Hi,

 

Ok, here is a bit more infomation.

 

The KTM Macina Action I was riding was an MTB, with MTB tyres on it, if I was going to do this experiment properly or even actually buy an eBike to commute normally I'd put on some slick tyres. This would mean that riding over the assist speed, and indeed under the assist speed would be considerably easier.

 

I've put three rides onto this image.

 

all three were ridden in very similar conditions - ie horrible, wind and rain.

 

I've added the picture to a facebook link, so you can view it here:

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=254559118039456&set=a.194359744059394.1073741831.193414864153882&type=1&theater

 

or this might be big enough to view.

 

 

so my conclusion, having actually done the rides.... is

 

if I aim for the same time, I can achieve it with a LOT less effort.

 

Or if I'm trying to save time, I can do that pretty easily.

 

I'll try it again in a few weeks when I've got one of the new hub drive Panasonic KTMs to play on, this will have semi slick tyres, and I'll be interested to see what the difference is.

 

Certainly for me, I can see the relevance of using an eBike as a commuting tool.

Good results, and thanks for sharing. It would be interesting to compare those results with something like an Ezee Torque, which I think is much better suited to commuting a journey like that. You'd probably do the journey faster and with less effort because you can get the power without having to pedal so hard, and you can get better power from a start.

I've just had a good look at that bike, and I'm afraid there is no way on this earth I'd personally ride one of them, even if it saved me 10 minutes.

 

or am I looking at the wrong bike? Can you send me a link so I'm sure I'm understanding your suggestion correctly.

 

it doesn't look like it would even last 10 minutes, let alone ride 100+ miles a week in horrendous conditions.

 

I might be a snob, but I'm pretty sure I'm not alone (well I know I'm not alone because I've spent years in the cycle industry)

 

I like to have fun riding my bike and I don't think I could have fun riding anything that weighs that much. I might be a snob, but I'm afraid I am very typical of lots of customers.

 

The claimed weight that I could find...

 

Weight: Only 27kg (59lbs) Including Battery

You mind is in the wrong frame of reference. Presumably, you have a sports biking background, so you've chosen a sports bike to commute on, which isn't ideal. I think if you tried the Ezee Torque, which is much better suited to commuting, you'd get a rather pleasant surprise, and you'd change your mind, unless of course you are a snob. Do you have an iPhone or an iPad, in which case you probably are anyway?

 

You don't have to worry about the weight because the motor has plenty of torque. Also the extra weight helps maintain a higher unassisted speed on the down-hill bits. Plus, it improves the ratio of sprung to unsprung weight so that the suspension works better. Most of the extra weight is in the battery so that you can go further with more power. I doubt that the Bosch battery would last the return journey if the motor was giving you as much assistance as the Ezee one.

 

Hopefully, you'll be able to make it to Redbridge in a few months time, where you will have a chance to try a lot of different types of electric bikes so that you will have a more balanced view in the future.

I didn't choose the bike to commute on, it was just one we had here.

 

I will choose something a bit more suitable in a week or two when it comes back from eCyclist magazine, and post up the comparisons, because it will be a hub driven bike with more of a commuter focus. This was pretty much always going to be a worst case first attempt, to see what impact it had.

 

The bike you've suggested might have more power up to the threshold, but you've not provided any links so I'm still not sure exactly what you're talking about.

 

I've not seen the stats, but I simply wouldn't ride a bike that heavy, with components that I'd not trust, and I'd not want to be riding round here on a bike that heavy with mechanical disc brakes.

 

http://www.cyclezee.com/ezee-torq-mk3.html

 

is a link I've just found...

 

it states the range as just 40 miles, so it wouldn't even get me home and back I suspect.

 

and I'm not going to make any comments about Apple... but I suspect the size of their market suggests that if the eBike industry wants to achieve anything it could do worse than look at their styling and marketing.

 

Are you suggesting that eBikes would sell more if they didn't appeal to people?

The way I see it a MTB style ebike with quality components and versatility of being able to switch slick to MTB tires for commuting or trailing is a better option than some other types of bikes being discussed here.

 

The lighter the better of course. That is certainly not snobbish.

but I simply wouldn't ride a bike that heavy, with components that I'd not trust, .....

