January 17, 201412 yr Author 50 miles and 4 hours is one heck of a commute, in and around Halifax are some serious hills and you are still going to have to peddle pretty hard to get up some of them. I realise it's going against the spirit of the forum but would you not be better with a moped or light motorcycle? Maybe not so bad if you don'y have a physically demanding job at the end of it. Good for you and full respect if you decide to do it. That's partly why I am still considering the A2B Metro as that is basically a moped but one you can take on the bicycle lanes and towpaths. Was thinking in terms of biking it that I would introduce myself over time to the full bike commute. Going to heading from Halifax to Leeds so will cycle to Bradford and get the train in from there at first, then try and get to Pudsey, then Bramley and finally do the full stretch on the bike.
January 17, 201412 yr Have to love Tim's tunnel vision. The Kalkhoff was recently outperformed in the mountains by a KTM with a panasonic hub drive. The review was posted above by KTM Bike Indistries. Having ridden all the bikes in question this system is hard to beat. Why not test a Bosch powered bike, Panaosnic hub drive, new Neo drive (A2B) and Impulse and decide for yourself. You know what, a Focus bike with Xion motor (same as in the Pro Connect Xion) beat the KTM in a mountain test run by the German E-Bike magazine last year, achieving a greater distance and reaching a higher elevation than the KTM. If you buy an electric bike without trying a Kalkhoff or Focus, it's unlikely you've bought the best bike.
January 17, 201412 yr I will also look to have a try on the KTM bikes too. I'd do more than just try it. Insist that you do your full ride on it in both direction. After all without knowing anything about your age or fitness level, KTM have claimed that you can carry out your journey with ease using 400%power mode.
January 17, 201412 yr The bike in that test was the Jarifa Premium with Xion motor and 15.5Ah battery pack. A more comfortable option for use on the road is the Pro Connect X27 - I expect that would thrash the KTM as well, and comes with lights, mudguards etc as standard.
January 17, 201412 yr Author I am sure both the KTM and the Kalkhoff/Focus would do equally well for what I want it for based on the specs and reviews I have seen
January 17, 201412 yr The bike in that test was the Jarifa Premium with Xion motor and 15.5Ah battery pack. A more comfortable option for use on the road is the Pro Connect X27 - I expect that would thrash the KTM as well, and comes with lights, mudguards etc as standard. Tim your opinion is always biased in favour of your own bikes whereas I can at least admit other bikes are good . The other test was more recent so more relevant. I expect you are wrong but until there is a more recent unbiased opinion it is open to debate. I could equally say the KTM would thrash the Focus but I prefer to be more honest. I respect alot of members on here trade and others particularly if they are honest enough to admit bike they do not sell are good. It is about the right bike for the person and this means it can often vary.
January 17, 201412 yr Cheers David. Going to go to the Electirc Transport Shop in York and test a few out. I will also look to have a try on the KTM bikes too. No problem. I want you to get correct bike even if you are not buying a bike from us! When buying your first bike it is always better to try some out, after that you may not need to as you will have a better idea of what you want/need, although it is still advisable.
January 17, 201412 yr I'd do more than just try it. Insist that you do your full ride on it in both direction. After all without knowing anything about your age or fitness level, KTM have claimed that you can carry out your journey with ease using 400%power mode. Hi.... how else would he test it? We're not going to make an offer and then tell him he can only ride it one way lol....we ride the eBikes all the time in the hills around here (we're very close to Halifax) so we know what the bikes can take. The eCross P has a range of 120km, and one is due back from eCyclist magazine next week, so I'm sure there will be a UK based independent review for everyone to read soon. Obviously we do other models with mud guards or crank driven if thats what someone might need. But we're not going to get involved in an "our bike is better than your bike" type debate on here - it benefits no one, and makes us all a bit childish and desperate, which is not something we are. We were just trying help a customer who is local to us arrange a test ride. Its then up to customers / magazines to make up their minds what suits them best. Clearly everyone has different needs or priorities and budgets, so we'd never be arrogant enough to suggest we know best. We're here to offer advice and support our dealers.
January 17, 201412 yr Was thinking in terms of biking it that I would introduce myself over time to the full bike commute. Going to heading from Halifax to Leeds so will cycle to Bradford and get the train in from there at first, then try and get to Pudsey, then Bramley and finally do the full stretch on the bike. I used to live in Pudsey, if you can get to there, there is a canal path all the way right to the centre of Leeds, very handy for the commute into the city.
January 17, 201412 yr I am sure both the KTM and the Kalkhoff/Focus would do equally well for what I want it for based on the specs and reviews I have seen They're both torque-multiplication systems with no throttle, so no chance of giving your legs a rest on a long journey like that, which becomes even more significant when you have the wind against you. You need to think all this through. If your aim is to have a proper work-out on your ride to and from work, or if you're used to pedalling hard for 2 hours at a time, disregard these comments.
January 17, 201412 yr Author I used to live in Pudsey, if you can get to there, there is a canal path all the way right to the centre of Leeds, very handy for the commute into the city. Yes...I was looking to pickup the Leeds Liverpool canal at Saltaire in Bradford which should make it somewhat easier for that portion of the ride.
