably, the whole lot.

I don't know if the above is the exception to the rule, the general situation or the press on a mischievous mission. The cops that I have spoken to seem to be genuinely of the opinion that they will lose their pension benefits if they are fired. I don't think they were putting out propaganda, it wasn't that type of relationship and they had no need to do that. Maybe they were misinformed and the Mirror article is true. Quite shocking if it is true, but it still doesn't make 'em all bad.
"Regulation K5 of the Police Pension Regulations allows forfeiture in the event of you being convicted of
Treason or for an offence which involved the abuse of your position as a police officer or bringing the Service into disrepute. The final decision rests with the police authority and can be forfeited in whole or in part, permanently or temporarily. (Normally the MPA leaves you with at least 30%)"

looks like everyone is right - i found this in the documents on a met retirement site, so suspect its right, you can lose pension but normally won't.

as an aside, Whilst out on my bike over the weekend, riding in jeans, hoodie and some downhill boots, i road past three policeman, none of whom stopped me - my wife (who is a person of colour) also rode past them and also wasn't stopped. The teenager i overtook on a bmx (satisfying having gear AND a motor :) ) was also not stopped. Therefore anecdotally, we now have a stop rate of (1) and a non stop rate of (3) with a control for age, sex and ethnicity, this is an acceptable average i'd say even if no one else on the forum rode past a policeman (or woman) recently :)

seriously guys, its an interesting discussion, but it doesn't need to be taken personally.

finally having lived and worked all over the world, I'd agree our police are among the best in the world to deal with, from my perspective this is at least partially because they don't carry guns normally, and hence learn to defuse situations rather than provoke them - same cannot be said about police in the USA for example. I'd rather have a lower detection and efficiency rate, and less "false positives" than sacrifice the freedoms that we all enjoy.
 

103Alex1

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2012
2,228
67
Eureka ... Just found this ...

"Can I block posts, emails and messages from specific users?

If there are particular members that bother you and you do not want to see their posts or receive Private Messages and Emails from them, then you can add these members to your 'Ignore List'. There are several ways to do this:

Through your User Control Panel: User CP, Settings & Options, Edit Ignore List. Then, type their name into the empty text box and click 'Okay'."


It does work. Unfortunately posts quoted are still visible but it's a start. If anyone wants to block me I hope the above guidance will help enrich your browsing experience. I'm hoping it will help salvage mine.
 

50 Hertz

Pedelecer
Mar 6, 2013
172
2
Eureka ... Just found this ...

"Can I block posts, emails and messages from specific users?

If there are particular members that bother you and you do not want to see their posts or receive Private Messages and Emails from them, then you can add these members to your 'Ignore List'. There are several ways to do this:

Through your User Control Panel: User CP, Settings & Options, Edit Ignore List. Then, type their name into the empty text box and click 'Okay'."


It does work. Unfortunately posts quoted are still visible but it's a start. If anyone wants to block me I hope the above guidance will help enrich your browsing experience. I'm hoping it will help salvage mine.
It's a bit like dressing up in a Zebra suit in order to hide from a lion. :p
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
2,312
Disgusting. He should have lost the 65% or preferably, the whole lot.

I don't know if the above is the exception to the rule, the general situation or the press on a mischievous mission. The cops that I have spoken to seem to be genuinely of the opinion that they will lose their pension benefits if they are fired. I don't think they were putting out propaganda, it wasn't that type of relationship and they had no need to do that. Maybe they were misinformed and the Mirror article is true. Quite shocking if it is true, but it still doesn't make 'em all bad.
It is rare for a police authority to attempt to take a proportion of the pension, partly because it's so difficult to make the order stick.

Coppers, particularly bent ones, are skilled hook wrigglers.

There was a similar case involving a thoroughly bent inspector in Scotland who appealed the reduction - I lost track of that one.

Another thing these cases do is highlight the absurdly lavish police pension.

I know a detective constable who is about to retire.

He will get £100K+ paid into his bank account on the day he goes and £1,600 a month.

He is 53.

To be fair, those are the benefits he signed up for, but it's no wonder the country cannot afford to employ any coppers when retired ones are getting so much.

The other point is the waste of resources, I regard my acquaintance as a skilled detective and in his working prime.

He has been trained/gained his experience at some cost to the public purse, yet we are now going to pay him tens, maybe hundreds, of thousands to sit at home on his backside.
 

