I have always liked Portillo - he is to me a would be good conservative leader.

 

I missed that TV show but probably wouldn't have watched it anyway, had I known it was on, as I don't care for the arrogant manner of Neil. Unusually for me, I actually agree with your view on Portillo as I think he has more considered opinions on a range of issues which, to me, mark him down as centrist or slightly left-wing within the tory party.

 

My understanding is, however, that he has certain peccadillos beyond his admission of homosexual liaisons as a young man, (so I have been informed) which, in the conservative party would forever preclude him becoming leader. I can't vouch for the veracity of what I have heard alleged and many might say, 'Does it matter?'

 

As he has been out of parliamentary politics since 2005 and now has a successful and lucrative career in the media, I shouldn't think he is likely to return to politics any time soon.

 

Tom

Social media users have been having a field day with the PM's visit to the palace:

 

 

 

 

Tom

.. there is a value in having a second house in parliament eg a senate , which ideally would be less partisan than the house of people's representatives. However termed.

It can be structured in a more reflective way so that legislation gets reviewed and amended.

It could be structured to represent the institutional requirements of society eg. CBI, engineering council, armed forces, police, major sporting bodies , Medical and nursing councils , arts council.

 

You have just described exactly why a second chamber does not work in practice 'Danidl'. With so many 'interest groups', instead of designing the finest example of a racehorse, the huge committee involved produce a camel!

 

'Ideally would be less partisan' is a lovely notion but I wouldn't want to hold my breath for that to come to fruition.

 

Tom

Since I heard the government's 'offer' towards EU citizens currently domiciled in the UK, I have been mulling it over trying to decide whether or not it is in fact fair and realistic.

 

My inclination, as one who spends considerable time in the EU mainland countries, is that it fails to achieve what those citizens really need to know. It also jeopardises the position of UK citizens domiciled in other EU states as the EU have already offered them better assurances than May and her party seem prepared to provide by way of reciprocation. That might not be on the table too long, at this rate!

 

Thankfully, there are interest groups concerned over the ramifications of this whole 'Brexit' nonsense who share my fears:

 

eu-expats-condemn-theresa-may-pathetic-offer-on-brexit-rights

 

Tom

Yesterday was the longest day; it was also the day that the Daily Mail denied the accusation of 'fanning the flames of Islamophobia and racism'.

 

There is only one Daily Mail that I know of:

 

 

Tom

Yesterday was the longest day; it was also the day that the Daily Mail denied the accusation of 'fanning the flames of Islamophobia and racism'.

 

There is only one Daily Mail that I know of:

 

[ATTACH=full]19870[/ATTACH]

 

Tom

Oh Tom! you are not being Fair to the Daily Mail!

After all it must be a HUGE IMPROVEMENT over this earlier Front Page, surely

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Blackshirts.jpg

 

The details of their Fascist past are here

I urge everyone to read it fully to see just how "Patriotic" this paper really is, and ask why do they support Brexit? what's in if for these Fascists?

 

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/tle-pick/revealed-the-extent-of-the-daily-mails-support-for-the-british-union-of-fascists/28/10/

This bit is truly Delicious!

"

The story, bylined to Viscount Rothermere, praised Mosley for his “sound, common sense, Conservative doctrine”, and pointed out that: “Young men may join the British Union of Fascists by writing to the Headquarters, King’s Road, Chelsea, London, S.W.”

 

For a full six months, the Daily Mail was overtly sympathetic to the Black Shirts until a rally at the Kensington Olympia, in the summer of 1934.

 

However, the Daily Mail did not drop its support for Mosley’s BUF wholly because of their ‘violence’ and ‘intolerance,’ as Pendlebury claims.

 

Rothermere – whose dynasty still own the news group – told Adolf Hitler himself that real reason was because Jewish advertisers in the UK threatened to pull the plug on his paper.

 

It is not often that news stories rely on the testimony of Hitler to back-up facts. But in this case, the Fuhrer’s words are compelling indeed.

 

 

Credit where it's due Tom!

Edited June 23, 20178 yr by oldgroaner

Further to my previous missive at post #16665, it seems that the DWP has really got the 'ump with Harry and indeed the whole scrounging family.......

 

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/royal-familys-benefits-withdrawn-20170622130123

 

Tom

Further to my previous missive at post #16665, it seems that the DWP has really got the 'ump with Harry and indeed the whole scrounging family.......

 

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/celebrity/royal-familys-benefits-withdrawn-20170622130123

 

Tom

Very Droll , Tom. Better class of fake news than we get from the other papers, at least it's funny and topical!

And in other news, from Brussels we discover that David Davis has cocked it up again and embarrassed the nation by a crass attempt at pointing out to the EU team that if weren't for the UK...........

 

.....davis-tells-room-full-of-people-who-can-speak-german-that-theyd-all-be-speaking-german-if-it-wasnt-for-us
-20170622130106

 

Tom

Bit late, shouldn't you have listened to warnings of where voting for Brexit would lead?

On your own head be it.

But you had to make a bet in the hope of profit didn't you?

There's an easy way to restore peace but no one has the guts to do it.

Cancel Brexit, it's dead in the water anyway.