January 17, 201412 yr The eCross P has a range of 120km, Is that with the 47v 8.8aH battery (440wH)? If so, it equates to 5.87 wH/mile, which is equivalent to an average of about 70w for the whole 120km, or about 1.4 amps. To climb steep hills you need about 600w with hard pedalling, or 1200w with light pedalling. It's the same old thing that I thought we'd bottomed out on this forum: You can either pedal yourself and go a long way, or use the motor to help you and go not so far. The more power you get from the motor, the less distance you can go. No smoke and mirrors or amounts of love can change that. All range claims by any supplier are absolutely meaningless, and shouldn't be used for any comparison purposes.
January 17, 201412 yr Author Is that with the 47v 8.8aH battery (440wH)? If so, it equates to 5.87 wH/mile, which is equivalent to an average of about 70w for the whole 120km, or about 1.4 amps. To climb steep hills you need about 600w with hard pedalling, or 1200w with light pedalling. It's the same old thing that I thought we'd bottomed out on this forum: You can either pedal yourself and go a long way, or use the motor to help you and go not so far. The more power you get from the motor, the less distance you can go. No smoke and mirrors or amounts of love can change that. All range claims by any supplier are absolutely meaningless, and shouldn't be used for any comparison purposes. To be honest it terms of range claims I just use them a vague idea about which ones may be best to try out and see for myself how quickly the battery runs dry under my weight, style of riding, terrain etc. Not dissing the dealers or manufacturers as there are so many variables involved that even if someone was doing fully scientific tests they might prove to go much shorter or longer in reality. I found the same with cars and their Miles Per Gallon claims.
January 17, 201412 yr It's worse with ebikes because the range is affected by how hard you pedal. Some systems force you to pedal hard, so that the proportion of power that you provide is higher. Not surprisingly, they tend to go further than ones where you can take a rest and let the bike do the work.
January 17, 201412 yr Author It's worse with ebikes because the range is affected by how hard you pedal. Some systems force you to pedal hard, so that the proportion of power that you provide is higher. Not surprisingly, they tend to go further than ones where you can take a rest and let the bike do the work. Yes that is a good point...One thing I liked about the Volt bikes was that you could actually vary the way the assistance came in and set you own power levels. I did find it funny actually looking at the looking at the number of bikes that have the Bafang 8FUN 250W motor and very similar batteries seemed to do very dissimilar distances...and yes I know this depends on the rider, the way the controller is setup, etc etc but it shows the complexity of what should be comparing what should be apples with apples.
January 17, 201412 yr Is that with the 47v 8.8aH battery (440wH)? If so, it equates to 5.87 wH/mile, which is equivalent to an average of about 70w for the whole 120km, or about 1.4 amps. To climb steep hills you need about 600w with hard pedalling, or 1200w with light pedalling. It's the same old thing that I thought we'd bottomed out on this forum: You can either pedal yourself and go a long way, or use the motor to help you and go not so far. The more power you get from the motor, the less distance you can go. No smoke and mirrors or amounts of love can change that. All range claims by any supplier are absolutely meaningless, and shouldn't be used for any comparison purposes. I wonder what power is required to offset the additional weight of the electric bits? If it's anywhere near 70 watts.....
January 17, 201412 yr All range claims by any supplier are absolutely meaningless, and shouldn't be used for any comparison purposes. Which is why we only claim what is possible in the real world by the average human being who needs assistance.
January 17, 201412 yr Author I wonder if the British Electric Bicycle Association could pull together all their members and invest in a joint system that would use the Google mapping API details to allow customers to see what the likely distance they could travel on the specific bikes with different batteries and power settings. The Google API already has all the data on distance, elevation and bicycle paths. If the manufacturers were to input the speeds, battery usage on different elevations it should give purchasers as accurate a possible way of comparison. Such a system could also allow the user to know how long each route would take, and compare how much they would save on fuel vs a car etc. Does this sound like a good idea? I would have no idea about how to program this as it would go way over my database skills but I could help someone to spec this out if any of the companies in this thread like to take this forward at all with the BEBA/on their own at all?
January 17, 201412 yr Woosh have one http://wooshbikes.co.uk/clearway.php I also found this one accurate for me http://www.electricbikerange.info/Electric_bike_range.html
January 17, 201412 yr It's very simple. The more watt-hours in the battery, the more help you get from it. You can use those watt-hours slowly with a little bit of help or fast and get a lot more help. The factors that affect efficiency of the system are too insignificant to make a significant difference. The difference between the systems can make a difference to range by giving you more or less help than you need in some situations, but not significant difference in efficiency depending on how you define efficiency.
January 17, 201412 yr Author Woosh have one http://wooshbikes.co.uk/clearway.php I also found this one accurate for me http://www.electricbikerange.info/Electric_bike_range.html I like both but I think the second one is brilliant...I will try this with a number of different bikes I am thinking about. Still not going to 100% but gives a good idea
January 17, 201412 yr I wonder how something like this would fit into the required spec. http://www.ebay.de/itm/Haibike-eQ-XDURO-Trekking-SL-HR-RGr-52-27-G-SRAM-Elektrofahrrad-Bosch-400WH-NEU-/271368099567?pt=Sport_Radsport_Fahrrad_Anh%C3%A4nger&hash=item3f2ecc96ef
January 17, 201412 yr This will climb you hills but won't get you to work unless you buy a bigger battery. It is poorly titled so might go cheap: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191034097316?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649 totally illegal ofcourse:rolleyes:
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