103Alex1

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2012
2,228
67
.... a test run of the ignore member function has just been very refreshing by the way (wish I'd found it before).... for me like a watered down version of the relief I expect you'd feel after cutting contact with a compulsively abusive partner. However much credence you may have given to some aspects of that person's views or actions, their repeated inability to stay on an acceptable side of the line in their behaviour towards you and others means the appropriate thing to do is put barriers up.

As I have stated before, I don't accept being subjected to personal abuse on forums (especially from people I have never met) on the basis of my expressed views or opinions which I am entitled to hold and express as much as the next person. So if there is no active moderation of that then I guess the next best thing is user block. What is said about me on or off forum is of no concern to me (it may bother others what is said about them in which case there's a report escalation process I gather), but I am not reading or responding to personal abuse - that is unacceptable. Period.
 
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50 Hertz

Pedelecer
Mar 6, 2013
172
2
Another thing these cases do is highlight the absurdly lavish police pension.

I know a detective constable who is about to retire.

He will get £100K+ paid into his bank account on the day he goes and £1,600 a month.

He is 53.

To be fair, those are the benefits he signed up for, but it's no wonder the country cannot afford to employ any coppers when retired ones are getting so much.

The other point is the waste of resources, I regard my acquaintance as a skilled detective and in his working prime.

He has been trained/gained his experience at some cost to the public purse, yet we are now going to pay him tens, maybe hundreds, of thousands to sit at home on his backside.
I know of a Chief Superintendent who joined as a cadet and retired just short of his 49th birthday. He disclosed that his monthly pension was more than a PCs wage and that was after he had commuted over £200000.00 as a tax free lump sum.

I agree, it doesn't seem right, but who wouldn't take it if it was contractually correct? I think the government are trying to address the situation by introducing a career average scheme as opposed to the generous, final salary benefits. A bit of a bitter pill if you are only months away from retirement?
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
2,312
I know of a Chief Superintendent who joined as a cadet and retired just short of his 49th birthday. He disclosed that his monthly pension was more than a PCs wage and that was after he had commuted over £200000.00 as a tax free lump sum.

I agree, it doesn't seem right, but who wouldn't take it if it was contractually correct? I think the government are trying to address the situation by introducing a career average scheme as opposed to the generous, final salary benefits. A bit of a bitter pill if you are only months away from retirement?
I wasn't going to mention higher ranks because the figures are barely believable.

Around £200K as a lump and £2K+ a month for some.

A lot of them take paid work as well - greedy barstewards.

As you say, conditions are not so generous for those who started more recently.

I think we are now seeing the last of the solid gold generation retiring - the current lot are just gold plated.
 

funkylyn

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 22, 2011
3,172
27
South Shields, Tyne & Wear
Oh I think that you read every last word of my post.

Reading your response is like standing in a featureless bathroom listineng to a booming toilet voice chanting, "witness the poverty of his expression."

Good night, sleep tight and in your dreams may you be made love to by a giant rampent fire horse.

I mean you no harm, but if you are going to have a pop at an entire profession and accuse them all of dishonesty and corruption, be prepared for people to react to that and be ready substantiate your claims.

Request a suspension or a ban for me if you wish, I would be upset to leave the forum, but I'd accept it if that was deemed appropriate. Also, I would hate to think that I had driven you away, you post some nice stuff which I like to read. But the things that you have written about the police aren't nice and they are unfair, so I will challenge you robustly over that.
Is it really worth "challenging someone robustly" when it so obviously causes upset and ill feeling ?

We all have strong feelings about various topics but sometimes its true that responses and language can be just a bit "rough".

We also mostly, I think , agree with some opinions of an individual and disagree with others, so why upset each other by taking some responses to the edge with cutting, hurtful comments when a simple statement of disagreement would suffice.......its just not worth the aggro in my opinion, after all, this is just a bike forum.

I have strong opinions myself and sometimes give in to the urge to make them public but have so far, I think, managed not to be nasty to anyone, probably irritated plenty at times but hey, as I say, we arent all perfect.

We all have to learn to live with worse things than a falling out on a forum but its always a better policy to fall short of insults.

Lynda :)
 

jackhandy

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 20, 2012
1,820
323
the Cornish Alps
Is it really worth "challenging someone robustly" when it so obviously causes upset and ill feeling

Lynda :)
I sympathise with your feelings on this, Lynda & rarely have a pop myself despite being sorely tempted at times, but any forum member that posts unsubstantiated criticisms must expect that someone's going to take him to task at some point.

I'd suggest the adage "If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen" would be well heeded, preferably Before posting...

And No, that's not aimed at you, Lynda - Honest!
 
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jackhandy

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 20, 2012
1,820
323
the Cornish Alps
Eureka ... Just found this ...


