Hi everyone, this is my first post! We are a bike hire company in Jersey trying to set up the first electric bike scheme on the Island ready for March next year. We have been trawling through the (massive) choice of bikes but wanted to see if anyone had any comments on which bikes they think would be good, durable, reliable for a hire fleet. Looking to buy x20 bikes. We have come across the Urban Mover UM20 which looks pretty good - does anyone have any experience of these bikes? Any comments greatly appreciated!

Hi,we have a bike in our range which was specifically designed to meet the needs of the hire industry,we have a number in use for hire purposes in Holland,Greece and Ibiza.

The bike is the Kudos Safari..if you PM me I will give you further details.

Current stock 55 bikes.

Dave

Kudoscycles

PS Just come back frpm a weekend in Jersey,Longueville Manor-wonderful hotel and love St Brelades bay and the Oyster Box. Great island for a holiday.

Hi Puffin

 

jersey is great! We were at Bouley Bay (next to the Black Dog) 4 years ago, loved it.

Our Santana may be of interest? Have a look on our website.

We could supply 20 pieces in black or white no problem.

 

Regards,

Hi Puffin

 

As someone who's tested the Woosh Santana I have say that it's style and strength make it an ideal bike for your purpose.

 

Give Woosh a call

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do you have a technician capable of keeping E bikes running, hub motor bikes cheap but far from reliable. If it was me I would want ultra reliable German crank drive bikes with hub gears

 

centre drive bikes are far more "bike" like to ride and easier for the inexperienced. If I was doing this it is what I would invest in.

 

I would suggest getting in touch with 50 cycles and getting a deal on some step through kalkhoff bikes as these will be very reliable. but seeing that season over I would wait a bit as some cheaper Chinese centre drive bikes supposed to be arriving soon, but God knows what they will be like!

 

If you decide to go kalkhoff get a price fom Raleigh as well as they are identical bikes more or less. There was some Kalkhoff agutta 8Ah bikes on sale in Germany for 999 € the other day..gone now, but bargains do turn up now and again. I am sure some would bite your hand of for a 20 bike order

Hi Puffin Bikes,

 

You don't mention your budget, but I am fairly confident one of the eZee models that we supply would be suitable and could be configured for your specific requirements.

 

Just click on the link below for more details.

 

Regards,

I don't think servicing will be a problem:

 

About Us - Bicycle Hire & Bike Rentals in JE

Eddie,all of the hire fleets I have supplied so far and there are many more interested because they need to make decisions that are remote from personal users-

1. They need to have batteries that will have a much greater life than that offered by LiMn04,at this time this means LifeP04,which may last 5 years plus-no hire fleet operator can change his batteries after 2 years.

2. They need cheap batteries when the day comes to change-this means less than £250

3. They need as low capital expenditure as possible,any current crank drive will be too expensive to buy.

4. They need bikes which are very simple for every new hirer to understand the controls quickly

5. They need bikes which adjust to suit a little lady at 4'10" to a big guy at 6'2" using the same frame size

6. They need a very wide step thru so that even a less mobile person can easily mount/dismount the bike

7. They need a throttle so that even tired legs have a way home

8. They need cheap service parts and ready access to a good parts store

9. They need puncture proof tyres

10. They need a V style kickstand so that at rest the bike stands upright

11. They need giant panniers to carry food/picnic/swim gear etc

12. They need the frame to be as simple as possible with no dirt traps.

13. They need 8 speed Nexus internal hub gears,derailleur is too high maintenance-need to avoid mud clean outs and jumped chains due to back peddling. These hub gears also overcome the 'stuck in top gear problem',you can change gear stationary and are easily understood. Jersey is actually quite hilly so the 8 gears better than 3 gears.

14. They need the bikes to be built like brick......

 

As far as I know nobody has specifically designed an e-bike dedicated for hire usage aside from Kudos,our Safari was a unique bike built to the specification of our dutch customer.

