I'd like to try the pinion 9 speed XR on a hub motor bike. A gear box thought out for e-bikes and their need for wider jumps between gears.

 

Another thing I am looking at is the SRAM Dual drive which solves the four levers problem replacing them with one. But I have had such bad experiences with cheap twist shifters that I have a psychological block and I love my click shifter with its smooth fast shifts. You can shift several gears at once with a clickshifter if you have the cadence right. I ride on roads only so a derailleur is an easy choice.

I'd like to try the pinion 9 speed XR on a hub motor bike. A gear box thought out for e-bikes and their need for wider jumps between gears.

 

Another thing I am looking at is the SRAM Dual drive which solves the four levers problem replacing them with one. But I have had such bad experiences with cheap twist shifters that I have a psychological block and I love my click shifter with its smooth fast shifts. You can shift several gears at once with a clickshifter if you have the cadence right. I ride on roads only so a derailleur is an easy choice.

What's the pinion 9 thing?

Agree, derailleurs perfect for road bikes.

http://pinion.eu/en/c-line/

 

These guys used to design gearboxes for BMW I think. Yes it needs a special frame... My interest is mounting one on a recumbent trike, there is a German company that provides them mounted to a boom adapted to several brands of trike.

http://pinion.eu/en/c-line/

 

These guys used to design gearboxes for BMW I think. Yes it needs a special frame... My interest is mounting one on a recumbent trike, there is a German company that provides them mounted to a boom adapted to several brands of trike.

That's the ticket! I'd like to think we'll see this integrated into electric motors in the foreseeable. Goes against the industry's ethos of marketing bikes as replaceable due to new 'advances' though.

Because efficiency. Thats why.m

 

None of the gearboxes ive used have been anywhere near as efficient at putting power down .

 

I cant say ive had the issues you have had with deraileurs.

 

My rohloff was very expensive i want to love it . Its done about 10000miles but if i was going on tour tomorrow id take deraileur gears in a heart beat.

Because efficiency. Thats why.m

 

None of the gearboxes ive used have been anywhere near as efficient at putting power down .

 

I cant say ive had the issues you have had with deraileurs.

 

My rohloff was very expensive i want to love it . Its done about 10000miles but if i was going on tour tomorrow id take deraileur gears in a heart beat.

 

I think, for me, the rohloff scores also because it's fit and forget. With upgraded (shimano xt) cables instead of standard and the transfer box packed with grease it has been literally maintenance and adjustment free. All I have to do is lube the chain. The rohloff tensioner is way more manly than any rear mech too. Derailleurs over the same time period would have required constant cleaning, lubrication, adjustment and replacement. I think because of that I forgive the rohloff an awful lot. I like to compare it to a car. If you offered people a car with a derailleur transmission (forgive the practicalities for the sake of the analogy) instead of a gearbox, who would choose it? It's true the efficiency isn't the same, the pepper grinder sensation in low gears is no fun but where you have a powerful electric motor assisting I think that becomes redundant.

thats why i have now fitted it to another bike and keep it for winter mud duties

 

but for summer its no fun. plus the weights too concentrated for an MTB

 

as i said at the start on a utility E bike its a great idea . my only issue is - security .

 

Ebike + cargo bike + rohloff = about 5 grands worth of machine sitting there ready to be stolen by some wee ned bam. even with the best will and locks in the world it wont take them long once they realise its worth money.

thats why i have now fitted it to another bike and keep it for winter mud duties

 

but for summer its no fun. plus the weights too concentrated for an MTB

 

as i said at the start on a utility E bike its a great idea . my only issue is - security .

 

Ebike + cargo bike + rohloff = about 5 grands worth of machine sitting there ready to be stolen by some wee ned bam. even with the best will and locks in the world it wont take them long once they realise its worth money.

 

Very good points and a sad reality. Reading up on e bikes it seems tracking/theft alert features are on tbeir way, a nice move in the right direction. An anti theft electic shock feature would be nice too!

