o what fun they will be

Right. I have it all now, straight from the horse's mouth. The Stromer ST2 is certified and type approved to L1e. It's supplied with a certificate of conformance and all the necessary paperwork to register it as a class L1e vehicle, so you're buying an L1e moped the same as if you buy one of those imported petrol ones that are provided with similar paperwork for self-registration. Here's an example of one of those:

http://www.directbikes.co.uk/motorbike-faqs.html#register

 

Apparently, they're selling rather well, and there's been a waiting list, but new stock is imminent, so get one while you can if you have a spare £5000.

 

Just to make it clear, these are not S-pedelecs. They're properly designed electric vehicles that meet or exceed all the requirements of L1e. It just happens that they look a bit like a bicycle.

 

Presumably class L1e-B, just to make it clear and differentiate it from the lower speed L1e-A class

 

D8veh....but even a cursory glance at the ST2 reveals it cannot be registered as an L1e-A,it doesn't have a proper motorbike headlamp,indicators,number plate plus I am sure many other details.

The bike that has the correct German type approval is the Sachs Prima e,as you can see this has all the features that you would expect of an electric moped.

The same applies to the Kalkhoff,Bulls these may have type approval of some type in Germany but that approval cannot be directly transferred to obtain UK light moped approval.

Which is why nobody has managed to register these bikes.

It should be possible to design a bicycle looking (as opposed to moped looking) L1e-A 1000 watt electric bicycle....do you fancy having a go? The danger is it may look ugly,a pastiche of product that don't sit well together.

KudosDave

Someone's going to have to put their £5000 down. It's out of you and Flecc, Dave. Ip dip dogs sh.......................................

D8veh....but even a cursory glance at the ST2 reveals it cannot be registered as an L1e-A,it doesn't have a proper motorbike headlamp,indicators,number plate plus I am sure many other details.

The bike that has the correct German type approval is the Sachs Prima e,as you can see this has all the features that you would expect of an electric moped.

The same applies to the Kalkhoff,Bulls these may have type approval of some type in Germany but that approval cannot be directly transferred to obtain UK light moped approval.

Which is why nobody has managed to register these bikes.

It should be possible to design a bicycle looking (as opposed to moped looking) L1e-A 1000 watt electric bicycle....do you fancy having a go? The danger is it may look ugly,a pastiche of product that don't sit well together.

KudosDave

L1e-a limited to 16 mph and needs to be tamper proof.

D8veh....but even a cursory glance at the ST2 reveals it cannot be registered as an L1e-A,it doesn't have a proper motorbike headlamp,indicators,number plate plus I am sure many other details.

 

Dave

 

Yes it does have a dipping Supernova headlamp with daytime running lights which can be fitted to any moped, Supernova is marketing it to petrol powered moped manufacturers too. Indicators are not mandatory on mopeds in France there is a numberplate holder with plate lighting and brake lights working with both brake levers and a moped approved rear view mirror as well as special build tyres with a speed rating. It also has rounded brake levers and Magura moped approved hydraulic disk brakes and the list goes on.

 

It really is a moped with an electric motor as d8veh said.

Someone's going to have to put their £5000 down. It's out of you and Flecc, Dave. Ip dip dogs sh.......................................

 

I could do, but I don't want one, I'd get no value from an S class bike, I prefer to be well below 20mph most of the time when cycling.

 

Stromer are clearly confused. The law 2002/2004/EC has never existed, I assume they mean 2002/24/EC. However, being from 2003, that long predates the ST2. If the ST2 really had been type approved to L1e-B, it would have been to 168/2013.

 

These details alone tell me that there's something suspicious about their type approval to L1e-B, the certificate of conformity they have seems the same as that 50cycles have for the Kalkhoffs, which is for the S class.

.

Edited May 5, 20169 yr by flecc

Dave

 

Yes it does have a dipping Supernova headlamp with daytime running lights which can be fitted to any moped, Supernova is marketing it to petrol powered moped manufacturers too. Indicators are not mandatory on mopeds in France there is a numberplate holder with plate lighting and brake lights working with both brake levers and a moped approved rear view mirror as well as special build tyres with a speed rating. It also has rounded brake levers and Magura moped approved hydraulic disk brakes and the list goes on.

 

It really is a moped with an electric motor as d8veh said.

 

But odd they are not showing it in that form? Also, why so wrong about the type approval details, see my post just above.

 

I'm satisfied that the bikes shown on their website are not type approved as shown. As the saying goes, seeing is believing, and I'll believe it when they advertise and show a type approved model.

.

Edited May 5, 20169 yr by flecc

For some time now I’ve been trying to get written clarification out of the VCA on the procedure to type approve to L1e-A and L1e-B so that I can pass that on through Pedelecs, fruitlessly it has to be said. Verbally I was told by someone at the VCA along the lines of “there is no problem in type approving a 15.5mph full throttle e-bike to L1e-A and its automatic lighting requirement” but getting that in writing has proved elusive so far. I’ve emailed him again today.

