.....will hopefully be assisted by information here:)

 

Just started looking at electric bikes now that, in common with others, I perceive battery and motor technology is there or thereabouts about up to the job. The job of sorting the electric sheep from the chaff is rather more daunting than I had hoped.

 

Keep coming back to the Kalkhoff Agattu i8 HS Step-thru although it costs rather more than I thought I might consider spending (and it looks like I'll have to buy two!).

 

Anyway, I'll keep on reading and hope to see the light soon....if it ever stops snowing around here!

 

JimB

Hi Jim and welcome to the forum.

 

To help choose the bike.. you first have to be sure of your requirements, when you know what you expect from it then the choice will be a lot easier.

 

Your weight / fitness and what the terrain is like all play a part

Hi Jim

If you're in the Peak District you'd be welcome to try a Juicy Bike from either of our two stores, at Buxton and New Mills. Quite happy for you to try the local hills, but perhaps not the trails just yet...

 

[ATTACH]5401.vB[/ATTACH]

See this Tissington Trail Picture attached taken a few days ago.

 

Welcome to the forum!

.The job of sorting the electric sheep from the chaff is rather more daunting than I had hoped.

 

There's not much chaff around these days. Even the cheaper bikes use well-proven electrical components. You don't have to spend a lot of money to get a decent bike. I can't think of any bikes that I would advise someone not to buy; however, if you're heavy and/or you have a lot of hills to contend with, you have to be more selective, otherwise you can take your pick. Some of the bikes have potential for a bit more speed, but that's of no interest to most.

Thanks for your replies folks.

 

I have been having a look at Juicy Bike Classic on the web site and will probably risk the low oxygen regime you inhabit and take a look at a real one.

 

I should have said I'm 67, reasonably fit despite having had a couple of minor heart attacks (do a fair bit of exercise including Heart Rate targeted X-Trainer). 86 kilos but deflating at a reasonable rate (94 kilos in January) and being in Chesterfield have some flat riding areas plus the Peak District but with a tow bar mounted bike carrier the World is, in theory at least, our riding oyster.

 

From what I've read so far I have a preference for crank mount motor and want to avoid range anxiety so looking at stated ranges of 50 miles and up (I'm aware of the variables which affect that - I've probably gained 5 miles since January!). Good reliability is desirable, obviously.

 

Being a 'gadget' man I'd like all the obvious extras - hydraulic brakes, disk brakes and all of that (available in Buxton I know) and any other gizmo going.

 

Something that I've seen little or no mention of is the ability to plug into the car's electrics to charge on the move - say whilst touring. The ability to easily remove the battery for indoor charging is essential otherwise the main points above just about cover what my criteria is.

 

I realise this is the 'intro' section so will leave it at that and post in a more appropriate area with any specific questions.

 

Thanks again.

 

JimB

 

EDIT: I've remembered to put a bit in my personal details.

Edited April 2, 201313 yr by JimB

Hi Jim

Reliability is top of our design criteria too! We have lots of riders in Chesterfield. One family has 4 of our bikes and live at the top of Hilltop Road, which you can imagine, is at the top of one of Chesterfields many hills.

 

Regarding car based charging, you can get an "Inverter" for your car, plugging into the cigarette lighter socket, to convert the voltage to then run an e-bike charger, similar to those used in caravans and motor homes, but portable. These need to output 2 amps or more...

 

Something like this from Misco would do the job, but I bet others on these forums will know other such products and can advise.

Hi

 

We have a range of electric bikes to suit most needs. We also have an AVE bike with hydraulic brakes and 8 Alfine gears for £1299. Range up to 50 miles, although all ranges are genrally taken from using the bike on the flat, 30 miles is a more realistic estimate. What range do you need?

 

AVE CH Edition electric bikes folding bikes

 

Alternatively we have plenty of choice if you want a Bosch crank drive.

AVE electric bikes folding bikes

KTM Electric Bikes electric bikes folding bikes

 

You are welcome to give us a call if you want more information. Good luck with the search.

David

Range was one of my concerns which is why I put off buying until this year, when a 400Wh battery became available for the model I wanted. If this helps at all.

Hi Jim

Reliability is top of our design criteria too! We have lots of riders in Chesterfield. One family has 4 of our bikes and live at the top of Hilltop Road, which you can imagine, is at the top of one of Chesterfields many hills.

.

 

Hi Bob,

I don't want to sound pedantic, but should you be be giving out this kind of info about your customers?

 

 

Hi Jim,

 

Welcome to the forum.......good luck with your search......not easy with so many great bikes to choose from.