Derailleurs over the same time period would have required constant cleaning, lubrication, adjustment and replacement.

That's total rubbish. I've not even looked at mine in 4000 miles and two years. I've squirted some 3-in-one on the chain a few times. That's it.

 

In 6 years of electric biking and about 12000 miles, I can't think of a single time I made any adjustment or maintenance to a rear derailleur other than initial setting. I think I cleaned it once when somebody persuaded me to try dry lube (White Lightening) on the chain, which ended up as gobs of wax all over the jocky wheels. Maybe it would be different for someone riding in sand or with a powerful crank motor.

 

Also, you seem to be conveniently forgetting that you're supposed to change the oil in your hub every 12 months or 5000km. whichever comes first.

 

It's people like you posting false information that causes all the confusion. You need to be honest and factual so that people can use the information to make the correct judgement about what's suitable for them.

That's total rubbish. I've not even looked at mine in 4000 miles and two years. I've squirted some 3-in-one on the chain a few times. That's it.

 

In 6 years of electric biking and about 12000 miles, I can't think of a single time I made any adjustment or maintenance to a rear derailleur other than initial setting. I think I cleaned it once when somebody persuaded me to try dry lube (White Lightening) on the chain, which ended up as gobs of wax all over the jocky wheels. Maybe it would be different for someone riding in sand or with a powerful crank motor.

 

Also, you seem to be conveniently forgetting that you're supposed to change the oil in your hub every 12 months or 5000km. whichever comes first.

 

It's people like you posting false information that causes all the confusion. You need to be honest and factual so that people can use the information to make the correct judgement about what's suitable for them.

 

Blimey. No need for that aggressive tone. Yes I did forget the oil change but it is, as you said, roughly an annual event. In fact I've only ever done that once and it still works perfectly! Other than that I have been factual, no maintenance or adjustment whatsoever over a peroid of 3 years solid 80% off road use. I've ridden very little in the intervening 3-4 years but each time I've dragged the bike out from the cobwebs its continued to function ( drivetraon wise) with no attention required. I'm happy you've had such good service from your setup. If you read threads on here, on other forums, speak to other people and see their experiences first hand there are thousands of examples of all the problems I mentioned with derailleurs. Shifting problems, chain suck, mechs and chains breaking due to mud build up, the list goes on. Surely you're not denying these things occur? You only need to attend a single mountain bike event (enduro/marathon/xc race etc) to see all these things happening in front of you. I get it, you're a big derailleur fan, that's fine but how dare you accuse me of supplying false information!

Yes, but you have to keep things in perspective. That's like saying that internal combustion engines are no good because they have to be completely rebuilt after every F1 race.

 

We're talking about electric bicycles, where most people use them for riding to work, shopping, pub, and rides in the country. How many of them get problems with derailleur gears? Even considering that the retailers often don't set them properly, it's very rare to see posts about them on this forum, so I think you're wrong on that matter. We had one recently, which turned out to be his chain that was broken, which was nothing to do with the gears. On other forums, it would be natural to see more posts about derailleur gears than hub gears because the sporting guys don't use anything else, and there's a reason for that, which you should be able to figure out.

If I was living and working in a city with lots of stop/start riding I can see the advantage of being able to change down when stopped. And not getting the rear mech tangled up when parked in a stack of other bikes. A folder with a Nexus 8 Inter would probably be my bike/gearbox of choice in that case.

 

Here there are hills and even mountains with mountain passes to be explored with ramps of up to and even beyond 15%. I think the ideal setup in my conditions is a 7 speed cassette 11-34 and 2 chainrings, maybe 48-38. If Mister Shimano would pull his finger out and make a 7 speed for e-bikes with even gear spacing the world would be such a nicer place! 11-15-19-23-27-31-34, there what can be so hard in making one of those?