We have over 200 Safari in build for hire fleet usage in 2013.

Even the chinese crank drive bikes under development will not be cheap enough for hire fleet usage.

Dave

Kudoscycles

Edited November 1, 201213 yr by Kudoscycles

Yup Dave that sounds about right. We have 5 tonaro compys which are great for hilly regions like Argyll and have been pretty much maintenance free over the first year. Only reservation so far is that they are a touch tall for shorter customers and they cost quite alot in the first place.

Personally I dont like the spec of the Urban Mover but at the end of the day it depends on what kind of price you can get, and spares and service backup as well.

Hello Puffin Bikes,

 

I would suggest that you take a look at Ezee bikes or Wisper for a Motor wheel variant,as the parts are easily replaceable-and they both have good strong motors and a decent capacity battery too....

 

If Crank drive is more your thing,BH Emotion do a powerful Panasonic driven variety-which are comfortable and user friendly-i would suggest Derailleur gear systems over Hub as the change is more immeadiate,more users are familiar with derailleur and it's much easier to repair/maintain-though Hub needs less maintenance.

Hi Puffin

 

jersey is great! We were at Bouley Bay (next to the Black Dog) 4 years ago, loved it.

Our Santana may be of interest? Have a look on our website.

We could supply 20 pieces in black or white no problem.

 

Regards,

 

Hatti,I think that hotel is called 'the Waters Edge Hotel',its in a wonderful location but the hotel looked externally tired last time I was in that bay.

Dave

Kudoscycles

Eddie,all of the hire fleets I have supplied so far and there are many more interested because they need to make decisions that are remote from personal users-

1. They need to have batteries that will have a much greater life than that offered by LiMn04,at this time this means LifeP04,which may last 5 years plus-no hire fleet operator can change his batteries after 2 years.

2. They need cheap batteries when the day comes to change-this means less than £250

3. They need as low capital expenditure as possible,any current crank drive will be too expensive to buy.

4. They need bikes which are very simple for every new hirer to understand the controls quickly

5. They need bikes which adjust to suit a little lady at 4'10" to a big guy at 6'2" using the same frame size

6. They need a very wide step thru so that even a less mobile person can easily mount/dismount the bike

7. They need a throttle so that even tired legs have a way home

8. They need cheap service parts and ready access to a good parts store

9. They need puncture proof tyres

10. They need a V style kickstand so that at rest the bike stands upright

11. They need giant panniers to carry food/picnic/swim gear etc

12. They need the frame to be as simple as possible with no dirt traps.

13. They need 8 speed Nexus internal hub gears,derailleur is too high maintenance-need to avoid mud clean outs and jumped chains due to back peddling. These hub gears also overcome the 'stuck in top gear problem',you can change gear stationary and are easily understood. Jersey is actually quite hilly so the 8 gears better than 3 gears.

14. They need the bikes to be built like brick......

 

As far as I know nobody has specifically designed an e-bike dedicated for hire usage aside from Kudos,our Safari was a unique bike built to the specification of our dutch customer.

We have over 200 Safari in build for hire fleet usage in 2013.

Even the chinese crank drive bikes under development will not be cheap enough for hire fleet usage.

Dave

Kudoscycles

 

Not for me I'm afraid.....They need to be ultra reliable, reasonably attractive (Oop's) inexperienced e bike user friendly, (only centre drive achieve this criteria) ideally not frighten the wildlife or pensioners.....and be excellent hill climbers

I would think that puffin' was what hirers were hopin' to avoid ...

OMG. As if I wasn't spoilt for choice before! Thank you all for your comments. It is clear that I need to digest them all and enter all the specs onto a spreadsheet to make comparisons.

 

As a hirer of regular pedal bikes, we have gone with a fleet of Claude Butler - mid range in price with good pedigree etc. We are trying to stay away from suspension forks & disc brakes as the salt air has caused problems in the past and they are more effort re servicing / repairs.

