Twangman.....that already exists....their is a nice electric moped sold under the Sachs group in Germany. I presented it on this forum and there was a luke warm reaction.

I think that most don't want it to look like a moped,they still want it to look like a bicycle.

But you cannot have it do everything,although it would look like a bicycle,in the eyes of the law it would be a moped,with the restrictions of highway use only,no cycle tracks.

You would have to make a choice,an e-bike with power to climb hills without pedalling,highway use only. Or,an e-bike restricted to 15,5 mph and 250 watts but you could use anywhere.....I suppose it comes down to individual priorities.

As an experiment,Kudos had built a 48v x 500 watt bike,based u with 23 mph ability and climb 10% hills ,12 stone rider,using throttle only. With normal terrain and rider input it would range about 20 miles on a 500 Wh battery.

It would need lots of tweaking to type approve as a moped.

KudosDave

what is more criminal? 1) you go into the LCD and change the speed limit or 2) you drive at 85mph on the M25 or French toll motorways or 3) use one of these on the pavement?

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzIwWDcyMA==/z/6GwAAOSw~gRVqKvE/$_35.JPG

 

Trex.... you do realise legality is a line in the sand... once you cross that. Everything is illegal.

 

Lines in the sand change with time, and I'm sure the eBike law will continue to evolve. However once you cross that line, you are breaking the law, so there is nothing that is more or less criminal. Its a fixed definition, they are all equally criminal.

 

However if you're asked which is more socially acceptable, or more risky, or more likely to cause you problems, or more likely to get caught or be punished. These are all different questions.

what is more criminal? 1) you go into the LCD and change the speed limit or 2) you drive at 85mph on the M25 or French toll motorways or 3) use one of these on the pavement?

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzIwWDcyMA==/z/6GwAAOSw~gRVqKvE/$_35.JPG

I get where you're coming from (I find 20 to 25 mph on a pedelec more or less ideal), the last time I checked the limit on French motorways (toll roads at least) were 85 mph (of course that, and the lower accident rate on them than UK ones) argue for higher average speed limits (bearing in mind I guess that French toll roads are exponentially better and safer than anything here)

we know the police are unlikely to take action (unless someone is involved in an accident) in all three examples from me and one from d8veh. Let's leave the consequences aside if there were an accident because I am sure we are all old enough for that.

There will be a new moral problem very soon, when the full throttle becomes illegal. I bet some of you can't wait.

what is more criminal? 1) you go into the LCD and change the speed limit or 2) you drive at 85mph on the M25 or French toll motorways or 3) use one of these on the pavement?

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NzIwWDcyMA==/z/6GwAAOSw~gRVqKvE/$_35.JPG

By criminal if you mean number of offences committed it would be No 1...you have converted your bicycle into a motorbike and thus are using a motorised vehicle which is not registered,not taxed,not insured,no crash hat,failure to display,no number plate and no registration plate.....most would not drive a car onto the highway and commit such offences but the offence is the same.

KudosDave

by 'criminal', I mean morally reprehensible, a villain, a delinquent, a sinner within our middle class bourgois society and should be singled out and ticked off at the next parish councillors' meeting.

the last time I checked the limit on French motorways (toll roads at least) were 85 mph

 

Has the speed limit been changed in France since I last drove there? From memory, the maximum speed permitted is (was?) 130kph except when raining when it is (was?) lowered to 110kph.

 

Recently, it was reported that the French authorities were cracking down on speeding foreign motorists, most of whom are driving UK registered cars.

 

Tom

Has the speed limit been changed in France since I last drove there? From memory, the maximum speed permitted is (was?) 130kph except when raining when it is (was?) lowered to 110kph.

 

Recently, it was reported that the French authorities were cracking down on speeding foreign motorists, most of whom are driving UK registered cars.

 

Tom

no, that's as I remember it too (130 km/h, which strictly, is 80.77 mph, but practically with speedo error means one hammers along at 85 on the speedo and 80 on the satnav, although, in the sprit of this thread, the French should probably put up signs on the motorways saying the speed limit is 80.778 mph...).

 

the French do measure4 average speed between toll roads using number plate recognition - so one cant average more than the maximum without getting in trouble. But curiously I find 80 to 85 just perfect in a car on a motorway, much as I find 20 to 25 mph on a pedelecs.

I often ride at +20 mph on my pedelec, it cuts out at around 16.75 mph (15.5 +10% tolerance) and I provide the extra Watts to take it up to that speed on the flat.

 

That is just fine around town but I would like 45 kph assist on the open road, I would like to be able to ride up hills at 20-25 mph - motor Watts + my Watts. And no limit on downhill runs - the S-pedelec or moped law would limit me to 45 kph. My no suspension 26" bike gets a little hairy over 55 kph which is the speed at which I start thinking about gloves and helmets and body armour (bike jacket). I think I would feel at ease at 40 mph on a S-pedelec with a bike helmet and some gloves. Just from looking at pictures you can tell that they have been designed for handling that kind of speed. Much more secure than a small wheel scooter.

