Thanks so much for your reply, really appreciated from someone in a similar position.

Firstly and most important don`t buy a T5 unless your heart is really set on it. They are know for mechanical issues, and very costly to repair. A T4 is much better, the last of the good VW campers. I found a 2002 one with all the works on it with only 42k on clock. They are around. Its slow 2.4d. engine but bullet proof. will last my lifetime. I could go on , and on having years of vw camper experience, but that's another story.

Thanks for info about folders, the secret is in my opinion a lovely design and interesting to hear your comments on it. The Gale though is not as good looking does come with bigger tooth ring, fatter tyres etc so seems to fit the bill unless anyone else persuades me otherwise, and at roughlu750.00 with 13ah battery doesn't seem bad. [if you cough it out quickly] 5 years time as more come on the market I imagine demand will bring their prices down and manufacturers will have to reduce their profit margins to a sensible level. supply and demand stuff.

Thanks again for commenting, not sure how you pm on here but if I can help with VW camper thoughts let me know.

Pete.

Peter more or less nailed it when he said information overload.

 

Look how you could easily ascertain the strength and weaknesses of the T5 but we are all struggling to find the value point in an ebike.

 

In your case your dilemma is compounded by the number of options available to you multiplied by the lack of reliable reviews.

 

Im sure we are like minded in buying the right product at the right price so one line of attack im approaching is looking at traditional cycles where clear feedback and forums galore exist.

 

In terms of the electric side of things are concerned, im always one for minimising risk so will be looking along the lines of cost of replacement vs a top notch brand like ktm, cube and others.

 

BTW did you look at the VOLT cycles?

 

sent via huawei P9

I agree Andy, minimise risk, of something which in theory sounds good in an electric bike, but just like an electric car [ of which my brother in law has one, and that's got its problems, not least the bloody government changing its policies over fuel costs and subsidies].

Volt? yes but ruled them our, can`t remember why though.

Onward and upward, one day the right one hopefully will be there and I shall make the move .[almost there].

secret does not have bigger battery and motor sadly otherwise decision may have been made for me.

Pete.

I agree Andy, minimise risk, of something which in theory sounds good in an electric bike, but just like an electric car [ of which my brother in law has one, and that's got its problems, not least the bloody government changing its policies over fuel costs and subsidies].

Volt? yes but ruled them our, can`t remember why though.

Onward and upward, one day the right one hopefully will be there and I shall make the move .[almost there].

secret does not have bigger battery and motor sadly otherwise decision may have been made for me.

Pete.

Pete, I've just looked at freego they have a 5 day repair or replace policy in the first 12 months, 100% feedback on fb with a good dealer network, do you know anything about them?

 

sent via huawei P9

I agree Andy, minimise risk, of something which in theory sounds good in an electric bike, but just like an electric car [ of which my brother in law has one, and that's got its problems, not least the bloody government changing its policies over fuel costs and subsidies].

Volt? yes but ruled them our, can`t remember why though.

Onward and upward, one day the right one hopefully will be there and I shall make the move .[almost there].

secret does not have bigger battery and motor sadly otherwise decision may have been made for me.

Pete.

They have promotion £100 off throughout November

 

http://freegoelectricbikes.com/electric-bikes/freego-folder/

 

sent via huawei P9

cheers, Andy, have looked once at them, will do again soon. Going to be away tomorrow for week. Working now until 10.00 tonight so I may go quiet for a while. Thanks for support and help.

I've also looked at the Freego Folder and am still trying to understand what you get extra for paying 200 and odd quid more than you would for the Gale

I've also looked at the Freego Folder and am still trying to understand what you get extra for paying 200 and odd quid more than you would for the Gale

The main problem is that many manufacturers lack clarity in the components if each bike.

 

Shimano Gears but which model and number?

 

Shimano front sets run from £1 to £100s of pounds, frame composition, EU compliance certification, tyres, brakes, etc can have huge variables within a brand and so on and so on.

 

When emailing dealers and manufacturers some are forthcoming some are not, some don't even bother to reply.