 

Hi Helen,

 

Try direct emailing Claire Rees or Mike Lowe at the DfT, they should know the answer as they have been the UK representatives at the MCWG meetings and should be fully aware of the latest requirements. The next one is due on the 11 May 2016 ( the scheduled one for April appears to have been cancelled) where it looks like they will be finalizing the 4 delegated regulations.

 

I don't know who represents the UK at the Expert meetings as there doesn't seem to be any transparency to publish the minutes of these meetings where the list of attendees can be found.

 

Timetable for the 4 delegated regulations - from the Jan 16 expert meeting:

 

5.Timing amendments (2/3)

 

• Amendments Delegated Acts RVFSR, RVCR and REPPR

 

Member State (MS) expert meeting (endorsement):28 Jan 16

Inter-service consultation:9 Feb 16

Translation:Feb - April 16

EC adoption:May 16

Objection period Council and EP (2 months):June-July 16

Publication and entry into force:August 16

 

6.Timing amendments (3/3)

 

• Implementing act RAR

 

• Second presentationin MSEG meeting:28 Jan 16

• Inter-service consultation:Jan–Feb 16

• Translation:March–May 16

• Vote TCMV meeting:June 16

• EC adoption and publication in OJ:July 16

• Entry-into-force:August 16

 

 

I can not find any details of these meeting past or present - TCMV meeting:June 16

Edited May 5, 20169 yr by shemozzle999

If the bike comes with a CoC it should ( big word) be fairly straight forward.. It won't be..

So first question would be does the bike in question have a CoC ????

 

If not its not end of world (more so if we leave Europe)

Under pressure from very low volume kit car priducers(.ie they,d go bust) there was ( is) a way around for partial MSVA.( essentially benefitting home builders but car/ bike can not be reg out side UK)

I thought scheme was still operating.

( ie builders I know using it are sttill going.

Edited May 5, 20169 yr by (NoLongerRegistered#15675)

the bikes come with CoC for 's-pedelec' but the type 's-pedelec' is not legal in the UK, the type approval certificate is not valid here.

You could think it's an anomaly but it's not. Traffic control is left to member countries.

L1e-a limited to 16 mph and needs to be tamper proof.

I keep saying tamper proof.I can't find that in the MSVA manual now.I'm sure that I read that some where. I even had a plan how to make my display tamper Proof.You got to laugh at the 16 mph,can't find any info on 10% extra.And I thought the speedometer had to be tested to be within 5% accuratce,can't find that now.

I keep saying tamper proof.I can't find that in the MSVA manual now.I'm sure that I read that some where. I even had a plan how to make my display tamper Proof.You got to laugh at the 16 mph,can't find any info on 10% extra.And I thought the speedometer had to be tested to be within 5% accuratce,can't find that now.

 

Tamper proof is specified in the full Type Approval Law requirements.

.

If I

the bikes come with CoC for 's-pedelec' but the type 's-pedelec' is not legal in the UK, the type approval certificate is not valid here.

You could think it's an anomaly but it's not. Traffic control is left to member countries.

 

If I wanted to do one I,d go and see an examiner at a station. They have to enforce "laws" but its always been my experience they want to get you through test. ( one helped me change brake discs)

They are really down to earth , most ex mechanics.

Could be the CoC for a partial ( ie UK only) would be sufficient to reg as light moped. ??? Rules might say different but those on coal face might bend a bit..Worth a visit. There are stations all over.

Could be the CoC for a partial ( ie UK only) would be sufficient to reg as light moped. ??? Rules might say different but those on coal face might bend a bit..Worth a visit. There are stations all over.

 

No chance, as those who've tried and had to jump through hoops to succeed have showed.

 

The problem is the omissions. If an S class bike is presented, it lacks the following mandatory items:

 

Rear View Mirror to spec.

 

Stop light operating from either brake.

 

Rear number plate illumination.

 

Moped type horn.

 

Motor vehicle rated tyres.

 

No tester valuing his job will nod though a bike without mandatory items. In any case it would be irresponsible since it would leave the owner liable to prosecution for using in that state. After all, any bike with a number plate will be a traffic police magnet, and they won't fail to notice the omissions.

 

In addition to the above, S class bike headlights don't normally meet the L1e-B beam requirements.

.

Edited May 5, 20169 yr by flecc

All this can be put on any bicycle.The problem is just the tyres for a 26"/700cc etc.If you use a 20" wheels you can get motorcycle tyres.

 

Sent from my D101 using Tapatalk

All this can be put on any bicycle.The problem is just the tyres for a 26"/700cc etc.If you use a 20" wheels you can get motorcycle tyres.