 

it states the range as just 40 miles, so it wouldn't even get me home and back I suspect.

 

Are you suggesting that eBikes would sell more if they didn't appeal to people?

 

There's no need not to trust it. Ezee have been making solid dependable ebikes for a very long time. If you go right back to the start of the forum in 2006, Ezee was the most recommended bike. How long have KTM been making electric bikes, and when did Bosch start with their motors, which haven't been entirely problem free? I don't remember there being any systematic problems with Ezee motors.

 

I wouldn't take too much notice of that range. A strong pedaller like you should be able to double it at least. 40 miles is for old farts like me that can't be bothered to pedal hard, if at all.

 

I'm not sure where you got your last conclusion from. You said that you might be a snob. I was giving you a simple test to verify whether you are or not. If you're still not sure, I can give you some other things to look for, but from what you've said so far, I think you already know the answer.

Edited January 14, 201412 yr by rsscott

I'm not sure where you got your last conclusion from. You said that you might be a snob. I was giving you a simple test to verify whether you are or not.

 

I have a basic phone that makes calls, sends text messages and has a torch on top. However I like to ride good bicycles. That Ezee torq is not comparable to a good bicycle. I'm not a snob though as your simple test proves I'm not.

I don't have a mobile phone or a tablet but I am having an R & M Delite, but then I have always been contrary.

There's no need not to trust it. Ezee have been making solid dependable ebikes for a very long time. If you go right back to the start of the forum in 2006, Ezee was the most recommended bike. How long have KTM been making electric bikes, and when did Bosch start with their motors, which haven't been entirely problem free? I don't remember there being any systematic problems with Ezee motors.

 

KTM have been making eBikes since the 90's, so they have VERY good experience, they have just never previously been pushed in the UK.

 

I'm not sure where you got your last conclusion from. You said that you might be a snob. I was giving you a simple test to verify whether you are or not. If you're still not sure, I can give you some other things to look for, but from what you've said so far, I think you already know the answer.

 

I was simply suggesting that there are many reasons why people choose to buy expensive well designed products, and you deciding to judge someone based on the brand of their phone or the priorities they allocate to the bike their choose to ride is probably unfounded.

 

Some people like to buy nice things, that doesn't make them a snob.

 

The reasons I'd not buy / ride the Ezee bike, are to do with the weight and my experience of bikes with components and suspension forks of that quality. They wouldn't cope with my riding style, or mileage.

 

However I suppose I am a snob, because even if that bike was £4000.00 and dripping in top quality component brands, and weighed next to nothing, I'm afraid I'd still not ride it just because of the way it looks.

I've just had a good look at that bike, and I'm afraid there is no way on this earth I'd personally ride one of them, even if it saved me 10 minutes.

 

or am I looking at the wrong bike? Can you send me a link so I'm sure I'm understanding your suggestion correctly.

 

it doesn't look like it would even last 10 minutes, let alone ride 100+ miles a week in horrendous conditions.

 

I might be a snob, but I'm pretty sure I'm not alone (well I know I'm not alone because I've spent years in the cycle industry)

 

I like to have fun riding my bike and I don't think I could have fun riding anything that weighs that much. I might be a snob, but I'm afraid I am very typical of lots of customers.

 

The claimed weight that I could find...

 

Weight: Only 27kg (59lbs) Including Battery

Hi KTM,

 

Sorry but I don't know your first name.

 

I had not read this post until it was alluded to in another thread earlier today.

 

I quite understand that the eZee Torq might not be everybody's cup of tea and is clearly not yours, although I wonder if you have ever ridden one?

 

From what you say, I assume that you know little about the eZee brand in general, but I can assure you that they last much longer than 10 minutes, in fact they have achieved some epic rides, across Australia, South Africa, China etc., covering thousands of miles in much harsher conditions than we have to cope with here in the UK.

 

I quite understand your bias in favour of KTM, that is your job.

 

Regards,

Yes, I forgot about that Australia trip. To alleviate any doubts about the durability of Ezee bikes, have a look at this. Have any KTMs or similar electric bikes completed journeys like that? Enjoy the read:

 

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=52355

people who buy German bikes: want 250% assistance, generally good in bed

people who buy Chinese bikes: want 900% assistance, generally lazy in bed

Here you have your test, no need for an ipad.

people who buy German bikes: want 250% assistance, generally good in bed

people who buy Chinese bikes: want 900% assistance, generally lazy in bed

Here you have your test, no need for an ipad.