 

Not easy working it all out and even more difficult to view all brands and models in one town especially in more remote areas.

 

sent via huawei P9

you are correct. In fact, the derailleur and shifter are usually less critical than the crankset, because you don't need to change gears much on a bike like the Gale with hub motor, you can leave the shifter on gear 6 or 7 on any terrain, the motor is powerful enough to climb any thing. The quality of the crankset is more important, forged alloy cranksets have much better rigidity than cheaper cranksets with stamped chainring. The Gale has the Prowheel 50T chainring, I think the same is fitted to the Wisper 806 judging by the picture. The deralleur is Shimano Tourney SIS and the freewheel is Shimano 7-speed MF-TZ21. The Gale is Woosh's cheapest bike, with modest pretention.

The more expensive Woosh bikes like the Karoo, Big Bear, Zephyr etc are fitted with better drive train components. The Zephyr-B mentioned in this thread for example have Pioneer 244A 44T forged crankset, Shimano 8-speed Acera derailleur and shifter. The Big Bear has Ounce 239A also forged alloy, Acera mech. The Karoo has the best crankset, Ounce 245A with external ball bearings and GXP bottom bracket, the kind of components you'd find on £1,000 push bikes.

The chain in the Gale is KMC Z series, the chain in the more expensive bikes are all KMC X8 - a very good quality chain.

I do try to use reasonable quality components on all Woosh bikes.

Edited November 17, 20169 yr by trex

you are correct. In fact, the derailleur and shifter are usually less critical than the crankset, because you don't need to change gears much on a bike like the Gale with hub motor, you can leave the shifter on gear 6 or 7 on any terrain, the motor is powerful enough to climb any thing. The quality of the crankset is more important, forged alloy cranksets have much better rigidity than cheaper cranksets with stamped chainring. The Gale has the Prowheel 50T chainring, I think the same is fitted to the Wisper 806 judging by the picture. The deralleur is Shimano Tourney SIS and the freewheel is Shimano 7-speed MF-TZ21. The Gale is Woosh's cheapest bike, with modest pretention.

The more expensive Woosh bikes like the Karoo, Big Bear, Zephyr etc are fitted with better drive train components. The Zephyr-B mentioned in this thread for example have Pioneer 244A 44T forged crankset, Shimano 8-speed Acera derailleur and shifter. The Big Bear has Ounce 239A also forged alloy, Acera mech. The Karoo has the best crankset, Ounce 245A with external ball bearings and GXP bottom bracket, the kind of components you'd find on £1,000 push bikes.

The chain in the Gale is KMC Z series, the chain in the more expensive bikes are all KMC X8 - a very good quality chain.

I do try to use reasonable quality components on all Woosh bikes.

The other thing I'd like to add is in some cases with unscrupulous Chinese manufacturers because it says HEINZ on the tin it doesn't always mean the BEANS inside are Heinz :-)

 

sent via huawei P9

I thought you may be interested to know what you get if you spend £150 extra on a bike?

May be not much in a shop but you will get a surprising amount from Woosh.

 

let me compare the two Woosh bikes, the £749 Woosh Gale and the £899 Woosh Karoo. The Karoo costs £150 more than the Gale.

Both have the same Bafang motor (not same winding but otherwise costing the same), same capacity 13Ah battery, same Lishui 15A controller, throttle and PAS.

 

The extra money buys:

 

- £50 go on the more expensive drive train components, eg the Ounce 245A costs £35 more than the Prowheel 50T on the Gale.

 

The Karoo has the posh crankset:

 

 

http://ksdamon.com/Content/UploadFiles/Thumbnil/00/00/01/C7.jpg

 

The Gale has the Prowheel 50T with short pedal arms (I think the same is fitted to the Wisper 806):

 

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/2016/gale/gale-prowheel-crankset-wellgo-all-metal-folding-pedals-800.jpg

 

- £25 go on the the more expensive Samsung celled battery on the Karoo

 

- £25 go on the brakes. The Karoo has Avid brakes on both front and rear. The Gale has Tektro brakes.

