December 2, 20169 yr yep give it time, I am sure one of the big boys will be adding the Bafang Max Drive to there range, the marketing folk like nothing better than price points so that they can tap into any demographic. I have said it before, but Ebikes running the Bafang Max Drive, will become the Skoda brand of the ebike world.
December 2, 20169 yr Are you a commercial bike converter? No Andy...I'm an ex-forces WO Aeronautical Engineer who went back to Uni in 1990 to get a Masters in Automotive Engineering. I've been building roundy-roundy and Land Speed Racing bikes for nearly 40 years and decided to turn my attention to ebikes after owning a Bosch motored Haibike and realising it was sadly lacking in a few departments, compared with the "normal" bikes we'd already built (I still compete with three Hayabusas: a turbo 250Bhp street-legal sleeper, a full-fat turbo 560Bhp carbon bodied streamliner and a normally aspirated street legal 1551cc big-bore...all home built) There's over 20 "eMTBs" knocking around various parts of the UK that I've put together (not counting our own 7) and I've got orders for another 5 waiting in the wings, all full suspension and all needing top-spec parts...We're moving house just after Xmas to an old farm with an 88 square metre, 2-storey, workshop where I will be starting a business building/renting/repairing ebikes, normal MTBs and motorbikes (I'm not retiring, just winding down lol)...So, if you ask that question in 2017 I guess the answer will be yes
December 2, 20169 yr 560Bhp carbon bodied streamliner. how fast does it go 60 more than bub 60 less than Mr.311:cool: (RIP Bill:()
December 2, 20169 yr man thats a trike lol what you want is two one each side and a fat ass back wheel or chop the wings off one off them and put 2 wheels on it now thats an idea http://pop.h-cdn.co/assets/cm/15/05/54cabe5c63e44_-_jump_jet_flip_04_0211-xl.jpg Edited December 2, 20169 yr by soundwave
December 5, 20169 yr That's Pete Williams, one of our racing buddies...he hand beat all the aluminium panels for his two-faced Hayabusa and has been building the jet-bike in his shed for a few years now:cool:
December 9, 20169 yr Out dated wheel size, cable operated brakes, zero component spec or brand of components used, no bike weight, all of which set alarm bells ringing and automatically make the bike overpriced by £500.00 and that perhaps is being kind. For just £50.00 more, you can a get a branded eMTB, with 5 year warranty on the frame, 2 year warranty on all other parts, branded components throughout including wheels and tyres, 27.5 wheel size, full factory support, and nationwide dealerships. Send a bike down to me to review, and I'd happily take it over some of my regular proven and recorded riding routes for comparison purposes. It would then not only test the bikes claimed use of "hitting the trails hard" but would also test the bikes claimed range. I tend to think that it would cope with neither terrain or range. The first route would be ideal for testing the bikes range. Ridden just last weekend, it is a non taxing 34.7 miles of undulating grass and woodland, with a mere 3,773ft of elevation gain. Ridden using a Bosch powered bike with one battery. It would prove an ideal comparison as the Ibex should take the ride in it's stride with it's claimed 35-50 mile range capability, and it's ability to "iron out the hills, and fly down the hills". Given the lack of response, I guess that the bike clearly doesn't stand up to the wild claims that are made in the sales spiel. Somehow I am not at all surprised, which is a shame as it would have proved an interesting review to have carried out. . Edited December 9, 20169 yr by EddiePJ
December 10, 20169 yr Out dated wheel size, cable operated brakes, zero component spec or brand of components used, no bike weight, all of which set alarm bells ringing and automatically make the bike overpriced by £500.00 and that perhaps is being kind. For just £50.00 more, you can a get a branded eMTB, with 5 year warranty on the frame, 2 year warranty on all other parts, branded components throughout including wheels and tyres, 27.5 wheel size, full factory support, and nationwide dealerships. Send a bike down to me to review, and I'd happily take it over some of my regular proven and recorded riding routes for comparison purposes. It would then not only test the bikes claimed use of "hitting the trails hard" but would also test the bikes claimed range. I tend to