Now I'm wondering, come on you have to tell us what they are? Mine is a 14 year old Micra, proving I'm certainly no snob.

 

I have a Smart fortwo. No doubt you all know that Smart actually make an e bike, or have someone in Germany making them for them. I have had a little ride, they are alright but I felt its paying more for the design than the actual product. It's quality built, they have done their research, probably sat reading what Flecc had to say for months before deciding to market one and then they went and got it wrong. Perhaps you should have given them some marketing tips Flecc. Basically Smart have a low end Fortwo and a High end Fortwo car known as the Brabus. They have done the same with the bike, they have launched the low end e bike with a 200 watt motor and fairly average spec so they can later launch the high end Brabus. They haven't done their market research that well though, pricing the bike at £2500 is in the same price bracket up there with the top end electrics, and it's not difficult to work out that if you are into electric bikes, you will not buy a Smart when the high end boys have a proven track record. I am not sure they have sold any, I haven't seen one that someone actually bought on the road or you tube.

Although, batteries and other parts are readily available on most internet shopping sites. Just in case the supplier suddenly disappeared, I checked before my purchase if I could buy batteries etc from other places, that is something that anyone buying the lower end products should do.

 

The problem with batteries is that a number of e-bikes have specific within-frame placement and even inside-frame-tube placements for which only the original type fits. There are no like-for-like substitutes made for any e-bikes, the market is to small for that to have developed. Many have been let down by lack of replacements of these types and a rear carrier substitute is not really an acceptable solution, leaving an ugly empty facility and also technically beyond many to convert.

Originally Posted by flecc

I'm no high-end purchase snob, for example, of my two cars, one is a poorly regarded very cheap one but ideal for my citycar purpose so I couldn't care less what others think of it. The other car for all my other uses is so unpopular that very few people will ever see one in their lifetime!

.

 

Now I'm wondering, come on you have to tell us what they are? Mine is a 14 year old Micra, proving I'm certainly no snob.

 

That was aimed at Flecc, hence the bit of his post I quoted.

Now I'm wondering, come on you have to tell us what they are? Mine is a 14 year old Micra, proving I'm certainly no snob.

 

The city car is a Chevvy Matiz, much slated and replaced by the better regarded "Spark" model. The problem is that all the opinions are based on it's abilities as an all round car, for which it is poor, but solely as a city car there is no better one, and it's better for that than the Spark. There are many reasons for that, but I won't go into that at length here.

 

The general purpose car is a Suzuki SX4-SZ5 with three drive options, 2 wheel, Intelligent 4 wheel and locked 4 wheel drive for the worst conditions. They are built to special order only by Magyar-Suzuki in Hungary, and mine is the later phase model which I had to wait several months for. There were only 393 of them in the whole of the UK when I bought it, mostly in the more challenging regions. In the south I've never seen another, though I did once see an SX4 standard lower slung model on the road.

 

Here's one, it's bigger than it looks in photos, nearly Qashqai size in fact. Another photo, not mine.

.

Edited April 8, 201313 yr by flecc

It is just the thought of spending over twice the amount my car cost to buy on a bicycle, I'll bite the bullet one day and do it.

 

Feel the same way, Artstu - I nearly fell over in horror when I had to come to terms with what a really good bike with excellent range and scope to be pushed beyond the limitations of most others would set me back. However, on balance I don't regret spending it. The bike's done everything I wanted it to (except inspire me to climb mountains on it) and been a comfortable pleasure to ride on a daily basis.

 

The hoops I've jumped through and cash outlayed to try to create my own high quality alternative with better hill performance, equally good specs (as good as I can get them) good looks, quality touches I like / can control better and built in powered extras are VERY considerable when added up.

 

Provided the performance you get from the bike you choose suits your style, helps make your admirable goal of staying healthy, happy and active against considerable odds more enjoyable and achievable, the outlay is worth it. The car in itself does little to help any of that .

 

some people have short hobbies, they join a Gym and go for a few weeks and end up with a monthly subscription left to pay. For those type of people buying the cheaper end and upgrading later if they are not fed up and have left their bike in the shed for a year

 

Yes, it's a good point where fancy gyms are concerned - but just thought I'd point out that not all gyms insist on annual subs (mine is paid monthly, no minimum subscription, may be cancelled at any time ... and only costs £15 a month - not much more than a bottle of chain cleaning fluid from Park Tool or a packet of decent razor blades ! ). Prefer to be riding a bike than being there but both are useful for a proper balanced exercise routine, if you're not one for doing pull-ups off a door frame.