 

I was unaware of motor wheel vs crank drive, so more homework needed. Wisper bikes keep popping up when researching - I like the fact that they have been adopted by police forces which would suggest reliability and durability.

 

As with everything in life, it all boils down to choosing the best spec & reliability that you can get for the money. Once we have the charging points in situ around the Island we will be moving into e-bike sales to the local and corporate market so volume sales discounts will obviously play a vital part in the decision making process.

 

Many thanks to you all once again... I'm sure that there are a million other questions that I will have, so prepare yourselves now and treat me gently!!

Delivery/stock is a big consideration with ebikes.

 

If Kudos or Woosh say they have 20 bikes ready to go, you can believe them.

 

Some less scrupulous 'manufacturers' will take your order and then set about sourcing the bikes from China which can take months.

Puffin I`m not sure Police Forces have adopted particular Ebikes , more like gratefully` received `from the suppliers .They probably have adverts on them like some of the cars received in the same way . I agree with your views on disc brakes, nothing wrong with simple blocks . Most have forks with suspension these days and a quick wipe at the end of the day with kitchen towel sprayed with WD 40 should keep corrosion at bay .

Puffin Wisper are great bikes I have had 4 and they are constantly being upgraded. I am sure David would be happy to supply you with 20 or more....

 

You indeed need to do some home work, centre drive bikes cost more because they are German built and more sophisticated. they have no throttles and just feel natural in use as they just multiply your efforts, hill climbing is there strongest attraction.

 

noisy cheap hub drive bikes have throttles and need some getting used to...Just think about the implications of a hirer injuring themselves riding into a tree or ditch.

Puffin,there you go thats what happens when you make a posting on this site,we all want your business and obviously are pushing our own products.

I agree with you about suspension forks,in an ideal world I would put solid on all bikes but customers want them. Its the same story with 27 speed gears,they really are not needed on e-bikes but customers demand them,8 gears is enough.

I disagree with those who consider that crank drive is more reliable than hub drive,our experience is the Bafang motor is a very reliable component,we have supplied one service item so far and that would not freewheel the motor still turned.

The reliability issue is definitely about who screws these bikes together,some of the chinese companies are very poor at quality control and some are very good,my experience is that they are only as good as their worse employee. I will agree that the german assembly is often more reliable but you pay for that in the price point,the parts are often still sourced from China so its a matter of assembly which controls the reliability.

You did not state what your price point is,but others have achieved good quality bikes for hire purposes in the region £600-£700.

My customer in Greece is on one of the islands,about Jersey size but much more mountainous,he has arranged at tavernas around the island for customers to exchange batteries,they charge euro 5 for a replacement fully charged battery,its a win-win situation the hirer gets a new battery,the taverna gets an income and those stopping always have a drink/snack-however,this only works if the batteries are cheap.The problem with recharging points is the time,most lithium batterys take 4-5 hours to fully charge and the nature of hirers are that they try to get home on the old battery,usually running out at the bottom of the hill home-LifeP04 is definitely the best battery for this purpose but it exhausts very quickly at the end,possibly from full voltage to bms cutoff in less than 1 mile.

Jersey is actually very hilly so crank drive would probably be the prefered option but there are no crank drive bikes currently on the market at less than £1k and most of them have expensive,short cycle battery life.....but maybe soon!!!!

Whoever or whatever you decide its an interesting project and I hope that you keep us posted as to progress,where are you located on the island?

Dave

Kudoscycles

Edited November 2, 201213 yr by Kudoscycles

Simply not true..found a couple of sellers of Panasonic powered e bikes this morning, one at 1200€ and one at 1300€ that was without seriously looking, I knew I would, as Stadler.de had them at 999€ a few days ago, sale items making way for 2013 stock I would think.. I am sure they would drop price a lot for a 20 bike order.

 

try 50 cycles they are known to price match....and bikes in a different league for reliably and build quality.