 

Sent from my D101 using Tapatalk

 

Yes, these features can be added if someone has the knowledge, but the point is that as supplied the S class bikes have not been type approved as is being claimed.

 

That will put any prospective owner to a lot of trouble and expense to modify and get SVA. In any case, there is no SVA possible for L1e-B at present, and no prospect of one before 2018.

.

No chance, as those who've tried and had to jump through hoops to succeed have showed.

 

The problem is the omissions. If an S class bike is presented, it lacks the following mandatory items:

 

Rear View Mirror to spec.

 

Stop light operating from either brake.

 

Rear number plate illumination.

 

Moped type horn.

 

Motor vehicle rated tyres.

 

No tester valuing his job will nod though a bike without mandatory items. In any case it would be irresponsible since it would leave the owner liable to prosecution for using in that state. After all, any bike with a number plate will be a traffic police magnet, and they wont fail to notice the omissions.

 

In addition to the above, S class bike headlights don't normally meet the L1e-B beam requirements.

.

 

Been out of all this a while now ( its why I stopped and did stuff not needing sva/ registration)

Used to find the practical stuff you could cope with , if they accept the CoC essentially for wrong group you can sort it..

There always ways around issues you can sort with spanners...

( We once got an race prepped R1 engine through emissions running two Cats , water injection and a customised power commander, a few lights and switches should be ok, speed rated tyres might be more difficult)

Like I said earlier , stupidly all SVA stuff can then come off afterwards..legally. Just keep stuff for mot...

Its bonkers.

About £200 for parts and test,depending where you get them from.This thread is about has any one tried to register a S- class.There has only been about 3 L1e-B's on here all homemade.I can only find one L1e-A and that's petrol driven.There could be more and maybe some scooters.I know the S- class is not up to scratch.

 

Sent from my D101 using Tapatalk

This might be another way round ?

Not sure,but don't enduro bikes have there own L class in the MSVA.Over to KTM on this one.Scores on the doors homebuilt 4, big boys O,Chinese scooters unknown so they get nil.

 

Sent from my D101 using Tapatalk

Would an emtb not qualify as enduro class? What excludes it ? I,d guess speed rating for tyres again ? Removes all problems with lights etc..

Again I,d be taking one to a station after down loading requirements and having a read. No probs with emmisions .. Cant see why not but you are right KTM would know regs and rules...

Def worth a try.

If you are thinking of it, hurry up tho. If there is a loophole there they,ll soon fill it..

Edited May 5, 20169 yr by (NoLongerRegistered#15675)

I keep saying tamper proof.I can't find that in the MSVA manual now.I'm sure that I read that some where. I even had a plan how to make my display tamper Proof.You got to laugh at the 16 mph,can't find any info on 10% extra.And I thought the speedometer had to be tested to be within 5% accuratce,can't find that now.

 

Those are in the testing section: 10% for factory built and 5% for one off.

 

The problem is the omissions. If an S class bike is presented, it lacks the following mandatory items:

 

Rear View Mirror to spec.

 

Stop light operating from either brake.

 

Rear number plate illumination.

 

Moped type horn.

 

Motor vehicle rated tyres.

 

 

I disagree with you on this flecc, all of these components are on the s-class bikes I have seen for sale except for the horn:

 

- b+m rear view mirrors are seen on most photos of s-pedelecs.

- Many companies use a Supernova on the front and a b+m light on the back, the Supernova has low beam/high beam and dayligh running LEDs.

- Magura MT5e brakes (lever with ball ends and brake light switch)

- and Schwalbe makes approved tyres, you can even buy them for your bike!

I disagree with you on this flecc, all of these components are on the s-class bikes I have seen for sale except for the horn:

 

- b+m rear view mirrors are seen on most photos of s-pedelecs.

- Many companies use a Supernova on the front and a b+m light on the back, the Supernova has low beam/high beam and dayligh running LEDs.

- Magura MT5e brakes (lever with ball ends and brake light switch)

- and Schwalbe makes approved tyres, you can even buy them for your bike!

 

Maybe in France, but not in the UK. Here the few S class bikes like the Kalkhoffs have only some of these fitted and until very recently none. The Kalkhoffs have always had a number plate bracket and have recently added a mirror but the headlight doesn't appear to be the right type. The brake levers may be with stop light switches, that I don't know. There's obviously a lot to do to get one up to the standards.

.

Edited May 5, 20169 yr by flecc

Day time reg.has no lights..

Speedo is an easy fix..loads of firms do pulse modifier. ( a legal use of dongle ) We had to put adjustable one on car, examiner fine for you to adjust during test. But easy to make accurate with gps.

The error has to be high BTW...cant read slow...( ie if it says 30 and you are doing 31 fail.....if it says 31 and doing 30 fine..)