So which category are you in Trex;)

I am good when it's warm and sunny, otherwise needing a fair amount of assistance.

I am good when it's warm and sunny, otherwise needing a fair amount of assistance.

in bed?

I am good when it's warm and sunny, otherwise needing a fair amount of assistance.

 

Reliable batteries are essential:D

Hi KTM,

 

Sorry but I don't know your first name.

 

I had not read this post until it was alluded to in another thread earlier today.

 

I quite understand that the eZee Torq might not be everybody's cup of tea and is clearly not yours, although I wonder if you have ever ridden one?

 

From what you say, I assume that you know little about the eZee brand in general, but I can assure you that they last much longer than 10 minutes, in fact they have achieved some epic rides, across Australia, South Africa, China etc., covering thousands of miles in much harsher conditions than we have to cope with here in the UK.

 

I quite understand your bias in favour of KTM, that is your job.

 

Regards,

 

Hi ,

 

Sorry, I forget that our login isn't just for me. A few of us in this office post. I really should try to remember to get everyone to sign off the posts so people know who they are speaking to.

 

My name is Colin Williams and I own FLi.

 

D8veh, suggested that a bike would be much better for the commute than the one I'd used. I'm more than happy to admit there are probably loads that are better for the commute. Many of them made by KTM, but also many made by other brands. I'm most definitely not biased towards KTM. I sell them, but I can always appreciate that customers and me included in this might have needs that another brand might fulfill better.

 

All I was doing was replying to D8veh and try to explain why I personally wouldn't buy or ride a bike like the one he suggested.

 

I appreciate lots of people do, and i'm sure the bike is great for them, and as you've shown its capable of traveling long distances.

 

When I say it wouldn't last 10 minutes with me, and I'd not trust the components for my riding, I'm basing this on the way I ride and my experience. I dont need to have tried the bike to know this.

 

This is the type of riding I do:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICf7TEj_g0w

 

On my commute home for instance there is a cattle grid that I hit at about 40 miles an hour, there is a small hump in the road before it and use this hump to give me enough lift to clear the cattle grid and hit the next section of road at full speed.

 

I've been racing mountain bikes for 20 years including 2 seasons of world cup downhill. So if I'm going to be riding any eBike I need to know that if I hit a pot hole at 50mph on a road downhill or have to brake sharply because a sheep jumps out etc etc.

 

These are the reasons I want top quality branded suspension fork, and high quality components because I know its what I need.

 

I'm not slagging off your brand, I'm just saying its not for me, and many like me, and for d8veh to assume its just because I'm a snob I find insulting, which is why I've picked holes in his suggestion.

 

there are many eBikes that I love the idea of that aren't KTM, so I'm not blinkered.

 

If the poster had suggested I try one of these, I'd have loved a good discussion about them.

 

http://enduro-mtb.com/en/haibike-xduro-fs-rx-pro/

 

or even

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=147XR7aiWeI

 

but had someone suggested an electric road race bike, which is actually what would be perfect for my commute, I'd have wanted disc brakes, tyres that aren't going to puncture every time, and I'd have expected any shop to upload of video of a bike thats actually set up properly. That video makes the bike look rubbish.

 

Anyway I'm waffling now, so I'll leave it that. I hope you can see why the bike suggested isn't for me, and that I'm not being harsh or snobish, I'm just justifying my reasons, so that d8veh can see its not just "because its not a KTM"

 

If you need me to clear anything else up please don't hesitate to let me know.

 

I set this thread up to show people the actually impact riding an eBike can have for a certain type of cyclist, so I hope we can get back to discussing that, because it was never about the brand of bike really.

 

Regards

Col

Hi,

 

Sorry, I forget that our login isn't just for me. A few of us in this office post. I really should try to remember to get everyone to sign off the posts so people know who they are speaking to.

 

My name is Colin Williams and I own FLi.