It does work. Unfortunately posts quoted are still visible but it's a start. If anyone wants to block me I hope the above guidance will help enrich your browsing experience. I'm hoping it will help salvage mine.

Personally, I'd much rather you kept it to yourself, not seeing a need to block replies to anything I post.
 

funkylyn

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 22, 2011
3,172
27
South Shields, Tyne & Wear
I sympathise with your feelings on this, Lynda & rarely have a pop myself despite being sorely tempted at times, but any forum member that posts unsubstantiated criticisms must expect that someone's going to take him to task at some point.

I'd suggest the adage "If you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen" would be well heeded, preferably Before posting...

And No, that's not aimed at you, Lynda - Honest!

I totally agree.....see...you are safe lol......Im not against people being taken to task, I LOVE a good argument/discussion.

My point is that we should try to do that without insulting each other or, in other words, if I was having a real go at someone on here and then realised they were getting really upset, justly or unjustly, I would back off rather than really upset someone.

Personally speaking, I am really thick skinned....I could even laugh at 'you know who' when he was around and trying to have a go at me......but others arent.

People can be as rough as they like with me (verbally ) I will take it and answer until I get bored , then walk away from the keyboard before the insults have a chance to start.

But I totally see where you are coming from, I just think we could be less rough with each other at times........see you at Bristol I hope......;)

Lynda :)
 

50 Hertz

Pedelecer
Mar 6, 2013
172
2
Is it really worth "challenging someone robustly" when it so obviously causes upset and ill feeling ?

We all have strong feelings about various topics but sometimes its true that responses and language can be just a bit "rough".
103Alex1 was being particularly spiteful towards the police and nearly all of what he was saying was without any foundation and lacked evidence. I accept that it was his opinion and that he has every right to hold and express those opinions, but when they are damaging and insulting towards an entire profession made up of tens of thousands of people, it is fair to challenge his remarks. He surely can't expect to be able to run to the garden gate, shout, "all coppers are b@st@rds" and the disappear into the sanctuary of his bedroom and hide under the duvet.

I do think that the people who constantly chip away at the integrity of the police, collectively, do great long term damage. The present situation sees the odds stacked massively in favour of criminals and this has come about, in part, because of the corrupt behaviour of a few individual officers, and mostly because those isolated cases have been exploited and used to undermine the police as a whole. The chipping away effect.

103Alex1 was criticising the police for taking action against cycle theft in one breath: Ho very er sporting of you . Looked like a perfectly normal guy from the photo. In terms of "detection" logic levels the analogy which springs to mind is that of Inspector Clouseau lol. and then rubbishing them for not taking action in the next: When I see some proper positive results from those who the public are paying to make a proper difference in the right ways I might change my overall views. He was also suggesting that the entire police service was corrupt.

I sensed that it was my invitation to 103Alex1 to provide some form of evidence that really upset him, rather than my comments. He was of course unable to do this because he had none, and I suspect that this embarrassed him. It was at this point that he effectively ran away and blocked me, but the harsh comments probably didn't help either.

To answer your question as to whether it is worth causing upset over the issue: You are right, it isn't worth it.

I am pleased to see that he is still posting on the forum, I wouldn't like to have seen him leave over this, non bike, related issue. It's done now, blown over hopefully.
 
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funkylyn

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 22, 2011
3,172
27
South Shields, Tyne & Wear
I am pleased to see that he is still posting on the forum, I wouldn't like to have seen him leave over this, non bike, related issue. It's done now, blown over hopefully.
I think you may be over estimating the effect of your words.... and certainly under estimating 103alex1 if you thought for one minute that he might leave the forum over this spat ......thankfully :)

I always think its not always 'what' people say but 'how' they say it that makes a difference.

And just to reiterate.....I personally think the majority of our Police are doing a great job......thankfully :)

Lynda :)
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
52,872
30,417
The present situation sees the odds stacked massively in favour of criminals
While I have sympathy for your views about the great majority of the police, I strongly disagree with this statement. This propaganda is regularly promoted by the police and some government elements as an excuse for the many actions in the reverse direction which have been corrupting our once excellent legal system.

In fact there are now some areas of criminal law where guilt is assumed rather than innocence and defendants are required to prove innocence rather than the prosecution required to prove guilt. Add to that a system which ensures that innocent persons mistakenly imprisoned serve much longer sentences than the truly guilty and we have a corrupted justice system.

Barrister Barbara Hewson's recent protest at just one area of this corruption in action was timely to say the least, and the current exposure of our illegal long term detention of Afghans also reveals how defiled our administration now is.