I think BREXIT will be screwed up by "Team Tessa". It's time to pause and reassess. A lot has happened over the last 12 months. The landscape has changed.

 

I agree, not because I'm anti-Brexit but due to the extent of change, such things as:

 

The unexpected success of Trump, not good for our prospects for exporting more to the USA and likely to be less.

 

The failure of the right in Europe and Macron's success, both greatly strengthening the EU's unity, so not good for our negotiating prospects.

 

Russia's increasing assertiveness, emboldened by the prospect of the EU weakening with the loss of a major member and Trump's anti-NATO feelings.

 

The Electorate's rejection of Theresa May's hard Brexit line.

.

Edited June 23, 20178 yr by flecc

European medical agency.

Disscusion on the radio today about the new home for this agency. Currently located in London, it will need a new home after Brexit. OK it's only small beer in terms of employment, with 900, but pretty prestigious with very well paid executives , and with major knock on consequences , global pharma companies will want to have a presence close to it, legal firms in the vet and human health areas. You get the idea.

I'm not sure that they do represent the majority. But I do agree. I think BREXIT will be screwed up by "Team Tessa". It's time to pause and reassess. A lot has happened over the last 12 months. The landscape has changed.

 

Too right its changed. Everyone has lost the little civility we had, extremes from all over have been emboldened and feel free to express both their hate and opinions. Yed the majority of us do not act on any of the rhetoric but the less controlled ( more insane) from either end feel justified in simply appalling outbursts and even worse actions on occasion. I had the misfortune to witness a fight yesterday.( in Meadowhall)) The world has gone mad. If folk don't adopt a less confrontational ,insulting aggressive demeanour I really worry where it will end.

Time we all stopped, stepped back and thought carefully before we start insulting,putting down etc etc.

And those that did turn up are most likely the sons & daughters of the wealthy and privileged. Keen to shed a synthetic tear for people who only two weeks ago, they would have regarded as unfavourably as something stuck to the sole of their expensive shoe.

 

I was one who turned up on Wednesday which was an uncomfortably hot day in town. That fact allied to a fear on the part of some of being caught up in an another terrorist outrage probably contributed to the numbers being less than hoped for by the organisers.

 

My parents, (married long before my birth!), were neither wealthy nor privileged and any tears shed by the kind of people who mourn the victims of such tragedies are genuine. I'm afraid your cynicism is uncalled for.

 

Tom

OG

You know full well your whinging whining refusing to accept change has created situation we now find ourselves in, not in, not out, going nowhere,weak government weaker opposition. Your insulting patronizing attitude adopted from start by remainers and extreme left has fractured country.

You might blame Brexit. I blame such as OG and Tom for the divisions , which are what is damaging country far more than Brexit ever could.

Just look how folk have been treated on here, myself,Woosh,Tillson ,Tommie have all endured endless insult,patronising and put downs.

It means nothing on here,but unfortunately this same assumption that this behaviour is acceptable is seen everyday in society.

Its why we now have weakest government I can remember and still no viable alternative.

 

Absolutely right.

These people should keep their mouths tightly shut and allow the beneficial measures that this Government has set in train against these lazy, cadging single mothers, the disabled and the unemployed... to take effect for the good of the country. Too long have we put up with these whiners who see our newspaper proprietors...a fine body of tax exiles...as somehow politically biased. Being a Pornographer or owning a newspaper that once supported Nazi fascists does not mean that they do not have the interest of the Nation at heart....dear me no.

Change is always good....and if this has to be achieved by telling a few lies or plastering "Go home" on the side of a van then this is acceptable if we can can clear the Johnny foreigner from our green and pleasant land. Now....I ask you...what are a few more racist incidents in comparison to that or even a total breakdown our NHS?

Sexist pro feminist crap! Sod the queen and Britannia, what about Philip and his recurring bladder infections, poor old bugger.

.

 

As a fellow sufferer I did try to pass on my sympathies regarding his little problem but I hesitate to repeat his reply........rude doesn't begin to describe it.

I know it's difficult to come to terms with the fact that someone not noted for scholarly achievement at Eton, although he did manage subsequently to get a degree in English & The Classics at Balliol, should turn out to be so stupidly incompetent as Boris Johnson, an American by birth, just by the way.

 

Nonetheless, we are where we are with a floundering, talentless government and an incompetent PM who chose to make such a clown-like figure Foreign Secretary. It really doesn't bear thinking about but if anyone doubts this man's political incompetence, this animated video clip of his 'train-crash' interview recently should dispel any misplaced confidence in the man. It might also cause one to question the validity of his degree from Oxford!

 

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=916821081815292

 

Tom

As a fellow sufferer I did try to pass on my sympathies regarding his little problem but I hesitate to repeat his reply........rude doesn't begin to describe it.

 

He's always been noted for his lack of the social graces. I doubt he's ever been suited for his role.

