Yet Another London Cyclist Death Today

[Biker44]

I was right with you - until those last four words.

If we're serious about reducing cycling injuries, we need better facilities.

But there are other things we have to do for ourselves - recognise that the only safe way to cross a busy junction is to manage the traffic behind us and force it to protect our back ... or pull over onto the pavement, get off and push across.

 

[flecc]

cheers Flecc...drivers in your neck of the woods may be more cosiderate, I can recall more than one incident where a hand signal was no guarantee of safe passage.

Just recently at that same junction, I had made the signal, replaced my hand back on the handlebars about to make my turn when a car shot past on my offside, at a far greater speed that the legal 30mph and clipped my mirror, a second sooner and he'd have got my hand ... a second later and he'd have got me.

What I've highlighted in bold italics is what I don't do. My arm once punched out resolutely stays outstretched during the turn, straight and horizontal with my finger pointing where I'm going. The message is clear, no compromise! As for drivers being more considerate in my London borough, no, they're no different from the ones you mention and only too ready to take advantage against a cyclist.

 

[danfoto]

... I had made the signal, replaced my hand back on the handlebars about to make my turn when a car shot past on my offside ...

Frankly I'm not surprised, unless you were smack bang in the centre of the road and there was room for cars to pass on your left.

Certainly in this part of the world, most car drivers would take the fact that you had stopped signalling as meaning that you no longer intended to turn right.

 

[Mike63]

My arm once punched out resolutely stays outstretched during the turn, straight and horizontal with my finger pointing where I'm going.

...Oh right I see....I cannot do that, I've tried but I cannot turn with only one hand on the bars.

 

[flecc]

...Oh right I see....I cannot do that, I've tried but I cannot turn with only one hand on the bars.

I've even modified one folder so that I can do that on it as well, fitting wider handlebars and cutting out some slop in the folding steerer tube, both for better stability. And my e-bikes have been either pedelec or left hand throttle to keep my right arm always free for signalling.

 

[Mike63]

...anyone used any of these or something better ?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyclamatic-Wireless-Remote-Control-Indicators/dp/B009M0DHRM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374223494&sr=8-1&keywords=indicators+for+bikes

 

[Clockwise]

...anyone used any of these or something better ?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Cyclamatic-Wireless-Remote-Control-Indicators/dp/B009M0DHRM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374223494&sr=8-1&keywords=indicators+for+bikes

Maybe more effective.

Amazon.co.uk: high vis gloves

I personally wouldn't bet on any motorist seeing a bike light size indicator and telling which direction it is from any distance. To give a rough idea you are looking at a light tha isn't as wide as a single numberplate letter and is half as tall, a car indicator on the back lights is usually 4-5 times larger and a more powerful light. Get 2 bike lights and put them on and by a wall or something then walk back and be truthful with yourself about how well you can see them. Your arm is much larger than an indicator light or even an entire numberplate.

I put a yellow indicator light on a bike for you, that's about 2 cars traffic behind you.

 

[flecc]

I wouldn't trust to motorists seeing any bike indicators, they are too central and often indistinct in bright daylight. They often don't even see us!

Brightly coloured gloves like those Clockwise mentions seem a good idea to accentuate hand signals. An LED arrow on the back of a glove for night use, switched on by a gravity switch when the arm was held straight out should do the trick for that after dark dangerous situation.

 

[peerjay56]

...sorry Phil...may have offended you...not my intention...my apologies.

No worries Mike. I was just trying to clarify what I'd said in my post - electronic medium is not easy for getting the 'tone' right...

 

[Mike63]

....cheers Phil...be lucky

 

[Hackney Andy]

Today another cyclist was crushed under a truck at Holborn, London, the bike a crumpled tangle of tubes under the truck still as I type. That's six deaths so far this year, but horrifically the third one in London in just two weeks.

These truck drivers are not chasing down cyclists with murderous intent, I'm sure they are totally shattered by such an event in their working life. The evidence is that almost all of these accidents was totally under the control of the cyclist and could easily have been avoided by them.

So please, please , please, wherever you are, keep your wits about you, watch out for trucks, recognise the limitations of the drivers vision and stay well clear of them, particularly on their blind left hand side. Your life is in your hands, not theirs.

I have to say I find Flecc's attitude on this matter absolutely sickening. I cycle ten miles a day in central London as I have done for 20 years; the behaviour of many lorry drivers is disgraceful. They almost always ignore advance stop lines and the numerous arguments I've had with them when they've passed me so close to have threatened my life indicate they all too often don't give a damn. There have been two fatalities near me. One the driver of a skip lorry crushed a woman against railings 18 inches on the pavement side of the kerb. He was using a mobile whilst turning left at a roundabout. In Dalston a driver crushed another cyclist; he did not have the correct mirrors fitted and encroached on the advanced stop line - the cyclist was there first! In both cases the drivers got off......no wonder they exhibit such indifference to our safety - unless they are drunk they never get convicted!