Hi Bob,

I don't want to sound pedantic, but should you be be giving out this kind of info about your customers?

 

Hmm, it could be shrewd marketing ploy to sell another 4 Juicy bikes:eek:

Hi Bob,

I don't want to sound pedantic, but should you be be giving out this kind of info about your customers?

Point taken Annie. The customer concerned has always been happy to share his experiences and has been a great ambassador for our bikes. Not something I have taken for granted I can assure you. Good point though...

Hi Jim,

 

Crank drive is the way forward for reliability and range.

Check out the market leaders Panasonic and Bosch,

available as standard on many different makes and models on the market.

 

Have a look on previous threads to help you out.

Better still go and get your leg over a few models! Try them out.

 

Welcome to the forum and good luck in your search!

 

Regards

Martin

Martin’s quite right, it’s jolly good to get one’s leg over a few models. Or so I recall…

........Regarding car based charging, you can get an "Inverter" for your car, plugging into the cigarette lighter socket, to convert the voltage to then run an e-bike charger, similar to those used in caravans and motor homes, but portable. These need to output 2 amps or more...

 

Something like this from Misco would do the job, but I bet others on these forums will know other such products and can advise.

 

Thanks Bob, I don't know why I didn't think of an inverter....after all I've already got one.

 

I'm going to have a look at your bikes by the way although I'm 100% committed to a crank drive step thru and now thinking NuVinci box (got to very much like the CVT on my Burgman 650E).

 

Regards,

 

JimB

You'll be most welcome Jim.

............Alternatively we have plenty of choice if you want a Bosch crank drive.

AVE electric bikes folding bikes

KTM Electric Bikes electric bikes folding bikes

 

You are welcome to give us a call if you want more information. Good luck with the search.

David

 

Hi David,

 

Thanks for your reply.

 

You asked what range do I need. It's a case of a 'want' rather than a need. The simple but useless answer is 'as much as I can get'.

 

I don't want to waste peoples' time on here. I've been doing a lot of research on the subject and as is usual with someone new to a subject I keep going off on tangents.

 

However, I think the NuVinci CVT is going to feature in my final list of wants (rather than needs, again) and I have been trying to find more details of the KTM Macina NuVinci stepthru other than those on the German language pdf that I downloaded.

 

I notice that they appear to claim a max possible range of 180 kms although I don't speak German but find the prospect of a possible 112 miles range rather unlikely given the battery size indicated.

 

On any given bike is one likely to get better or worse 'fuel consumption' with a NuVinci compared to a standard 8 gear hub (not derailleur)? I would have thought the auto would be worse, if only slightly so.

 

EDIT Does the NuVinci CVT hub have more drag when not powered compared to a standard manual set of gears? My Suzuki Burgman 650E (with CVT) is virtually impossible to move without power.

 

Any ideas on price for this bike? I see some euro ones but would prefer UK and whatever my final choice I may well have to buy two.

 

Just to clarify, my ideal spec is pretty much that of the above bike or the Kalkhoff equivalent, with or without NuVinci, but if not NuVinci then probably 8 gear hub gears).

 

I haven't ruled out other brands, particularly the step thru Woosh CD when it appears.

 

Regards,

 

JimB

 

I know I should have started a new thread for the subject matter beyond my first hello.

Edited April 3, 201313 yr by JimB

JimB,as you are a new member I am not sure you are aware that we have a Kudos-KTM roadshow near to you. On April 13.afternoon we are organising a test day for the full range of Kudos Bikes,including our latest Kudos Ibex Crank Drive bike and several KTM Bosch powered crank drives.

The event is centred on the Wetton Mill tea rooms,allowing leisurely test riding along the Manifold Trail and a more challenging route up to Butterton village and Wetton village.

Hope this is of interest,will be a good opportunity to try many different bike types with different price points.

Please check your PM.

KudosDave

Edited April 3, 201313 yr by Kudoscycles

Hi Jim,

 

Price for Nuvinci version is £2399. I have not ridden this type of system before but am aware of people noticing drag. Range depends very much on how you use the bike. I normally half the range quoted but it is largely dependant on assistance level used and terrain as well as rider weight and weather (longer range in warm, sunny weather). Happy for you to send me an email (dw@electrifyingcycles.co.uk) or private message for more information or give us a call. We have three KTM bikes in stock currently. Macina HS is also good which has hub gears and derailleur (SRAM Dual drive).

 

dw

Nuvinci is a bad idea.