 

Yep , it probably is. Heseltine said as much other night, but your tone and attitude in post almost perfectly reinforces my point, perhaps you could have found a spelling mistake to correct to emphasise your assumed superior knowledge...

 

When has calling folk concrete heads not been an insult ? It cant possibly be true can it OG..??

As regards Royalty I do believe that a large proportion of the English population are endowed with a wide streak of subservience and have a desperate need to look up to someone......anyone really... and it matters not a jot or tittle who these are, be they of German origin or Greek origin matters not. As long as they procreate and produce over-dressed children for the public to drool over and Oooo and Ahhhh....and for BBC announcers to smile in a sickly and sycophantic fashion then everything is just fine. Never mind the Food Banks on every High Street or the young people struggling to find a home as these details are inconsequential when the loyal subjects have the Royals to worship and adore.

In this day and age I find it hard to believe that a system still exists in which certain people are elevated due to their "Royal blood" and that a pernicious class system, a class system which has done untold harm to Society, has been built on the basis of this disgusting and archaic charade.

And in other news, from Brussels we discover that David Davis has cocked it up again and embarrassed the nation by a crass attempt at pointing out to the EU team that if weren't for the UK...........

 

.....davis-tells-room-full-of-people-who-can-speak-german-that-theyd-all-be-speaking-german-if-it-wasnt-for-us
-20170622130106

 

Tom

Spoof surely, but the sort of Goof he would make! How is his "Argument of the summer over trade talks first" coming along?

When has calling folk concrete heads not been an insult ? It cant possibly be true can it OG..??

My actual words are

"behaving as if they do indeed have brains of concrete,"

 

Do try to read the written word, you do understand English I trust?

The first "calling folk concrete heads" was your spin on that, not my statement wasn't it?

Do you understand the difference between describing a behaviour and describing a person?

Apparently not.

Oh Tom! you are not being Fair to the Daily Mail!

After all it must be a HUGE IMPROVEMENT over this earlier Front Page, surely

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Blackshirts.jpg

 

The details of their Fascist past are here

I urge everyone to read it fully to see just how "Patriotic" this paper really is, and ask why do they support Brexit? what's in if for these Fascists?

 

http://www.thelondoneconomic.com/tle-pick/revealed-the-extent-of-the-daily-mails-support-for-the-british-union-of-fascists/28/10/

This bit is truly Delicious!

"

The story, bylined to Viscount Rothermere, praised Mosley for his “sound, common sense, Conservative doctrine”, and pointed out that: “Young men may join the British Union of Fascists by writing to the Headquarters, King’s Road, Chelsea, London, S.W.”

 

For a full six months, the Daily Mail was overtly sympathetic to the Black Shirts until a rally at the Kensington Olympia, in the summer of 1934.

 

However, the Daily Mail did not drop its support for Mosley’s BUF wholly because of their ‘violence’ and ‘intolerance,’ as Pendlebury claims.

 

Rothermere – whose dynasty still own the news group – told Adolf Hitler himself that real reason was because Jewish advertisers in the UK threatened to pull the plug on his paper.

 

It is not often that news stories rely on the testimony of Hitler to back-up facts. But in this case, the Fuhrer’s words are compelling indeed.

 

 

Credit where it's due Tom!

 

Spouting stuff like ruins this thread. Its sort of comments that would get you ushered out of question time by Dimbleby...and rightly so.

My actual words are

"behaving as if they do indeed have brains of concrete,"

 

Do try to read the written word, you do understand English I trust?

The first "calling folk concrete heads" was your spin on that, not my statement wasn't it?

Do you understand the difference between describing a behaviour and describing a person?

Apparently not.

 

Just doing it again...your differentiation of comments is tenuous and pedantic. Ok you said folk had concrete for brains...its still an insult, and not called for, but you cant do any other and will not accept its dangerous, causes division and resentment. You,ve done it throughout this thread and then get shocked ( and deny it) when others start making threats of violence.

Yours and Toms attitude is dangerous, provocative and folk with your obvious intelligence should know better.

 

I wonder how you communicate in pubs and in shops etc. My guess would be trouble follows you around, and its always somebody else's fault.

Do you walk into pub and tell landlord he has concrete for brains when you disagree with him, but then again I doubt it in Hull.

Spouting stuff like ruins this thread. Its sort of comments that would get you ushered out of question time by Dimbleby...and rightly so.

Oh ho ho! you really do not like the truth to be told about the people you admire do you!

If you admire scum like these people and accpet the lies they tell you it is hardly a recommendation for your judgement is it?

Grow up for goodness sake, these are enemies of the people and that includes you too.

swallow your silly pride and face the facts, they are bad news.

As to being thrown out of question time, would take that as the highest possible compliment

Edited June 23, 20178 yr by oldgroaner

Spouting stuff like ruins this thread. Its sort of comments that would get you ushered out of question time by Dimbleby...and rightly so.

 

Are you serious? A disgusting rag of the lowest order which dishes out insulting racist filth on a daily basis, whose owners live in a tax-haven and yet seek to subvert and shape British politics........and yet you see criticism of these dreadful people as being in bad taste.