 

I think you need to take heed of impartial advice from members, presumably why you posted on here in the first place.....

 

Is Jersey vat free?

 

 

I think you need to take heed of impartial advice from members, presumably why you posted on here in the first place.....

 

Is Jersey vat free?

 

Sadly 'impartial advice' isn't what people get from you. Did you mean to infer that people riding hub bikes crash into trees on their first outing?

 

Puffin, you are in business so don't need us to tell you how to run one. You could look at all the different makes and types but nothing beats actually trying a few.

So where is my advice not impartial? and yours is?lol I dont ride a Kalkhoff or a connection with 50 cycles, but you ride a Kudos..give me a break

 

its common for people to have problems with throttle controlled bikes when new to them.... my wife a good example. when I sold two bikes both buyers who tried them leaned on throttles and bike ran away from them. many on here have found this off putting and gone for centredrives simply because they are more civilised and like normal cycling

What advice have I given about puffin buying a Kudos? You give confusing contradictory advice, you said get crank drive, you said hub drives aren't for you then you recommend wisper which are hub drive saying you've had 4. Where's the impartial advice?

 

I'd like you to now point out where I said buy a Kudos or any other make.

 

BTW not all hub drive bikes have throttles but I'm sure you knew that.

Edited November 2, 201213 yr by Jimod

I mentioned Wisper because Puffin asked? and they are the best in hub bikes as far as I'm concerned, and correct I am happily on my 4th, and their Euro spec bikes dont have throttles. But this is not about me and I am genuinely trying to help, I would not have a Kalkhoff they dont appeal, I prefer Bosch which is common knowledge.

 

Anyway Bosch and impulse to expensive, but the tried and well tested 26 V Panasonic's can be had at a good price. and If you dont think people have made claims after accidents on e bikes against suppliers you are naive....

So where is my advice not impartial? and yours is?lol I dont ride a Kalkhoff or a connection with 50 cycles, but you ride a Kudos..give me a break

 

its common for people to have problems with throttle controlled bikes when new to them.... my wife a good example. when I sold two bikes both buyers who tried them leaned on throttles and bike ran away from them. many on here have found this off putting and gone for centredrives simply because they are more civilised and like normal cycling

 

So you you don't like throttles fair enough. But not all hub drive bikes have them and those that do a lot give you the option of using it or using the bike in Pedelec mode giving the user the option of which to use. Also this is your opinion not accepted fact. I have already stated in the past I feel the opposite to you and that for me a hub bike with sensors is better and feels more natural than a crank drive. But unlike you I accept that is my personal preference and accept that others feel different which is something you seem incapable of ever accepting.

 

As for OP original question. You are probably realising by now that there are lots of options and lots of solutions and so you need to take you time and see which is best for you.

Probably best to talk to as many suppliers as you can.

Tell them your requirements.

See what they each offer/suggest as best solution and maybe using this narrow the field down a bit

And then get a sample of each to try out to before making the final decision.

To me for that many bikes if the supplier is not able to offer a test bike to try out for a week or so then they obviously are not really interested in the business (or the future repeat business as from what I can see most hire centres replace bikes on a fairly regular basis).

As for what is posted on here use it to get some ideas but treat it as what it is personal advice and opinions and coming with personal and business interest prejudice. At least for suppliers you can tell as they post as trade members (or should do)

 

Good Luck

The only reason we are all putting throttles on these bikes is that customers ask for them,it is often a primary request,if you don't want the throttle it is easily disconnected at the controller. As for the long running argument between hub and crank drive Kudos will soon have back to back test bikes. Our Arriba bike is hub drive+Thun torque sensor+Kudos TOP system,our Eiger bike is crank drive,both will be £1295.00.

Yesterday one of my competitors rode the Arriba bike and he admitted it was one of the nicest ebikes he had ever ridden at any price.

Dave

Kudoscycles