The new model has a freewheel, so the rear wheel spins like on a normal bike but the transmission loss is still around 18%. If you ride unpowered, it's hard work.

JimB,as you are a new member I am not sure you are aware that we have a Kudos-KTM roadshow near to you. On April 13.afternoon we are organising a test day for the full range of Kudos Bikes,including our latest Kudos Ibex Crank Drive bike and several KTM Bosch powered crank drives.

The event is centred on the Wetton Mill tea rooms,allowing leisurely test riding along the Manifold Trail and a more challenging route up to Butterton village and Wetton village.

Hope this is of interest,will be a good opportunity to try many different bike types with different price points.

Please check your PM.

KudosDave

 

Thanks Dave, I've made a note of the date and will endeavour to get there.

 

JimB

Nuvinci is a bad idea.

The new model has a freewheel, so the rear wheel spins like on a normal bike but the transmission loss is still around 18%. If you ride unpowered, it's hard work.

 

Thanks for your input Trex, in my ignorance of this technology I feared that might be the case but haven't been able to find any reports.

 

Having said that, if the bike really does manage 112 miles in ideal conditions, unpowered drag is a bit academic:eek:

Hi Jim,

 

Price for Nuvinci version is £2399. I have not ridden this type of system before but am aware of people noticing drag. Range depends very much on how you use the bike. I normally half the range quoted but it is largely dependant on assistance level used and terrain as well as rider weight and weather (longer range in warm, sunny weather). Happy for you to send me an email (dw@electrifyingcycles.co.uk) or private message for more information or give us a call. We have three KTM bikes in stock currently. Macina HS is also good which has hub gears and derailleur (SRAM Dual drive).

 

dw

 

Thanks again David

 

I'm going to give this thread, and everyone who has helped, a rest until I've done some more research.

 

I'll create a new thread in the proper place if I need any more info.

 

Thanks again.

 

JimB

Good idea and good luck. DW

Thanks for your input Trex, in my ignorance of this technology I feared that might be the case but haven't been able to find any reports.

 

Having said that, if the bike really does manage 112 miles in ideal conditions, unpowered drag is a bit academic:eek:

 

Derailleurs don't lose much power through friction, hub gears and the Nuvinci do.

In the case of the Nuvinci, progress in reducing friction loss depends on oil chemistry.

At the contact point, you have two oil surfaces coming into near contact, one surface is the ball and the other the input (or output) disc. The two surfaces are still separated by a little oil. This oil gap is pulled apart by the two sides, cavitation forces line up oil molecules in the gap, thus the oil behaves like a solid rod connecting ball and disc (a solid is no more than molecules that got lined up and can't move out of position). This 'rod' changes immediately back into liquid form a millimeter or so away from the contact point. When a liquid solidifies, it releases heat, widh radiates into the surrounding. This heat loss explains why friction loss of CVT is higher than mechanical (eg Shimano) hub gears.

This loss is only incurred when you ride on the flat or going uphill. Going downhill uses the freewheel.

 

NuVinci Continuously Variable Transmission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.fallbrooktech.com/sites/default/files/videos/N360_Datasheet_English_Web.pdf

http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=38578&start=30

 

JimB, if you want a crank drive hub gear step-through, you could consider the Kalkhoff Agattus which have mechanical hub gears - either Alfine 8-sp or Alfine 11-sp. They're lovely bikes and they ride just like ordinary bikes unpowered or above assist limits.

 

Derailleurs don't lose much power through friction, hub gears and the Nuvinci do.

In the case of the Nuvinci, progress in reducing friction loss depends on oil chemistry.

At the contact point, you have two oil surfaces coming into near contact, one surface is the ball and the other the input (or output) disc. The two surfaces are still separated by a little oil. This oil gap is pulled apart by the two sides, cavitation forces line up oil molecules in the gap, thus the oil behaves like a solid rod connecting ball and disc (a solid is no more than molecules that got lined up and can't move out of position). This 'rod' changes immediately back into liquid form a millimeter or so away from the contact point. When a liquid solidifies, it releases heat, widh radiates into the surrounding. This heat loss explains why friction loss of CVT is higher than mechanical (eg Shimano) hub gears.

This loss is only incurred when you ride on the flat or going uphill. Going downhill uses the freewheel.

 

NuVinci Continuously Variable Transmission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.fallbrooktech.com/sites/default/files/videos/N360_Datasheet_English_Web.pdf

http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=38578&start=30

 

 

That's interesting - so there is a downside to Nuvinci CVT relative to mechanical hub gears after all !