think that it would cope with neither terrain or range. The first route would be ideal for testing the bikes range. Ridden just last weekend, it is a non taxing 34.7 miles of undulating grass and woodland, with a mere 3,773ft of elevation gain. Ridden using a Bosch powered bike with one battery. It would prove an ideal comparison as the Ibex should take the ride in it's stride with it's claimed 35-50 mile range capability, and it's ability to "iron out the hills, and fly down the hills". My goodness, Bosch must have come a long way since they were humiliated by the Bafang MaxDrive at Nuremberg?? http://www.ebikereviews.com.au/news/team-bafang-wins-the-24-hour-e-bike-race-at-the-nurburgring/ apparently the event was organised by Bosch,
December 12, 20169 yr Author I wasn't going to bite, however since you asked so damn nicely! Out dated wheel size, cable operated brakes, zero component spec or brand of components used, no bike weight, all of which set alarm bells ringing and automatically make the bike overpriced by £500.00 and that perhaps is being kind. 26" is one of the most common wheel sizes across the planet. It's been around the longest and provides a stronger wheel, than 27.5", 29". Perfect for an ebike application, where the added weight of the motor, battery, and normally less skilled riders demands a stronger wheel. The bike features Shimano M315 hydraulic brakes, the sample we're selling off does have cable operated brakes, but this was changed when the test model was, well, tested and the brakes were found not to be good enough, it also uses Shimano Alivio 9 speed gears, Alivio front and rear hubs. The bike hasn't been weighed yet. The sample weighs in at 22kg, I fully expect the production model to be atleast half a kilogram lighter, if not more due to the better components used. For just £50.00 more, you can a get a branded eMTB, with 5 year warranty on the frame, 2 year warranty on all other parts, branded components throughout including wheels and tyres, 27.5 wheel size, full factory support, and nationwide dealerships. For £50 more you can get a bike with a Bosch motor, however, you also buy a motor that has substantial flaws, constant reported issues on this forum and others. A motor which more often than not has to be sent to Germany by the end user to be repaired. Our bike has branded components throughout. 26" wheel size (see above) full manufacturer support from us, we're based in Havant near Portsmouth, have 3 members of technical staff, plus more if we need them from other areas of the company, including full trained electrical engineers who have over 50 years industry experience on call at a moments notice if we need them. We have every single part for nearly every bike we've ever sold. Which reminds me, I need to order some brake arms for the first ever folding bike we ever sold. We have a maximum 1 week wait if we run out of spares and full dealer backup nearly everywhere in the country, as well as Spain, Morroco, Denmark...our dealer list keeps on growing. Send a bike down to me to review, and I'd happily take it over some of my regular proven and recorded riding routes for comparison purposes. It would then not only test the bikes claimed use of "hitting the trails hard" but would also test the bikes claimed range. I tend to think that it would cope with neither terrain or range. No. Why? Because our bike has been tested. Thoroughly. I'm an ex bmx/4x racer (we're talking a good 10 years ago however!) I've broken all manner of frames and components. Snapped forks at the crown, literally rode bikes to death. I've hammered the Ibex off road at Queen Elizabeth, Stoughton DH, and also Peaslake. Crashed it, jumped it, wheelied it. It hasn't needed anything other than a chain, brake pads and a wheel true in over 1000 miles. The mileage is the maximum attainable mileage. I've achieved 36 miles on the lowest level of assistance, however at 17st, I am not the lightest! One of my colleagues achieved 50 miles, on road in and around Portsmouth, Havant...it's pretty flat, he weighs 9 stones. The other reason, is because you've taken an instant dislike to the bike. You don't like it because it's not Bosch driven, so it wouldn't be a fair test! Here's me, riding the national 4x at UKBP, back in the day. They say it's like riding a bike...You never forget.
December 12, 20169 yr Relevant industry experience is useful but can be learnt, customer service skills you are either born with or without.