 

You just have to be a Monty Python character.....I'm convinced of it.......seriously.

Are you serious? A disgusting rag of the lowest order which dishes out insulting racist filth on a daily basis, whose owners live in a tax-haven and yet seek to subvert and shape British politics........and yet you see criticism of these dreadful people as being in bad taste.

 

You just have to be a Monty Python character.....I'm convinced of it.......seriously.

 

Where did Ii say I agree with Daily Mail. Never have , I don't give it any credit for anything. Its you lot gloryfying both its pathetic articles and affects. It has achieved nothing, apart from giving idiots something to beat leavers with.( I actually hit agree button on Tom's reference to DM but OG has to make it ridiculous.)

Perhaps you should take trouble to look at comments likes / dislikes, stop reading between lines and read comments before jumping to wrong conclusions..

Just doing again...your differentiation of comments is tenuous and pedantic. Ok you said folk had concrete for brains...its still an insult, and not called for, but you cant do any other and will not accept its dangerous, causes division and resentment. You,ve done it throughout this thread and then get shocked ( and deny it) when others start making threats of violence.

Yours and Toms attitude is dangerous, provocative and folk with your obvious intelligence should know better.

We have throughout warned you and others like you of the consequences of Brexit, yet you persist in keeping up this state of denial a attacking us for holding opposite beliefs to yours.

There is nothing more provocative, dangerous and causing division than the act of continuing to support Brexit, and your wild accusations cannot paper over the cracks that have appeared all over the idea.

The fact that you resent my comments is nothing compared to my resentment that you have willingly undermined the future of this nation and my children because you wanted to take part in a wager that might bring a short term profit, without understanding what you were doing and considering the consequences.

At the time of the rederendum it was possible that the lies and promises seemed convincing, but that failed as an argument months ago, it was and is all a ghastly mess.

Worse still you haven't learned from your mistake and simply will not under any circumstances reconsider.

Give up with this holier than thou rubbish, it won't wash.

And do try to post on topic!

Where did Ii say I agree with Daily Mail. Never have , I don't give it any credit for anything. Its you lot gloryfying both its pathetic articles and affects. It has achieved nothing, apart from giving idiots something to beat leavers with.( I actually hit agree button on Tom's reference to DM but OG has to make it ridiculous.

 

Not really I simply added a little extra detail, why do you object?

This is what I get for pointing out their latest headlines were actually an improvement!

Edited June 23, 20178 yr by oldgroaner

It's difficult to take seriously these comments about those people who choose to speak out being somehow causing "division". The speakers certainly live in a different world from mine.

We have a Government that has deliberately targeted the disadvantaged in our society, the poor, the unemployed, the sick and disabled, and has subjected them to a sustained barrage of name-calling and abuse while being ably assisted by the Tory Press. The aim of this divisive campaign is clearly to divert the attention of the bulk of our population from the massive gap which exists between the poor and the rich, which is a gap ever-growing on our society and they do this while those responsible for the collapse of the economy are awarded millions in bonuses.

If that were not enough an internal power struggle in the Tory party results in a referendum which splits the UK and casts us into an uncertain future.

All this....and yet they can call critics who speak out as "divisive"....I mean you couldn't make it up.

It's difficult to take seriously these comments about those people who choose to speak out being somehow causing "division". The speakers certainly live in a different world from mine.

We have a Government that has deliberately targeted the disadvantaged in our society, the poor, the unemployed, the sick and disabled, and has subjected them to a sustained barrage of name-calling and abuse while being ably assisted by the Tory Press. The aim of this divisive campaign is clearly to divert the attention of the bulk of our population from the massive gap which exists between the poor and the rich, which is a gap ever-growing on our society and they do this while those responsible for the collapse of the economy are awarded millions in bonuses.

If that were not enough an internal power struggle in the Tory party results in a referendum which splits the UK and casts us into an uncertain future.

All this....and yet they can call critics who speak out as "divisive"....I mean you couldn't make it up.

But......he .......DID..........

Do you walk into pub and tell landlord he has concrete for brains when you disagree with him, but then again I doubt it in Hull.

I nearly missed that little gratuitous barb at the end, well done! you just shot your argument about being insulting down in flames (in your usual manner)

And as usual didn't realise you were doing so!

By the way I don't drink, lost interest in that years ago.

Where did Ii say I agree with Daily Mail. Never have , I don't give it any credit for anything. Its you lot gloryfying both its pathetic articles and affects. It has achieved nothing, apart from giving idiots something to beat leavers with.( I actually hit agree button on Tom's reference to DM but OG has to make it ridiculous.)

Perhaps you should take trouble to look at comments likes / dislikes, stop reading between lines and read comments before jumping to wrong conclusions..

 

To be fair I did take the trouble to read your post in which you responded to a post criticising the Daily Mail by saying this :

 

"Spouting stuff like ruins this thread. Its sort of comments that would get you ushered out of question time by Dimbleby...and rightly so."

 

It does seem that you somehow regard criticism of the Mail's sordid past as being somehow off limits and not quite genteel.

I do have this feeling in my water that you keep your hanky in your sleeve and are a privately educated Art historian......am I right or am I right?

Interesting comment