My opinion is that if you operate a lethal piece of machinery in a public place you take responsibility for any consequential death and injury; in this country you don't, which, combined with the reticence of authorities to provide segregated space as they have in some other northern European countries, explains much towards why we have such carnage on our roads. Unfortunately there are too many people with Flecc-type attutudes in this country who find it easier to blame the victim.

Flecc, you're a pedelec sage, and I take my hat off to you for that, but what you come out with on this subject matter beggars belief.

Andy Clarke

 

[Mike63]

no wonder they exhibit such indifference to our safety - unless they are drunk they never get convicted!

....you've certainly got that right.

 

[Mike63]

...before someone misinterperets my post I'd just like to make it clear that I was refering to the single phrase I quoted and not Andy's total post.

 

[flecc]

I have to say I find Flecc's attitude on this matter absolutely sickening. -----------------------------------------

Flecc, you're a pedelec sage, and I take my hat off to you for that, but what you come out with on this subject matter beggars belief.

Andy Clarke

I think most have understood my thread, 10 likes posted for example, but you clearly haven't Andy. I'm well aware that there are truck drivers who behave in the manner you describe, after all I cycle in London like you, but I'm also well aware the majority are not like that.

But in this thread I'm not concerned with guilt, only with doing my little bit to try and prevent any more cyclists being killed, especially by the trucks they are so vulnerable to. That's the primary objective, stopping the deaths, and the simplest way to achieve that is to stop cyclists putting themselves in potentially dangerous positions. Ranting about truck drivers isn't going to stop the deaths as the history shows. And London cyclists are are hardly a picture of innocence on the roads, many of them I see doing incredibly stupid things. In my opinion and experience the percentage of irresponsible behaviour by cyclists in London is higher than that for truck drivers.

I have no bias in this subject since as well as being a cyclist I've had years of truck driving experience.

 

[danfoto]

I have every sympathy for those affected by the death of any cyclist who is killed on our roads, and I'm not in any way seeking to excuse bad driving of any kind, but ...

Is it not the case that in the real world, any cyclist finding themselves on the nearside of any vehicle at a junction should expect it to turn left?

You can talk about segregating traffic till the cows come home, but except in isolated cases it just is not going to happen any time soon. For the time being, we have to make the best of things, and in my book, that means having your wits about you at all times and always expecting the unexpected.

 

[Clockwise]

I have been doing a steady 15-20 miles a night around london this week(new wheels and sun yay), just about to head out to do another 20 or so today. This next clip might disturb you but it is how I view 95% of other cyclists on the road, it took me just a few seconds to find on youtube. Some are hilarious to watch, they record themself being an utter moron and then shouting at a motorist who really wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary.

[video=youtube;IR3AoLUZ-Go]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR3AoLUZ-Go[/video]

The reality of it is this... both the guy with the headcam and the guy he is following are both winning darwin awards soon, going onto the other side of the road to overtake, taking tiny gaps and then after having almost died jumping the lights just before the video ends. Not to mention the 2nd guy in blue who you see take the same gap before the lucky survivor has even made it out.

 

[danfoto]

This next clip might disturb you but it is how I view 95% of other cyclists on the road

Whilst I have no recent experience riding a bike in London, I had to drive round various parts of it often enough in the 12 years to 2010. And I wouldn't mind a crisp tenner for the number of times I've seen exactly that sort of stupidity.

My particular favourites were always the faux cycle messengers with the backwards cycling caps doing track stands on their fixies ahead of the bike box at lights, trying to look übercool whilst looking around in the hope that they had an audience.

I've always thought that with the number of muppets riding like in that video, it's no wonder so many motorists in town see cyclists as a major PITA.

 

[mike killay]

Whilst I have no recent experience riding a bike in London, I had to drive round various parts of it often enough in the 12 years to 2010. And I wouldn't mind a crisp tenner for the number of times I've seen exactly that sort of stupidity.

My particular favourites were always the faux cycle messengers with the backwards cycling caps doing track stands on their fixies ahead of the bike box at lights, trying to look übercool whilst looking around in the hope that they had an audience.

I've always thought that with the number of muppets riding like in that video, it's no wonder so many motorists in town see cyclists as a major PITA.

I totally agree. There are a huge number of idiotic cyclists, particularly in London. Youngsters, seeing this think that is normal and emulate them.
Strangely though, the idiots seem to survive, it is the careful ones, mainly women who get killed.

 

[Hackney Andy]

"The evidence is that almost all of these accidents was totally under the control of the cyclist and could easily have been avoided by them." Where is this evidence? Did not the latest stats on cycle accident reveal 68% of KSI collisions were the fault of the driver?

 

[Hackney Andy]

That video shows an extreme version of London cyclists or courier types who actually don't often get killed. The accidents I cited were normal commuters who were well aware of the dangers of lorries and were correctly positioned at the place of the accident.

People like Flecc always want to believe it's the cyclists fault. The stats do not support that view.