December 12, 20169 yr The other reason, is because you've taken an instant dislike to the bike. You don't like it because it's not Bosch driven, so it wouldn't be a fair test! You are right in that I don't like the bike, I see it as being the best part of £700.00 over priced. As for not liking it because it isn't using a Bosch motor unit and that it wouldn't be a fair test, is utter rubbish and you know it. You even make comparison to the Bosch motor unit within your marketing statement. The Woosh Karoo didn't have a Bosch motor unit, the Pro connect didn't have a Bosch motor unit, the KTM eRaceP didn't have a Bosch motor unit, and I didn't own a KTM at that stage, and was still riding my Haibike that had a Bosch motor unit. I don't seem to recall any of those reviews not being a fair test. You make comparisons, yet are not willing to allow your marketing statement of the bike range or use to be questioned. That tells me more than I need to know about the product. Out of interest, what are your product return policies in the event of the Ibex not meeting range claims, being unsuitable for intended use or fit for purpose? Edited December 12, 20169 yr by EddiePJ
December 12, 20169 yr Author You are right in that I don't like the bike, I see it as being the best part of £700.00 over priced. It was £500 overpriced earlier? As for not liking it because it isn't using a Bosch motor unit and that it wouldn't be a fair test, is utter rubbish and you know it. You even make comparison to the Bosch motor unit within your marketing statement. Yes, a factual comparison. 5Nm More torque. Woosh don't use the Bosch motor unit, yet they had no issue sending out a bike to review, the BH didn't have a Bosch motor unit, and neither did the Panasonic hub driven eRace P or eStreetP. I didn't even own a KTM at that stage, yet KTM were willing to forward a bike to review Why are all these companies willing to send you bikes to review? You make comparisons, yet are not willing to allow your marketing statements to be questioned. That tells me more than I need to know about the product. More than willing, and have answered every question you've asked as far as I can see. Out of interest, what are your product return policies when it comes down to the Ibex being unsuitable for it's intended use or fit for purpose? The bikes intended purpose is XC. For which it is more than capable. Byocycles don't sell new bikes direct, and probably never will.
December 14, 20169 yr Just taken delivery of the Tornado and first impressions are really good. Seems a solid built little machine and has quite a bit of torque. Great headlight on it too. Only negative so far is the charge point and lock for the battery are in a right PITA location and they don't have a cover so i'm a bit worried water will get in over time.
December 14, 20169 yr i think he means this one with the new bafang mid drive motor. http://byocycles.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/IbexCD-1.jpg if you take away the motor and batt that bike just cost you £1000 https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/new-popular-bafang-max-mid-drive_60328582258.html?s=p hole bike https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Bisek-high-end-city-ebike-700cc_60569391140.html
December 14, 20169 yr Nope, if you go the start of the thread there is a picture. Its the folder with the battery hidden in the frame.
December 14, 20169 yr Right so by adding the motor and battery the sales tag of £1699 not so far over the top if its the same bike in the earlier spec sheet thread. However as eddiePJ pointed out once you reach this price point for another £50 or £100 you can buy a machine with better brand recognition with a more solid warranty. When searching for independent reviews, which would be automatic if you were buying a new car or motorcycle you would be presented with numerous reliable sources but within the ebike industry particularly in the uk it is sadly lacking with some mainstream manufacturers, both ebike and other. I remember a comment from one prominent supplier who quoted that the ebike industry is a minefield and they are right but the way I see it, it is not just limited to ebikes but also within the traditional bicycle industry itself. No doubt the industry will level itself and 2017 will be an interesting year, as brexit takes its toll and exchange rates fluctuate it will be a survival of the fittest. With the likes of Volt, Momentum, Gtech etc. entering the arena pushing direct and other sales strategies in an effort to produce a more lean machine in the term of cost to the end user my concern with these companies would be true level of after sales, spare parts and customer service.
December 14, 20169 yr Nope, if you go the start of the thread there is a picture. Its the folder with the battery hidden in the frame. The post has become a tad confusing with multiple models being mentioned.
December 14, 20169 yr if you buy all the parts from china and make it ur self it will be alot cheaper but have no warranty so to speak but i have never had a problem with a seller from china if it all goes tits up. so what you are paying for is the warranty and support ie new parts if they fail as none will even try to fix a motor and even bosch dealers can not open the motor case as it voids the warranty. as for the batts none seem to state what cells they are other than voltage and amp hrs of the pack but unless you know what the cells are rated at and tested any range given is from here to the moon.
December 14, 20169 yr if you buy all the parts from china and make it ur self it will be alot cheaper but have no warranty so to speak but i have never had a problem with a seller from china if it all goes tits up. so what you are paying for is the warranty and support ie new parts if they fail as none will even try to fix a motor and even bosch dealers can not open the motor case as it voids the warranty. as for the batts none seem to state what cells they are other than voltage and amp hrs of the pack but unless you know what the cells are rated at and tested any range given is from here to the moon. I validate and appreciate what you are saying here but the average consumer with little or zero technical knowledge will always within reason sacrifice cost over peace of mind in terms of service. The industry is very diverse from the multi-talented electro/mechanical tinkerholic engineer, to the retiree that struggles to change a light bulb.