 

Everyone works on different parameters but to me, spending £699 on any bike if you're a "short hobbyist" is a heck of a lot of money and way more than I'd pay for something I wasn't committed to getting use out of. Would be cost-prohibitive for me to want to even try. You may as well buy a decent 2nd hand bike for £100 - £250 and ride it fewer miles whilst burning more calories (if that's your goal) to make sure you're committed enough to cycling at all before forking out for an eBike.

 

If you're not able to drive or not able to ride a regular bike for health reasons things are different and the decisions are easier to make - faced with a choice between a bus or your own independent transport, spending more on a good eBike makes complete sense. You're on it enough to appreciate the value of the better components.

 

If getting fit on a budget is your goal, then go for some walks - it's free ! Or unless you are averse to them, join a sensibly priced gym - you can get over 3 years' subscription many places for the price of a cheap eBike that'll probably need maintaining and looking after a fair bit. If, however, you enjoy being on a bike and getting around out in the open air then spend what you can afford to buy the best eBike your budget can justify. If you really like it and it puts a smile on your face whenever you set off on it then it's doing more than getting you fit - it's making you happy and that's a good enough reason to fork out.

Edited April 8, 201313 yr by 103Alex1

If getting fit on a budget is your goal, then go for some walks - it's free !

 

I wrote that out in a post right at the start, but didn't post it. Walking is fantastic for getting fit and keeping fit. I was a big walker in my past life, well actually I still am compared with an average person.

 

Steve getting fit isn't something you can just do this year and then forget about it, it's like dieting, it has to be a lifestyle change, something you can keep doing for the rest of your life. Find something you enjoy and keep doing it.

Steve getting fit isn't something you can just do this year and then forget about it, it's like dieting, it has to be a lifestyle change, something you can keep doing for the rest of your life. Find something you enjoy and keep doing it.

 

 

You mean I have to keep dieting for the rest of my life, the doctor never said that, he said when I get to 14 stone he will be happy. Damn, wait until I next see him.

Feel the same way, Artstu - I nearly fell over in horror when I had to come to terms with what a really good bike with excellent range and scope to be pushed beyond the limitations of most others would set me back. However, on balance I don't regret spending it. The bike's done everything I wanted it to (except inspire me to climb mountains on it) and been a comfortable pleasure to ride on a daily basis.

 

The hoops I've jumped through and cash outlayed to try to create my own high quality alternative with better hill performance, equally good specs (as good as I can get them) good looks, quality touches I like / can control better and built in powered extras are VERY considerable when added up.

 

Provided the performance you get from the bike you choose suits your style, helps make your admirable goal of staying healthy, happy and active against considerable odds more enjoyable and achievable, the outlay is worth it. The car in itself does little to help any of that .

 

 

 

Yes, it's a good point where fancy gyms are concerned - but just thought I'd point out that not all gyms insist on annual subs (mine is paid monthly, no minimum subscription, may be cancelled at any time ... and only costs £15 a month - not much more than a bottle of chain cleaning fluid from Park Tool or a packet of decent razor blades ! ). Prefer to be riding a bike than being there but both are useful for a proper balanced exercise routine, if you're not one for doing pull-ups off a door frame.

 

Everyone works on different parameters but to me, spending £699 on any bike if you're a "short hobbyist" is a heck of a lot of money and way more than I'd pay for something I wasn't committed to getting use out of. Would be cost-prohibitive for me to want to even try. You may as well buy a decent 2nd hand bike for £100 - £250 and ride it fewer miles whilst burning more calories (if that's your goal) to make sure you're committed enough to cycling at all before forking out for an eBike.

 

If you're not able to drive or not able to ride a regular bike for health reasons things are different and the decisions are easier to make - faced with a choice between a bus or your own independent transport, spending more on a good eBike makes complete sense. You're on it enough to appreciate the value of the better components.

 

If getting fit on a budget is your goal, then go for some walks - it's free ! Or unless you are averse to them, join a sensibly priced gym - you can get over 3 years' subscription many places for the price of a cheap eBike that'll probably need maintaining and looking after a fair bit. If, however, you enjoy being on a bike and getting around out in the open air then spend what you can afford to buy the best eBike your budget can justify. If you really like it and it puts a smile on your face whenever you set off on it then it's doing more than getting you fit - it's making you happy and that's a good enough reason to fork out.

