emissions-free

You can set current limit and you can also set a max speed using the plug in CA. You need to ensure the controller is suitably equipped and that the controller is suitable for your type of motor. I do not believe you require hall sensors on your motor for the CA to limit the controller in this way. Look on the Ebike.ca website you can download the manual. It's all there. I very much doubt a 25A controller would do your Bafang motor much harm if you are running it at standard voltage. It will also be rpm limited at it's standard voltage so you will not get much more if any additional top speed from it. If you're gonna be using the motor for a lot of long steep hills, higher than standard current could become an issue.

I'm not a consumer and the last time I bought motors it was 10,000USD worth. Tongxin don't answer emails and from what I have seen they are very unreliable motors. They can keep their motors as there are plenty of other companies that do respond and have motors that don't fall apart if you look at them the wrong way Good luck with Ecity/BMSBattery. Great prices, pity they don't order the bits till they've got your money....

There's a nice looking cylindrical battery pack that is now becoming available that has a mounting to go onto the washer bottle. This is a 36V, 9Ah Li Ion pack. Also seen some 7Ah packs that are a bit smaller that bolt onto the seat tube or could go somewhere else. The kits that Bafang offer are very nicely finished with a single multicore connecting all the controls which all come to a single little box. They are not as cheap as the ebay kits but they they are still very reasonably priced. The big rear motor they do (BPM Climber) is a very nice motor for someone who needs a bit of torque for the hills and comes in 250, 350 and 500W with matching controllers. Bafang are also bringing out a sub 2kg motor as well, but the only place I've seen it so far was on their stand at last weeks Shanghai Bike Show I do agree that a big bulky battery on the top of a rack is not ideal but it's horses for courses. If you want a bike that will do 40mph and give you 30-50km range at a descent pace (maybe 1KWhr) it's gonna be a little bulky. My bike does that and the total weight of the kit added to the bike is about 17kg, including dual hub motors, dual controllers and 48V 20Ah of A123 prismatics. Almost 5KW max power and 68kph max speed on the flat If you only want a small assist then a Lithium Polymer pack can do that with less that 3kg, maybe even 2kg and very small dimensions. There are motors that weigh only 2kg. I made a bike up for a friend which consisted of a budget aluminium framed bike (14.something kg), 36V 6Ah LifePO4 Pack (abt 3.5kg) and Bafang front motor (~3kg) with their kit. Total weight was ~22kg. With a 2kg motor and a Lithium Polymer Pack even on that budget frame it would be between 20 and 21kg.

What's so special about the Dapush or Dapu setup? I've tried it and didn't find it any better or worse than other stuff that is available from Bafang or Ananda. I found it very similar in size and performance to the Ananda 108 motor, smaller than the Bafang front motor but not as quiet. I believe it's slightly more expensive than an equivalent Bafang setup but it's hardly a high end premium product IMO and isn't a better performer IMO. There are also lots of batteries coming online that are packaged to fit within the frame triangle. I can think of at least 3 commonly available generic cases that are being used by the battery pack manufacturers in China. These are all readily available parts, you just contact the manufacturer and order them, maybe 50 or 100 pieces MOQ.

That's absolutely spot on and this is how packs in EVs can have such a long lifecycle. The only problem with actually trying to implement this on your average ebike is that although you can control the DOD it's not so easy to control the charging level. The BMS inside is fixed to certain values as is the charger. These are not overly high charge levels although the HVC on a typical LiFePO4 BMS is 3.9V whereas the recommended charge level is 3.65V so if you've got a bit of a weak cells it's likely to only get weaker if it hits HVC every time the pack is charged. Charging in the cold is another big no no, as that 3.65V at -10degC is equivalent to a much higher charge voltage at 20degC. If you then throw in a weak cell which hits HVC into the bargain you can then see why things start to go bad. The only way I can see to control the level is charge is to use a BMS that is either adjustable or fixed to lower Balance voltages and a charger set up to this lower voltage. The best solution IMO is a proper balance charger that does some form of singe cell charging and is adjustable. With this solution the BMS in the pack can be much simpler.

There's 2 terms commonly used, DOD, Depth of Discharge and SOC, State of Charge. DOD of 100% is completely discharged, no more power remaining. 100% SOC is fully charged and is related to temperature as well as voltage so it's not as simple as saying 100% SOC is 3.65V for LifePO4. The same charge voltage at lower temperatures is actually a higher SOC which is why charging in low temperatures is not recommended. Keeping to say no more than 90% SOC for charging and discharging to no more than 80% will increase the lifecycle of all lithium based batteries as far as I know.