 

All of the above leads one direction - a tadpole trike pedelec. 25 kph climbing speed and nerves are the limit downhill. Or a pedelec assisted vélomobile - assist to 25 kph then pedal to 50-60 kph on the flat, we don't have the nice roads of Austria so no +110 kph down hill runs possible around here...

I think this could possibly be my next ebike

http://currietech.com/izip-electric-bikes/izip-e3-twn-exp-u-5

The full throttle offence is going to be so difficult for the police to prosecute,bicycles don't usually have a sales date and checking whether it's a legal 4 mph throttle or an illegal full speed throttle and whether the bike has type approval or not?

I think most police would be busy elsewhere.

KudosDave

all the vendors of bikes with torque sensors will be pleased.

The full throttle offence is going to be so difficult for the police to prosecute,bicycles don't usually have a sales date and checking whether it's a legal 4 mph throttle or an illegal full speed throttle and whether the bike has type approval or not?

I think most police would be busy elsewhere.

KudosDave

in my neck of the woods the police don't have enough time to come out after most burglaries (and don't deal with vandalism at all), if I really want to p*ss off my local community protection officer I should shove my converted raleigh twenty under her/his nose and insist on them checking its throttle..

The speed is set un the LCD. If you have the "set" button, press and hold it, otherwise it's the plus and minus buttons. Once you're in the settings, you'll soon figure out what button does what.

Hi

I have tried the set button, but the lcd seems to display wheel sizes and circumferences, I can`t seem to get any further ?.

As for the speed issue, I managed a indicated 40 mph down hill over the weekend, the bikes so heavy compared to my ultra light mountain bike and faster.

A motorcycle is not a moped, a moped in its definition has a power limit so there is no way you can call it a motorcycle. I would think the same would be true for a pedelec. If the dealers are so knowledgeable why don't they know what classification a pedelec with a 250 w motor rated at over 15 mph is and also motors with a higher wattage. The Sinclair C5 stuck to certain limits, but that was before the EU got involved, have things changed since back in the 80s

Abbott....the importers of e-bikes are as confused as everybody else,why our government just didn't sign up to EN15194 I don't understand,we would have a level playing field with the rest of Europe.

This allowance to have throttles with type approval is a distraction, for most of the UK importers are small companies and these e-bikes change models so often that type approval is not practical on our small volumes.

My e-bike supplier forces me to have the same spec as mainland Europe and is not really interested in producing a full speed throttle option.

I will continue to supply bikes to EN 15194 and pretty much ignore whatever comes out of the DfT,we are supposed to be part of Europe.

I will continue to supply throttles with a set of fitting instructions as service items to pre 2016 models that historically had a throttle,if my customers choose to buy those throttles and fit them to post 2016 models,well it's a free country,there's nothing to prevent them.

KudosDave

I often ride at +20 mph on my pedelec, it cuts out at around 16.75 mph (15.5 +10% tolerance) and I provide the extra Watts to take it up to that speed on the flat.

 

I am assuming you are providing all the watts at 20mph, and not just the extra ones, as there would be zero assistance!

From 27 kph up to 32 kph I am providing all the Watts. The ones that I had saved up between 0 and 27 kph

Your bike must be different than mine, because on mine, the motor cuts off at around 15mph, so I am providing 100% of the effort above that speed.

??? That is what I just said above -> 27 kph 100% of Watts.

Here's a question. Why has the US come up with a 750w (wattage I know I know) rule that allows 20mph (if that's actually correct).

 

Is it a historical thing or are the American regulators actually cleverer or more stupid then us?

"Bigger" riders?

"Bigger" riders?

very good point - since cars power/torque isn't limited by law but related to their weight/acceleration, why isn't it the same with ebikes? why should eric pickles have to put up with the same nominal 250 watt I do when he's trying to shift four times as much mass and as a result not able to reach 15 mph (let alone climb hills)?

Their allowed power is 750w maximum. Ours is 250w nominal continuous rated power, which is about the same.

 

Think about the old Heinzmann motor with a nominal continuous rating of 200w. It gets 28 amps at 36v (actually 42v max), which is 1176w maximum input power. With an efficiency of about 75%, that will be 882w of output power.

 

Your average 250w Bafang at 15A is 504w maximum output power and some high torque bikes, like Woosh and Ezee run at 20 amps with efficiencies of around 80%, which is 672w maximum output. There's nothing to stop you from increasing the current further.

According to Grin Technologies, with a 20amp controller and 36v battery the Bafang BPM is 79.7% efficient and produces 65 Nm peak torque in comparison the figures for the eZee motor are 81.2% efficiency and peak torque is 80 Nm.