 

 

 

I thought people bought electric bikes because they struggle getting up the hills and want to get fitter. I didn't even realise until the last few days that people actually buy these bikes for other reasons. I thought this site was for wealthy unfit snobs who bought expensive toys to help them along. That's why I bought the bike and set out to inform people they can get fit on budget and don't need to spend a fortune. I still haven't grasped it though, I can't understand, if you lot on here are actually fit enough to cycle, then why don't you just buy a top end road cycle?

I cant remember exactly what route led me to buying an electric bike.

I was hedging my bets in case i wouldnt be able to drive.

 

I think I read a few threads on this forum, and was wondering about converting an existing bike to electric. But the kits seemed to cost the same or more than the bike I purchased.

 

My reasoning was that buying the cheap bike would give me something to try, something to understand what makes it different from a normal bike, and then allow for a greater better understanding if I really wanted to get more expensive.

 

I mentioned the 'snobbery'. But that must be balanced with the fact that there are many willing to give advice which has been incredibly useful.

 

On reflection, from the explanations in this thread, maybe snobbery was assumed incorrectly. But not everyone has the benefit of hindsight. Many potential ebikers are new to the concept and wont know of any historical significance to the seemingly high prices of ebikes.

I still haven't grasped it though, I can't understand, if you lot on here are actually fit enough to cycle, then why don't you just buy a top end road cycle?

 

Something that has also puzzled me Steve. Although my experience of assisted bikes goes back 62 years, I didn't adopt one myself until 10 years ago when the hills in my area got too much when trailer pulling, and later too much for solo riding as well.

On reflection, from the explanations in this thread, maybe snobbery was assumed incorrectly. But not everyone has the benefit of hindsight. Many potential ebikers are new to the concept and wont know of any historical significance to the seemingly high prices of ebikes.

 

 

I will second that, I had no idea the reasons behind why people on here buy the high end products, I now know why. Snobs the lot of ya, ha ha

Something that has also puzzled me Steve. Although my experience of assisted bikes goes back 62 years, I didn't adopt one myself until 10 years ago when the hills in my area got too much when trailer pulling, and later too much for solo riding as well.

 

I found it a bit odd too, my experience has been that had I been healthy I'd have been faster on an ordinary bike, save for perhaps some of the steeper climbs (just)

Find something you enjoy and keep doing it.

 

'til you get caught.

'til you get caught.

 

I work in prosection in the ticket issue section and thanks to you lot on here taking up all my time today, I have only issued 3 into Court. Also, thanks to you Flecc, Artsu and all the others, I now know more about electric bikes and trailers than anyone else in this building. It's home time for me now, another day complete.

I still haven't grasped it though, I can't understand, if you lot on here are actually fit enough to cycle, then why don't you just buy a top end road cycle?

 

Well, there are many reasons but for starters because :

 

1) We may as well be living in the Alps owing to the fact that every journey requires navigation of exhausting hills and even regular cyclists short of sport-mad masochists get fed up of slogging it every time they go out for a ride;

 

and

 

2) Because some of us ditched our cars, rely on our bikes for pretty much everything day-to-day and you cannot load up a carbon road bike with 6 litres of water, 3 bags of oranges and the rest of your shopping and get it back home up the hill (or readily tow a trailer with all that stuff on it) without wondering what in the name of all that's unholy you're actually playing at. A sturdy e-bike is a good compromise without resorting to a cargo bike

 

With additional personal size can come additional muscle capability to power more bike weight. Those of us who are small feel it more when we have to play Asterix rather than Obelix getting an unpowered loaded bike around and still be where we're supposed to be 'on time' ! Even with 2 eBikes, I'm still in the gym as a way of life when opportunity permits keeping strength up enough to keep on riding when I inevitably soar beyond the power assist levels in a very short time

Edited April 8, 201313 yr by 103Alex1

I will second that, I had no idea the reasons behind why people on here buy the high end products, I now know why. Snobs the lot of ya, ha ha

 

 

I must add though after undoubtedly meeting some members yesterday, even though I didnt publically announce myself, they did seem sort of normal. Mostly :o

 

2) Because some of us ditched our cars, rely on our bikes for pretty much everything day-to-day and you cannot load up a carbon road bike with 6 litres of water, 3 bags of oranges and the rest of your shopping and get it back home up the hill (or readily tow a trailer with all that stuff on it) without wondering what in the name of all that's unholy you're actually playing at. A sturdy e-bike is a good compromise without resorting to a cargo bike

 

You could order your food from Tesco Direct, there's a snob who lives across the road from me who does that. Maybe she's not a snob, I think I saw a Tesco bike getting delivered one day.