No worries I'm only having a laugh Nothing wrong with some extra strong watts and you've always got to consider the tolerances in such things and different rolling radius of tyres etc ect just to ensure that everyone gets their fair share

A 20A controller on a 36V 250W ebike Is that legal?

Yeah I do believe it is feasible but I don't really have the time right now to take on another small project like engineering a complete solution. I have a big pack that is already overdue and it has been big headaches and untold time sorting out all the little details. Also I'm not so sure that it would actually make a big impact on the hill climbing ability. Is the battery sagging that bad under load? I doubt it TBH. At the end of the day 250W rated just doesn't actually do much especially when presented with a hill or a strong headwind. It's quite likely just limited power from the controller and motor combination and no amount of battery will fix that. The standard way to get a bit more power from a motor is a few more volts which would require an additional pack to be switched in series. It's all possible and none of it's rocket science but there's bound to be a few niggles and a bit of time to sort it all out. It might be simpler to just try and get hold of the higher power motor and controller combo that whisper offer, but be very careful venturing into the heady speeds of 15mph plus

Yeah of course RC lipo is good stuff but if over charged or over discharged it is liable to burst into flames. They sell fire proof bags for charging You can only get good lifecycles if you are very careful with not going to deep discharge levels. It is not forgiving and the prices are not much cheaper than these cells per Wh so if anything these facts make the prismatics even better value. Oh and by the way the 15Ah cells are not as high energy density as the 20Ah cells so a 15S 20Ah pack, 36.3V nominal would come in better than the above example I gave at 5.14Kg for an 11S 20Ah pack and you could use all the capacity without fear of it dramatically shortening the lifecycle or going up in flames. I've spoken to companies that manufacture high C rate LiPo that is used for RC and they state it is not safe in big packs. I can't see many auto manufactures going with lipo because they can save what 15% but you need to change the pack every 6 months and it bursts into flames if you let it go into the red All I'm trying to show is that there are new and better batteries coming without any real ifs or buts and things should only get better. These cells will likely not be in Ebikes but hopefully in lots of EV Cars in the not too distant future. I've already sold lots of these and the most of the remaining cells are likely already spoken for by an existing customer.

I was only referring to the cells themselves and yes I didn't state LiFePO4 in the but I did in the message. The 20Ah cells are generally 467g and are 3.3V nominal, 20Ah, so 66Whrs per cell. So they have an energy density of 141.3Whrs/kg combined with very high power density of something like 3000W/kg plus for bursts. They do this while still remaining 1 of the safest chemistry and offering exceptional lifecycle when tested for automobile applications. I'm not so sure that typical li polymer cells offer energy density equal to these figures and they definitely don't do 7000 cycles or 10-15 years.

I do take note and will look at trying to offer some more options. The A123 26650s in a small pack can still give great power if you haven't got far to go. There are also various Li Polymer and LiFePO4 pouch cells that give good performance in a compact package with sufficient current to easily power a Euro legal ebike. I used a 36V 6Ah pack for most of my commuting until recently. This can still give a genuine 10 miles at a good speed (illegal) with some pedaling, a good bit more if you pedal lots and go slow. Even in fairly standard LiFePO4 cylindrical cells with a proper case that is still only about 2.7kg. You really can't beat the A123 26650 cells though TBH and if you don't have far to go they are a good option in a 1 or 2 parallel configuration, plus they can deliver very illegal power if requested so absolutely no bother at legal power levels. I can get some of these made into small packs if anyone is interested. It's roughly 7USD per cell (3.3V, 2.3Ah) and I can add a small fairly low cost BMS (about 40USD) so it can be charged from a standard charger. A 36V 4.6Ah pack would work out to about 230USD plus shipping etc. Total weight less than 2kg

Thanks Paul Yeah I know these cells are not for everyone but if you were looking to have a slightly illegal bike... then these fit the bill very nicely. I will try to diversify a bit more in the future and start to supply packs with lower C ratings and price tags

Unfortunately I doubt these cells would fit into a typical ebike battery enclosure. The enclosures tend to be narrower than these cells. The 15Ah cells are approximately 15cm wide. The main hurdle to changing the cells in your batteries would be that LiPoly is typically smaller and lighter per Wh than LifePO4 so you might have trouble fitting equal capacity of LiFePO4 into that enclosure. It would also be tricky to find the appropriate sized cells that could make the best use of the available space inside the enclosure. Maybe you could find a an alternative complete battery that uses the same mountings and connections?? The enclosure used on the Torq looks very much like those that are commonly available but I don't know that model intimately so I wouldn't know for sure I'm afraid. Sorry I can't be of more help.