 

- £25 go on the better Karoo frame, wheelset and graphics

 

The remaining £25 go on marketing fund.

The Gale sells in higher volume, so costs less to sell.

I thought you may be interested to know what you get if you spend £150 extra on a bike?

May be not much in a shop but you will get a surprising amount from Woosh.

 

let me compare the two Woosh bikes, the £749 Woosh Gale and the £899 Woosh Karoo. The Karoo costs £150 more than the Gale.

Both have the same Bafang motor (not same winding but otherwise costing the same), same capacity 13Ah battery, same Lishui 15A controller, throttle and PAS.

 

The extra money buys:

 

- £50 go on the more expensive drive train components, eg the Ounce 245A costs £35 more than the Prowheel 50T on the Gale.

 

The Karoo has the posh crankset:

 

 

http://ksdamon.com/Content/UploadFiles/Thumbnil/00/00/01/C7.jpg

 

The Gale has the Prowheel 50T with short pedal arms:

 

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/2016/gale/gale-prowheel-crankset-wellgo-all-metal-folding-pedals-800.jpg

 

- £25 go on the the more expensive Samsung celled battery on the Karoo

 

- £25 go on the brakes. The Karoo has Avid disc brakes on both front and rear. The Gale has Tektro brakes.

 

- £25 go on the better Karoo frame, wheelset and graphics

 

The remaining £25 go on marketing fund.

The Gale sells in higher volume, so costs less to sell.

Thanks for that

 

sent via huawei P9

[mention=15881]Andy88[/mention] I too looked a the Volt metro . I like that style of bike plus it had some nice features such as disk brakes, front suspension, 8 speed gears, Panasonic battery etc but retailing at £25 shy of £1300! I couldn't justify spending that kind of money. Plus I do prefer the battery in the frame. It makes for cleaner lines.

 

[mention=4665]trex[/mention] I understand that quality components will have a significant increase in end price and that should make for a longer lasting more reliable bike but maybe the base price is too high to start with?

 

[mention=11721]poptop[/mention] PM sent re: T4 / T5

 

Peter

 

[mention=4665]trex[/mention] I understand that quality components will have a significant increase in end price and that should make for a longer lasting more reliable bike but maybe the base price is too high to start with?

 

[mention=11721]poptop[/mention] PM sent re: T4 / T5

 

Peter

 

The Gale costs only £749, Peter.

 

You get a robust bike, a Bafang motor, a Lishui 15A controller and a 13Ah battery.

The bike may be basic but still offers the comfort of a Suntour suspension fork, the painting is triple layer, metallic paint that will look good for years, the electronics is made up of premium components.

Where can you find a better deal?

The shop would charge you £400 for a 13AH battery alone.

well today on the way to work, Llandudno ski slope I passed a bike shop which has gone into electric bikes. I thought I was in heaven. Wondered where I had had the smash

Well I was able to see the wisper806 [ what a beautiful looking bike] and the Freego, both small and bigger battery versions.

Interestingly the Wisper looked a smaller bike , better made and the seats were much the same height. but handlebars on Freego were higher. The freego is not bad looking and with bigger battery is appealing. But its still as mentioned several hundred pounds more. The Wisper even more.I don't have the technical knowledge to know if its worth it, compared with the Gale.

The dealer did say that they wouldn't touch the Torque versions as too many problems, also he commented out of all the compamies he has dealt with Freego are excellent, always there to support and sort problems. Wisper were second, but A2B and Kudos not so good. In his opinion.

 

As for T4 mine [longwheel base] has air conditioning [ as you say a must] hot and cold water, Heating, full shower, wash room and toilet. Took some finding but they are about. And only 46k on clock. 2,4d will do 80 on motorway , but is slower than my 1.9td accelerating. You have to use gears more with 2.4d. The van is a lot heavier so I get about 32 around town 38-40 on a run. My 1.9td was always around 44 mpg.

cheers

Pete

Pete.

I know Trex, its looking more and more favourable ......