 

Interesting that Prince Harry remarked that no-one in the royal family wants to be king. It doesn't surprise me, but it's the first confirmation that neither Charles nor William are keen on the prospect.

 

It could be they'd be secretly delighted if deposed on a substantial pension.

.

Absolutely right.

These people should keep their mouths tightly shut and allow the beneficial measures that this Government has set in train against these lazy, cadging single mothers, the disabled and the unemployed... to take effect for the good of the country. Too long have we put up with these whiners who see our newspaper proprietors...a fine body of tax exiles...as somehow politically biased. Being a Pornographer or owning a newspaper that once supported Nazi fascists does not mean that they do not have the interest of the Nation at heart....dear me no.

Change is always good....and if this has to be achieved by telling a few lies or plastering "Go home" on the side of a van then this is acceptable if we can can clear the Johnny foreigner from our green and pleasant land. Now....I ask you...what are a few more racist incidents in comparison to that or even a total breakdown our NHS?

 

Ok, then we don't need to stop insulting each other because "my side" are in the right...

That justifies both sides actions.

Wonder how many wars have been fought with God and "righness" on both sides.

And BTW I,m not suggesting for a moment anybody stops expressing views , quite the reverse. Its reached situation now where people are afraid of expressing their views ( from either side) depending on the company they are in. Its become tribal, almost football hooligan mentality.

And what is really worrying is when grown people with presumably adult reasonable personalities defend such behaviour.???

Edited June 23, 20178 yr by Zlatan

Still unfair of course, the other 27 countries have around 7 times our UK population, so to be propoprtional to our 1 million there, we should have 7 millions of theirs here.

.

 

no, 1 of us lives with 445 of EU27.

We should reduce the number of EU nationals to 1,000,000 * 65.5 / 445 = 147,191

That will please Mr Farage.

We should reduce the number of EU nationals to 1,000,000 * 65.5 / 445 = 147,191

 

When are you planning on moving out?

.

to achieve parity, we should encourage 23 million Britons to emigrate before March 2019.

I suggest universal pardon and compulsory transport for all our prison population for a start.

 

When are you planning on moving out?

I am not in a hurry, now the risk of hard brexit seems to have greatly reduced.

to achieve parity, we should encourage 23 million Britons to emigrate before March 2019.

I suggest universal pardon and compulsory transport for all our prison population for a start.

 

Well there were hopes of exporting more to Australia, but I don't think that was quite what Brexiters had in mind.

.

It doesn't surprise me, but it's the first confirmation that neither Charles nor William are keen on the prospect.

 

I interpreted that remark differently, coming from a man most unlikely to ever be king.

 

While I imagine that William's father, Charles, would be happy at 68 years old to avoid his royal duty in that regard, I would guess that William would jump at the chance, whether in his turn or prematurely. I have to think that Harry may have spoken out of turn and others might prefer to dissociate themselves from his comment.

 

My preferred option would be the abolition of the monarchy and house of Lords as both institutions are anachronisms, defunct and devoid of any useful purpose.

 

Tom

While I imagine that William's father, Charles, would be happy at 68 years old to avoid his royal duty in that regard, I would guess that William would jump at the chance, whether in his turn or prematurely. I have to think that Harry may have spoken out of turn and others might prefer to dissociate themselves from his comment.

 

Regardless of age, Charles has never relished the prospect since he likes to interfere in society, something he knows he will no longer be able to do once king.

 

I'm not so sure William is keen, there's been no adverse comment or qualification from the palace. Harry and William are close, so I can't imagine Harry saying "no-one in the family wants to be king", deliberately excluding William. That would be very odd.

 

Yes, he was certainly speaking out of turn, but I think he was speaking from knowledge.

.

Edited June 23, 20178 yr by flecc

Ok, then we don't need to stop insulting each other because "my side" are in the right...

That justifies both sides actions.

Wonder how many wars have been fought with God and "righness" on both sides.

And BTW I,m not suggesting for a moment anybody stops expressing views , quite the reverse. Its reached situation now where people are afraid of expressing their views ( from either side) depending on the company they are in. Its become tribal, almost football hooligan mentality.

And what is really worrying is when grown people with presumably adult reasonable personalities defend such behaviour.???

.. there is a Bob Dylan song .. "with God on our side " .. worth listening to in your current frame of mind

I interpreted that remark differently, coming from a man most unlikely to ever be king.

 

While I imagine that William's father, Charles, would be happy at 68 years old to avoid his royal duty in that regard, I would guess that William would jump at the chance, whether in his turn or prematurely. I have to think that Harry may have spoken out of turn and others might prefer to dissociate themselves from his comment.

 

My preferred option would be the abolition of the monarchy and house of Lords as both institutions are anachronisms, defunct and devoid of any useful purpose.