If Mister Shimano would pull his finger out and make a 7 speed for e-bikes with even gear spacing the world would be such a nicer place! 11-15-19-23-27-31-34, there what can be so hard in making one of those?

 

Whoops! The last step isn't even, should be 35.

.

Found I can build an 11-15-17-20-24-29-34 from Shimano parts. With a motor the close spacing in the top of the range (15-17-20) is a little redundant.

Because efficiency. Thats why.m

 

None of the gearboxes ive used have been anywhere near as efficient at putting power down .

 

I cant say ive had the issues you have had with deraileurs.

 

My rohloff was very expensive i want to love it . Its done about 10000miles but if i was going on tour tomorrow id take deraileur gears in a heart beat.

for me it would depend where I'm touring, if anywhere civilised id take the rohloff, knowing I can replace or have it repaired, if third world id take derailleurs. where a rohloff scores for me is commuting, its so reliable and trouble free, I've done about 25000km on one of mine, and its been like clockwork just a matter of an oil change and flipping the sprocket every 8000km or so.

Yes, but you have to keep things in perspective. That's like saying that internal combustion engines are no good because they have to be completely rebuilt after every F1 race.

 

We're talking about electric bicycles, where most people use them for riding to work, shopping, pub, and rides in the country. How many of them get problems with derailleur gears? Even considering that the retailers often don't set them properly, it's very rare to see posts about them on this forum, so I think you're wrong on that matter. We had one recently, which turned out to be his chain that was broken, which was nothing to do with the gears. On other forums, it would be natural to see more posts about derailleur gears than hub gears because the sporting guys don't use anything else, and there's a reason for that, which you should be able to figure out.

 

That's where this discussion is getting tangled. I'm talking solely about serious (more than gravel tow paths) off road, cross country use only. This thread is in the mountain bike section of the forum you might have noticed? I'm not referring to road, hybrid, commuter or expedition bikes. I wouldn't even begin to bat for a rohloff over a derailleur on a road racing bike and they're out of the question on low budget, entry level bikes of any type.

The first photo shows my team mates bike at mountain mayhem, its fitted with a shimano xt drivetrain, set up by a professional cycle mechanic prior to the event. It wasn't changing gear, the wheel barely moved in fact due to the mud around the front mech/chainrings. Once it was cleaned off it still didnt change gear very well! My rohloff equipped hardtail (3rd from left in 2nd photo) was in the same condition and shifting perfectly and that is my point.

for me it would depend where I'm touring, if anywhere civilised id take the rohloff, knowing I can replace or have it repaired, if third world id take derailleurs. where a rohloff scores for me is commuting, its so reliable and trouble free, I've done about 25000km on one of mine, and its been like clockwork just a matter of an oil change and flipping the sprocket every 8000km or so.

 

Careful, you'll be accused of spreading false information!

Yep I agree with the OP, why are they not making Mid Drive Ebikes with embedded gearbox.

 

I got my Rohloff bike back in 2004 and I am on the cusp of ordering a Bafang 8fun 500w Mid Drive to make it into an ebike.

 

The upgrade will cost about £900 all up, for motor kit c/w 15ah 36v battery, so I am still dithering, in case Bosch or someone teams up with Pinion or Rohloff to make an of the shelf ebike that is Mid Drive c/w gearbox.

Yep I agree with the OP, why are they not making Mid Drive Ebikes with embedded gearbox.

 

I got my Rohloff bike back in 2004 and I am on the cusp of ordering a Bafang 8fun 500w Mid Drive to make it into an ebike.

 

The upgrade will cost about £900 all up, for motor kit c/w 15ah 36v battery, so I am still dithering, in case Bosch or someone teams up with Pinion or Rohloff to make an of the shelf ebike that is Mid Drive c/w gearbox.

 

I know what you mean!