December 15, 20169 yr as for the batts none seem to state what cells they are other than voltage and amp hrs of the pack but unless you know what the cells are rated at and tested any range given is from here to the moon. In this case the whole spec is all but non existent. frame - Aluminium frame sizes available - Nil spec Available colours - Nil spec front fork - Nil spec Headset - Nil spec Stem - Nil spec Handlebar - Nil spec Grips - Nil spec Shifter - Nil spec Rear derailleur - Nil spec Cassette - Shimano Alvio 9 speed Cassette ratios - Nil spec Final drive chain - Nil spec Crankset - Nil spec Front chainset - Nil spec Front chainset ratio - Nil spec Crank arms - Nil spec Pedals - Nil spec Wheel hubs - Shimano Alvio Hub axle type - Nil spec Wheel rims - Nil spec Wheel size - 26" Tyres - Nil spec Saddle - Nil spec Seat post - Nil spec Seat clamp - Nil spec Brakes - Disc front and rear Shimano M315 Disc size front - Nil spec Disc size rear - Nil spec It certainly makes for disappointing reading on a bike that is being marketed at and I quote "Just £1,699.95!" It makes comparing on a like for like basis impossible, which I guess is the idea. SW, as for your comment in relation to range. I certainly don't believe the quoted minimum range of this bike, but at least that is a legal get out for anyone that doesn't reach that distance. . Edited December 15, 20169 yr by EddiePJ
December 16, 20169 yr Author if you buy all the parts from china and make it ur self it will be alot cheaper but have no warranty so to speak but i have never had a problem with a seller from china if it all goes tits up. so what you are paying for is the warranty and support ie new parts if they fail as none will even try to fix a motor and even bosch dealers can not open the motor case as it voids the warranty. as for the batts none seem to state what cells they are other than voltage and amp hrs of the pack but unless you know what the cells are rated at and tested any range given is from here to the moon. Thats the point of buying from a manufacturer based in the UK, yes you can buy a bike with a Bafang mid drive motor from alibaba for around $1000. On top of that you have: Shipping which is around $300 minimum, hazardous good shipping is a minefield too! 6% import duty And then you have the abysmal exchange rate which currently stands at around 1.2. On top of a 1-3 month wait, because China have nothing in stock. bringing your $1000 bike to around £1150 at your door. That's if you actually get what you wanted. Story time! The manager before me at Byocycles ordered a sample of 10 electric mid drive bikes, costing £500 each, cheap, a bit too cheap. This is what turned up: £50 bikes at best, retail. Completely unsafe, no certifications, (CE etc), the factory disappeared shortly after. Wheres the backup? I wouldn't even give them away for fear of killing someone. We run our own facility in Shenzhen, quality control is our own, the designs are our own. A quick note on certifications, you have to have the bike, battery, charger, kettle lead, and each individual component tested to bring something to market. This costs $5000+, you change the pedals? Needs to be tested again. We always try and fix before replacing, sometimes things can't be fixed and it's more economical to replace, quite often we'll just send a new part if its inexpensive, and then keep the other and repair it or send it back. We use Samsung ICR18650 cells in all of our batteries, and we open 10 out of every consignment to test. In this case the whole spec is all but non existent. *snip* It certainly makes for disappointing reading on a bike that is being marketed at and I quote "Just £1,699.95!" It makes comparing on a like for like basis impossible, which I guess is the idea. SW, as for your comment in relation to range. I certainly don't believe the quoted minimum range of this bike, but at least that is a legal get out for anyone that doesn't reach that distance. . There is no ulterior motive for not listing the full specification. In our new website which is currently being developed a full specification is available, we've stopped developing the current website as it's not what we want. Edited December 16, 20169 yr by Zack @ Byocycles
December 16, 20169 yr Hi EddiePJ, I have been following this thread closely and agree with you wholeheartedly however byocycles is not the only culprit. To simply make excuses that the website is not ready, (I had a similar experience with zak on two tiered pricing) Its simply unacceptable and indicates a company that simply does not have the resources or customer centric mindset to operate at a professional standard.
December 16, 20169 yr Author Hi EddiePJ, I have been following this thread closely and agree with you wholeheartedly however byocycles is not the only culprit. To simply make excuses that the website is not ready, (I had a similar experience with zak on two tiered pricing) Its simply unacceptable and indicates a company that simply does not have the resources or customer centric mindset to operate at a professional standard. Two tiered pricing?
December 16, 20169 yr Short memory. Bike on site £1,599 u quoted £1,699 You said it was trivial however i don't think customers would. Your website is your national and global brochure, get it right b4 you go to market not as an afterthought.
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