 

D8veh, suggested that a bike would be much better for the commute than the one I'd used. I'm more than happy to admit there are probably loads that are better for the commute. Many of them made by KTM, but also many made by other brands. I'm most definitely not biased towards KTM. I sell them, but I can always appreciate that customers and me included in this might have needs that another brand might fulfill better.

 

All I was doing was replying to D8veh and try to explain why I personally wouldn't buy or ride a bike like the one he suggested.

 

I appreciate lots of people do, and i'm sure the bike is great for them, and as you've shown its capable of traveling long distances.

 

When I say it wouldn't last 10 minutes with me, and I'd not trust the components for my riding, I'm basing this on the way I ride and my experience. I dont need to have tried the bike to know this.

 

This is the type of riding I do:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICf7TEj_g0w

 

On my commute home for instance there is a cattle grid that I hit at about 40 miles an hour, there is a small hump in the road before it and use this hump to give me enough lift to clear the cattle grid and hit the next section of road at full speed.

 

I've been racing mountain bikes for 20 years including 2 seasons of world cup downhill. So if I'm going to be riding any eBike I need to know that if I hit a pot hole at 50mph on a road downhill or have to brake sharply because a sheep jumps out etc etc.

 

These are the reasons I want top quality branded suspension fork, and high quality components because I know its what I need.

 

I'm not slagging off your brand, I'm just saying its not for me, and many like me, and for d8veh to assume its just because I'm a snob I find insulting, which is why I've picked holes in his suggestion.

 

there are many eBikes that I love the idea of that aren't KTM, so I'm not blinkered.

 

If the poster had suggested I try one of these, I'd have loved a good discussion about them.

 

http://enduro-mtb.com/en/haibike-xduro-fs-rx-pro/

 

or even

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=147XR7aiWeI

 

but had someone suggested an electric road race bike, which is actually what would be perfect for my commute, I'd have wanted disc brakes, tyres that aren't going to puncture every time, and I'd have expected any shop to upload of video of a bike thats actually set up properly. That video makes the bike look rubbish.

 

Anyway I'm waffling now, so I'll leave it that. I hope you can see why the bike suggested isn't for me, and that I'm not being harsh or snobish, I'm just justifying my reasons, so that d8veh can see its not just "because its not a KTM"

 

If you need me to clear anything else up please don't hesitate to let me know.

 

I set this thread up to show people the actually impact riding an eBike can have for a certain type of cyclist, so I hope we can get back to discussing that, because it was never about the brand of bike really.

 

Regards

Col

 

Bunny hopping cattlegrids?

 

Good stuff.

 

I often get off and push, particularly on the Brommie with its little wheels.

 

On a more serious note, I do not like the way posters on here are almost forced into apologising for liking good quality equipment.

 

The suggestion one has to be snob to like a nice bike is moronic.

...... and for d8veh to assume its just because I'm a snob I find insulting, which is why I've picked holes in his suggestion.

 

I didn't assume that you're a snob and it's completely wrong of you to say that I did. You need to retract that statement. It was you that suggested that you might be, so I gave you a toungue-in-cheek method for you to self-determine whether you are.

 

 

I might be a snob

From a physics point of view the stored energy of the battery would only help your type of riding if applied on only uphill stretches, the extra weight of the ebike components would help on the downhill but would be negated by the flat sections.

the extra weight of the ebike components would help on the downhill but would be negated by the flat sections.

 

You're the second to have posted as such in the last couple of days, Galileo would be wondering why he bothered to climb the Pisa tower!

 

Acceleration due to gravity is irrespective of weight.

 

The only theoretical gain would be in overcoming friction (negligible) and rolling resistance (low). Since the additional weight as a proportion of the total weight of bike and rider is very small and acting on such limited gain factors, the total gain is below anything that can be observed by a rider.

Since the additional weight as a proportion of the total weight of bike and rider is very small and acting on such limited gain factors, the total gain is below anything that can be observed by a rider.

 

A phyical again of potential energy at the top of the hill due to increase weight is still a again no matter how small if my understanding of physics has not left me.

is still a again no matter how small if my understanding of physics has not left me.

 

No, but there is a danger your common sense has left you.

 

As flecc says, any gain is so small as to be irrelevant.

Yes, as I said, a theoretical gain. My point is that it's not worth mentioning if a rider cannot observe it.

 

N.B. Crossed with Rob's post.