Gents, just thought I'd give my fellow countrymen the opportunity to get some really top quality Battery Packs at very competitive prices. I'm keeping the prices in USD as I think this is the fairest way as it is pretty much pegged to the Chinese RMB and I'd rather give everyone a level playing field rather than bump the pound price up to cover currency fluctuations. Bare cells are presently available at 37.50USD per 15Ah cell (typically test at 16Ah Plus). 20Ah cells are 50USD per pc. This is cheaper than the typical A123 26650 prices per Ah which are generally about 7USD for a 2.3Ah cell, or 3USD/Ah a opposed to my price of 2.5USD/Ah. The cells have the highest energy density of any available LiFePO4 cell. Weights and dimensions, not including tabs are as follows: Model: AHP 70165227 Model: AHP 68150211 Capacity: 20Ah Capacity: 15Ah Size: 7.0X 166X227mm Size: 6.8X 150X211mm Weight: 480g Weight: 400g This works out to 137.5Whrs/kg for the 20Ah and 123.75Whrs/kg. When you consider that the 20Ah cells actually weigh 467g and the 15Ah cells are typically 16Ah, this equates to 141Whrs/kg and 132Whrs/kg for the 20 and 15Ah cells respectively. High energy density Lifepo4 is typically 100Whrs/kg. These cells also give high power and are capable of approximately 20C constant but I would recommend usage of around 10C average even if high peak currents well beyond this are used. A pack made of these is on a completely different level to typical 2 or 3C packs. Figures such as 7000 cycles and 10-15 years lifecycle in the EV application they were intended for are claimed. I've spent a lot of time to develop a pack termination method I'm now happy with and the price breakdown is as follows for a 1p type pack: - termination parts = 2USD per cell - power plugs, both sides (controller and battery side), dual pole 50A (2pcs) = 6USD or Power Pole 45A (2 pairs) = 4USD - assembly including parts, connecting a BMS, heat shrink, basic mechanical protection and electrical isolation = 3.5USD per cell - assembling the pack with terminations only, for end user to implement into their own case = 2.5USD per cell Parts prices: Chargers USD 36V 5A 61 48V 5A 65 BMS 12S 30A 46 12S 60A 88 16S 30A 54 16S 80A 95 High Power Connectors 2 pole 175A = 10USD per connector 75A Power Pole = 6USD per pair 2 pole 350A = 15USD per connector heat shrink (63cm) = 3USD per m Below are some examples of fully assembled packs. Part assembled packs will be a little cheaper as per my above details. It is very straightforward to tie in a BMS, so you're welcome fix your own method for pack balancing, HVC and LVC protection. I'm not a believer in going without a BMS and do not think it will work very well with these cells. They rise so quickly at the end of the charge it is essential to have some cell level balancing/protection IMO. Example fully assembled Pack Pricing, not including charger: 12S 15Ah Description Quantity Unit cost Sub Total 15Ah Cell 12 37.5 450 30A Const BMS 1 46 46 Termination Parts 12 2 24 Full Assembly/Parts 12 3.5 42 45A Power Pole (pair) 1 2.00 2 Total 564 USD 16S 15Ah Description Quantity Unit cost Sub Total 15Ah Cell 16 37.5 600 30A Const BMS 1 54 54 Termination Parts 16 2 32 Full Assembly/Parts 16 3.5 56 45A Power Pole (pair) 1 2.00 2 Total 744 USD 12S 20Ah Description Quantity Unit cost Sub Total 15Ah Cell 12 50 600 30A Const BMS 1 54 54 Termination Parts 12 2 24 Full Assembly/Parts 12 3.5 42 45A Power Pole (pair) 1 2.00 2 Total 722 USD 16S 20Ah Description Quantity Unit cost Sub Total 15Ah Cell 16 50 800 30A Const BMS 1 54 54 Termination Parts 16 2 32 Full Assembly/Parts 16 3.5 56 45A Power Pole (pair) 1 2.00 2 Total 944 USD Shipping is by either EMS at 35% discounted price, Air Freight which is generally a bit cheaper than EMS for most countries, sometimes significantly cheaper. The slow boat is also available and that is cheap, but can take a looooong time if you're unlucky and miss the boat... Paypal is 6% (my cost, 3.4% commission plus 2.5% money exchange commission, thieving bast....s :evil: ) or wire transfer to Hong Kong with no commission and much preferred. Buyer pays the bank fees. I'm very busy with a big parallel pack termination that I must finish but would give a lead time of 1 week (at present) for a standard pack build (should be quicker but I'd rather not make too many promises). If you want a pack built I'll accept a 100USD deposit and the remainder before shipment or just pay it up front, up to you.