You could order your food from Tesco Direct, there's a snob who lives across the road from me who does that. Maybe she's not a snob, I think I saw a Tesco bike getting delivered one day.

 

I do for large stocks of stuff, but never really bought into all that for fresh food. If they could be trusted to bring stuff that wasn't expiring within 2 days of being delivered, or turning up with what you actually ordered, that's an option. But most of the time I can't be bothered to wait in for them only to have to go out shopping after they've left (as happens almost every time). I like to see and pick what I buy especially fresh fruit & veg. Seeing as I'm out shopping for that, paying for supermarket deliveries on top has never become a regular thing for me.

 

It's just an illustration of many things you bring home on a bike or take out with you. I order a heck of a lot through mail order (no choice) but one way or another my bike's usually loaded up with a lot of stuff. Road bikes are for sport or people who commute to offices with a secure place to store them at the other end and an iPad in a rucksack .. or a computer at work.

 

They have next to no practical use in the rest of day-to-day life bar popping in to pick up a sandwich and a soft drink for a rucksack.... and hoping they're still there when you come out because you've no way of sensibly carrying about any serious security equipment to protect your astronomically expensive bicycle when you turn your back for 10 minutes !

1) We may as well be living in the Alps owing to the fact that every journey requires navigation of exhausting hills and even regular cyclists short of sport-mad masochists get fed up of slogging it every time they go out for a ride;

 

While I was fit enough to ride without assistance up to the age of 67, I used to revel in the hills in the North Downs. On one route I rode most days, I sometimes looped one section to tackle a particularly difficult hill twice just for the enjoyment of climbing it. I also enjoyed storming certain not too long circa 10% hills with the aim of cresting the top at 20 mph just for the kicks, and even earned some admiration from a lycra one day when doing that. It was frustrating when age finally called a halt to some of those antics. So obviously we are all different in this respect, and I've certainly never been a sports-mad type, indeed I've never played in a team game in my life. For me e-assistance has just been a necessary evil and not as much pleasure as many get from it.

I do for large stocks of stuff, but never really bought into all that for fresh food. If they could be trusted to bring stuff that wasn't expiring within 2 days of being delivered, or turning up with what you actually ordered, that's an option. But most of the time I can't be bothered to wait in for them only to have to go out shopping after they've left (as happens almost every time). I like to see and pick what I buy especially fresh fruit & veg. Seeing as I'm out shopping for that, paying for supermarket deliveries on top has never become a regular thing for me.

 

It's just an illustration of many things you bring home on a bike or take out with you. I order a heck of a lot through mail order (no choice) but one way or another my bike's usually loaded up with a lot of stuff. Road bikes are for sport or people who commute to offices with a secure place to store them at the other end and an iPad in a rucksack .. or a computer at work.

 

They have next to no practical use in the rest of day-to-day life bar popping in to pick up a sandwich and a soft drink for a rucksack.... and hoping they're still there when you come out because you've no way of sensibly carrying about any serious security equipment to protect your astronomically expensive bicycle when you turn your back for 10 minutes !

 

I was joking, you would need to look back over my posts about snobbery to get the joke. Anyhow, I actually admire you adapting so well without a car, buses or taxi. Do you use the Kalkhoff to do all the towing? How is it on the hills?

I'm hoping to try a KTM this Saturday.

 

Is this the Kudos KTM? If it is, this is a great bike, put in on Turbo mode and you want another go! I tried this at Redbridge yesterday not knowing what it was. I had a go at the 29er version it was very smooth and managed 28mph on the flat, even though it has knoblies the other version has smoother tyres and I bet it can go even faster. Climbing was really good impressive bit of kit.