 

[mention=4665]trex[/mention] I understand that quality components will have a significant increase in end price and that should make for a longer lasting more reliable bike but maybe the base price is too high to start with?

 

 

Peter

 

But woosh is about as cheap as you can get premade. With renowned after sale service. Hatti has to make a profit, or she cannot continue to spec,import sell and support her bikes.

I thought that the profit margins were quite low given the cost and risk they are carrying.

..

The dealer did say that they wouldn't touch the Torque versions as too many problems

.

Pete, that's an interesting comment. The bottom bracket torque sensor is an expensive piece of kit, he is obviously not keen to push it.

Next time you pop in to his shop, could you ask him to expand his reason a bit more?

question is what do I get for £150.00 on the Freego over the Gale? £899.00 against £749.00

help from Techies required please. [ half a new battery? ].

going to be over a week before I'm back that way but will do with pleasure. Thanks for your help getting my head around it all.

I will be having a test drive in their car park, as long as it doesn't rain...lol

question is what do I get for £150.00 on the Freego over the Gale? £899.00 against £749.00

help from Techies required please. [ half a new battery? ].

 

poptop, the two folders are pretty similar in specs, except for the battery and the stem. The Freego has nicer stem, the Gale has bigger battery. The frame is practically the same.

The difference in price pays the shop to look after you.

cheers Trex, sort of sums up my thoughts also, oh and a front disc brake [ not sure of spec of that]

It was a plush looking shop at that. But they didn't offer me a cuppa, where has the service gone today....lol

The wisper with 10ah batter was £1099.00, does a bit more beauty warrant that much more money, now on the other hand the 2.5k folder from Bosch was really worth considering [if you got the money] . Made me drool big time.

 

Made me drool big time.

 

 

I know the feeling.

Hi Pete,

 

I think you'll find the FreeGo has a two year warranty. It's a good solid bike. I'm sure if you call them they would be able to assist you in explaining all the differences.

 

Thanks for your comment re the Wisper we have worked hard to make it look and ride that little bit better than most!

 

The stem has a height adjustment so you can raise the handlebars quite high, and the reason it looks smaller is because it is. The FreeGo set up is a little more old fashioned than the Wisper, the battery is behind the seat post. This used to be necessary before the latest high density cells were available. These days there is no need to put the battery there. Putting the battery on the rack or down tube enables manufacturers to shorten the wheel base, this gives a more nimble ride and of course makes stowage of the bike easier in small spaces.

 

Thanks for the heads up re the Torque bikes, Llandudno did have a problem with one of the very early models. We don't have any torque sensor problems now so I'll give them a call. The 806Torque is a superb folder, we sell a lot of them, but they do start at £1,599.

 

All the best, David

Edited November 18, 20169 yr by Wisper Bikes

I think you'll find the FreeGo has a two year warranty. It's a good solid bike.

 

Thanks for the comment re the Wisper we have worked hard to make it look and ride that little bit better than most!

 

All the best, David

Good to see David singing the praises of a competitor, Wisper bikes in my opinion are very well thought out and David is passionate about his products. Outside of the obvious a lot comes down to aesthetics and personal choice.

 

A further note on freego is that they offer a 5 day fix or replace policy which they claim is unique? Anyone any experience or other manufacturers offering the same?

 

http://freegoelectricbikes.com/warranty/unique-five-day-promise/

 

sent via huawei P9

Good to see David singing the praises of a competitor, Wisper bikes in my opinion are very well thought out and David is passionate about his products. Outside of the obvious a lot comes down to aesthetics and personal choice.

 

A further note on freego is that they offer a 5 day fix or replace policy which they claim is unique? Anyone any experience or other manufacturers offering the same?

 

http://freegoelectricbikes.com/warranty/unique-five-day-promise/

 

sent via huawei P9

 

Thanks Andy!

 

We offer a similar deal. If we can't fix in five days we offer a loan bike until the repair is made including delivery and collection. So far though, we have not had to send a loan bike out.

 

All the best, David