 

http://www.bike-eu.com/home/nieuws/2015/9/multi-geared-mid-motors-making-their-market-entry-10124716

 

I've yet to try an e mtb but it seems the trend is to beef up the wheels, tyres and brakes to cope with the extra weight and speed. So you have to consider whether its worth upgrading your bike or buying another.

It can't be long coming, giant and nicolai both offered g- boxx equipped bikes before.

Yep I agree with the OP, why are they not making Mid Drive Ebikes with embedded gearbox.

 

I got my Rohloff bike back in 2004 and I am on the cusp of ordering a Bafang 8fun 500w Mid Drive to make it into an ebike.

 

The upgrade will cost about £900 all up, for motor kit c/w 15ah 36v battery, so I am still dithering, in case Bosch or someone teams up with Pinion or Rohloff to make an of the shelf ebike that is Mid Drive c/w gearbox.

Bafang looks interesting.. What sort of bike is yours? I spotted a new conversion kit earlier where tbe motor sits inside the frame triangle instead of out front like the bafang. I'll see if I can find it again..

Got the Frame and Forks from X'CND aka Tilon in X'ian China, they built my a Rohloff Frame with Rohloff OEM Sliding Drop Outs, and another with a Bushnell EBB, of the two I preferred the Sliding Drop Out design.

 

The bike is more MTB Hybrid style, running 1.3" Tyre's, so great for on road and tarmac trails, being Hard Tail and Rigid forks, it's not for the rough of road stuff, but suits my needs perfectly.

Ok, First question; anyone used a Rohloff hub on an e-mtb instead of defailleurs? I'm thinking it would be much more suitable.

 

Thirdly; I've read that front derailleurs don't work that well with the added power of the motor and they're developing emtb specific versions. Why aren't they just going the whole mile and fitting the bikes with gearboxes instead?! The g boxx system been around for years on DH bikes. Weight much less of an issue with a motor!

Regarding derailleurs, years of muddy mountain biking has shown that as soon as it gets dirty a derailleur set up starts to fail. Shifting goes out or stops altogether. Chains snap.

 

I don't get it. You start off asking questions about which would be more suitable, and by the end of the thread, you're a proclaimed expert. You don't sell Rohlhoffs by any chance, do you? Could you explain please. I'm intrigued.

Got the Frame and Forks from X'CND aka Tilon in X'ian China, they built my a Rohloff Frame with Rohloff OEM Sliding Drop Outs, and another with a Bushnell EBB, of the two I preferred the Sliding Drop Out design.

 

The bike is more MTB Hybrid style, running 1.3" Tyre's, so great for on road and tarmac trails, being Hard Tail and Rigid forks, it's not for the rough of road stuff, but suits my needs perfectly.

I had ebb on my hardtail, not a fan, think you went the right way with sliding dropouts.

I'd like to try the pinion 9 speed XR on a hub motor bike. A gear box thought out for e-bikes and their need for wider jumps between gears.

 

Funny that you should say that, this just happens to be my favourite looking ebike. So simplistic looking and clean. A Rohloff bike would look just as lovely.

 

I don't get it. You start off asking questions about which would be more suitable, and by the end of the thread, you're a proclaimed expert. You don't sell Rohlhoffs by any chance, do you? Could you explain please. I'm intrigued.

I never asked which were

I don't get it. You start off asking questions about which would be more suitable, and by the end of the thread, you're a proclaimed expert. You don't sell Rohlhoffs by any chance, do you? Could you explain please. I'm intrigued.

 

I don't proclaim to be an expert but I know what I know and what I've seen and experienced in 20 odd years mountain biking. I stumbled across rohloff by accident when I demo rode a dialled bike ( to evaluate frame!) which had one fitted. I loved it, bought the hub but not that frame! Having used derailleurs I found it superior, based on my own experiences.

I wasn't asking which were more suitable but was it possible to fit one. You have to take pressure off the pedals to change gear with a rohloff and I didnt know if the motor assistance would have too big a delay.

And no I dont sell rohloffs, I work in the building trade!