While I was fit enough to ride without assistance up to the age of 67, I used to revel in the hills in the North Downs. On one route I rode most days, I sometimes looped one section to tackle a particularly difficult hill twice just for the enjoyment of climbing it. I also enjoyed storming certain not too long circa 10% hills with the aim of cresting the top at 20 mph just for the kicks, and even earned some admiration from a lycra one day when doing that. It was frustrating when age finally called a halt to some of those antics. So obviously we are all different in this respect, and I've certainly never been a sports-mad type, indeed I've never played in a team game in my life. For me e-assistance has just been a necessary evil and not as much pleasure as many get from it.

 

I think you get a lot of pleasure from this forum though, so that makes up for what you miss out on.

Is this the Kudos KTM? If it is, this is a great bike, put in on Turbo mode and you want another go! I tried this at Redbridge yesterday not knowing what it was. I had a go at the 29er version it was very smooth and managed 28mph on the flat, even though it has knoblies the other version has smoother tyres and I bet it can go even faster. Climbing was really good impressive bit of kit.

 

I don't think I can fit on this one sadly.

My son his cycling from Liverpool to Leeds down the towpath next month for charity. Not on an electric bike though. It must be great to be young and fit. 15.5 miles is just great, are you using all the battery power??. One thing I was wondering, can two batteries be fitted with a switch to turn one off and start the second battery? I have a bottle battery on mine and could fit an additional battery on the rear. If its possible.

 

Tell him to take plenty of kit for puncture repairs with him as he will definitely need it if they have been trimming the hedges as is normal at this time of year.

While I was fit enough to ride without assistance up to the age of 67, I used to revel in the hills in the North Downs. On one route I rode most days, I sometimes looped one section to tackle a particularly difficult hill twice just for the enjoyment of climbing it.

 

It does indeed depend on the person - you don't need to do team sports to be very sporty, flecc - marathon runners are a prime examples. You have to enjoy hard physical exercise to actually enjoy riding up steep hills.

 

I don't mind short bursts of effort but long very steep hills over a mile and my ride is suddenly not enjoyable - more of a horrid experience of physical discomfort and racing heart rate.

 

That's probably lack of fitness - but it burns too many calories to train out of it. Chicken & egg. 10 days unable to stick to 3000-calorie/day weight maintenance diet and work outs after the accident and I lost 8% of my body weight leading back to the BMI of an Eritrean. It'll take me 2-3 months to put it back on again working around other commitments and plans.

 

Lots of miles of cycling and lots of unassisted hills = same result. We each have our individual factors to work around. Sustaining a healthy weight and not having your ribs showing through means more to me than having a high level of cardiovascular tolerance, so unassisted hill slogging and long rides aren't going to be something that's actually net beneficial to me. It's all about balancing things and the eBikes help very much sustain that balance.

 

I was joking, you would need to look back over my posts about snobbery to get the joke. Anyhow, I actually admire you adapting so well without a car, buses or taxi. Do you use the Kalkhoff to do all the towing? How is it on the hills?

 

Ah - must confess I did skim the thread somewhat :o. Been a little over 6 months since car went and I've taken one taxi, 3 trains ... and an ambulance . A handful of trips out with family in a car but that's only when I go out into the sticks and don't have a bike there. That'll change soon hopefully too.

 

Kalkhoff is likely about as good as any competing legal eBike on hills, but (I suspect like all the others) only OK on hills up to a certain speed and for a limited time before being unable to give enough to sustain the assistance on very long steep climbs as you tire.

 

I'm not talking a steep slope in town - get annoyed with myself if I drop below 14mph on those - I'm talking those ones that look near vertical when you hit them and go on, and on, and on for miles...... The ones Lycras are seen dismounting and walking their road bikes up. To keep up any sort of pace you wind up working against little resistance but at a higher cadence in low gear and after a time that gets very tiring, your pulse starts to race, your mouth dries up and if you're out of training you feel like blacking out or being sick. Well, I do anyway - and it doesn't take more than a few days of not doing it to lapse back to having to start 'training' again. Most frustrating.

 

That said it's one of the best climbers over shorter distances you can buy. Steep car park ramps etc. for example and you don't even feel it. Blooming comfortable too and in more normal terrain would be pretty perfect for touring.

 

I don't use a trailer. Whatever I can't fit in 70L of panniers and a huge rack bag doesn't get bought and I do without or order in. Probably saved a fortune - which is just as well since my mail order expenditure had quadrupled and have ended up spending well over £5 on bikes and associated stuff in 6 months. So much for saving money on account of not having a car lol.

Edited April 8, 201313 yr by 103Alex1