 

Tom

I won't express a view on the existence of royality, other than I believe in a republic, where all are citizens and all have equal rights, but I do have a view on having two chambers in the legislature.

.. there is a value in having a second house in parliament eg a senate , which ideally would be less partisan than the house of people's representatives. However termed.

It can be structured in a more reflective way so that legislation gets reviewed and amended.

It could be structured to represent the institutional requirements of society eg. CBI, engineering council, armed forces, police, major sporting bodies , Medical and nursing councils , arts council.

OG

You know full well your whinging whining refusing to accept change has created situation we now find ourselves in, not in, not out, going nowhere,weak government weaker opposition. Your insulting patronizing attitude adopted from start by remainers and extreme left has fractured country.

You might blame Brexit. I blame such as OG and Tom for the divisions , which are what is damaging country far more than Brexit ever could.

Just look how folk have been treated on here, myself,Woosh,Tillson ,Tommie have all endured endless insult,patronising and put downs.

It means nothing on here,but unfortunately this same assumption that this behaviour is acceptable is seen everyday in society.

Its why we now have weakest government I can remember and still no viable alternative.

Lets get this simple fact straight. Voting for Brexit split the country, it has nothing whatever to do with me has it?

If there hadn't been a Brexit marginal victory there wouldn't be a split would there?

Thank you for the compliment to think it was caused by Tom and I, but really, to come out with such a statement is derisory either you are simply being silly or it's a sign of a personality problem, for how do some posts on a Forum of this nature have the effect that your too vivid imagination credits them with?

Have we really reached out and touched the lives of 65 Million people?

Shouldn't you be seeking help with these strange ideas you harbour?

 

We have the weakest Government because more people like you are behaving as if they do indeed have brains of concrete, and will not bring themselves to accept they are the cause of the problem, made an awful mistake being conned into voting for Brexit and still vote for the fools who invented and sold the mad idea, instead of uniting to end their destructive careers.

Do us all a favour talk sense for once instead of this juvenile blaming others for your mistake.

The behaviour that is unacceptable is to continue to support a mad wager known as Brexit, and the malevolent faction in Parliament that instigated this madness that will harm us all.

And one might add, is ratting on the promises they made every day.

Edited June 23, 20178 yr by oldgroaner

Too right its changed. Everyone has lost the little civility we had, extremes from all over have been emboldened and feel free to express both their hate and opinions. Yed the majority of us do not act on any of the rhetoric but the less controlled ( more insane) from either end feel justified in simply appalling outbursts and even worse actions on occasion. I had the misfortune to witness a fight yesterday.( in Meadowhall)) The world has gone mad. If folk don't adopt a less confrontational ,insulting aggressive demeanour I really worry where it will end.

Time we all stopped, stepped back and thought carefully before we start insulting,putting down etc etc.

Bit late, shouldn't you have listened to warnings of where voting for Brexit would lead?

On your own head be it.

But you had to make a bet in the hope of profit didn't you?

There's an easy way to restore peace but no one has the guts to do it.

Cancel Brexit, it's dead in the water anyway.

Ok, then we don't need to stop insulting each other because "my side" are in the right...

That justifies both sides actions.

Wonder how many wars have been fought with God and "righness" on both sides.

And BTW I,m not suggesting for a moment anybody stops expressing views , quite the reverse. Its reached situation now where people are afraid of expressing their views ( from either side) depending on the company they are in. Its become tribal, almost football hooligan mentality.

And what is really worrying is when grown people with presumably adult reasonable personalities defend such behaviour.???

May I remind you that the Big supporter of Brexit The Daily Mail was on BOTH sides in the last war?

And it was their propaganda that was and is directed to support Brexit.

Like the other Murdoch rags inciting unrest in the population is circulation to them, and they are paid hansomely to do it.

By the way telling someone the truth is not "insulting" someone, even though you regard it as such.

I watched Andrew Neil's 'This Week' last night.

I have always liked Portillo - he is to me a would be good conservative leader.

His view on brexit is clear: we don't know what brexit is going to be like, but we know it won't be hard brexit after the election.

Expect the Torygraph to change their tune soon.

What's so bad about this news? Why is everyone getting a hard-on over it?

 

I think it's rather good that these EU citizens know where they stand and now have stability for the future.

 

Because up until now the "lady" has done a U-turn on everything she has said, I wouldn't be reassured if I were a EU citizen living in the UK. Without even going into the nasty little details like having all rights of being an EU citizen removed and replaced with their UK "equivalent"...

God save the queen. Rule Britannia etc etc

What does Britannia actually rule these days, I ask out of curiosity, do tell.

We have no less than 7 Patrol boats to cover 7,500 miles of coast,,and a Navy that is having either outboard motors or oars fitted for warm water operations.

What does Britannia actually rule these days, I ask out of curiosity, do tell.

 

tax havens?

tax havens?

Point taken.