Ok so i went and demo’d a legal ebike today from a local shop. My first time on an ebike, it really was not the best bike to compare to my carbon SS but did give me a feel for how controls work and what it can do. It was a hard tail Cube mtb mid motor with full knobbly tyres.

 

I rode my current commute 7.5mile commute in both directions. I only cut about 10% off the journey time but doing both there snd back so 15miles in total felt about as tiring as normally doing one leg. Obviously the hills were where i mostly noticed the help, it was certainly an experience going up at 15mph with hardly any effort. Downhill has fine, bowling along and as you can imagine the flats were terrible, hitting the 15mph limit after a few pedal strokes then hitting the wall that was a heavy knobbly mtb on the road....it was harder to ride on the flat than up the hills.

 

So a few questions to translate this into how i might set up an ebike for my needs.

 

The motor seemed to cut off dead at 15mph no feathering out, i assume this a software set limit for the legalities. What happens with a diy q100c or q128c when it reaches its max speed, does it cut out or feather out.

 

I really did not need as much help as i was given on hills, it was fun in turbo mode but not necessary, if i ran a less powerful motor like q100c would that be like going up hill in eco mode on a q128c

 

This thing was mid motor, i am not sure i either liked or disliked the ‘feel’ of the power. Will a hub motor feel different

 

I keep jumping back and forth between q100c and q128c in my mind (i may well buy both as the cost of the motor is relatively small), the weight and physical size saving of the q100c is a big draw. I understand that both 36v 201rpm versions can be overvolted to 48v which would see an improvement in top speed, can they reach the same top speed? 20-25mph? i didnt follow the 260rpm bit is that on q128c only?

 

I used around a quarter of the 400? battery on this demo bike, i did lots of the hills on turbo mode for fun but i guess most of the flat bits i was doing 18-20mph on so would not have been using power. With a motor capable of 20-25mph i guess i would have been using more juice on the flats, but then i didnt need to use as much on the hills as i did just for fun. Batterywise i was looking at the 10 or 11.6 amphr one on BMS battery, does that sound feasible for max 40miles (most likey 35miles)

 

The 48v dolphin battery can come with 20a controller inside, is this a good idea (certainly neater), is it the same as the kt ones often recommended

 

Anyway, an interesting day

Ok so i went and demo’d a legal ebike today from a local shop. My first time on an ebike, it really was not the best bike to compare to my carbon SS but did give me a feel for how controls work and what it can do. It was a hard tail Cube mtb mid motor with full knobbly tyres.

 

I rode my current commute 7.5mile commute in both directions. I only cut about 10% off the journey time but doing both there snd back so 15miles in total felt about as tiring as normally doing one leg. Obviously the hills were where i mostly noticed the help, it was certainly an experience going up at 15mph with hardly any effort. Downhill has fine, bowling along and as you can imagine the flats were terrible, hitting the 15mph limit after a few pedal strokes then hitting the wall that was a heavy knobbly mtb on the road....it was harder to ride on the flat than up the hills.

 

So a few questions to translate this into how i might set up an ebike for my needs.

 

The motor seemed to cut off dead at 15mph no feathering out, i assume this a software set limit for the legalities. What happens with a diy q100c or q128c when it reaches its max speed, does it cut out or feather out.

 

I really did not need as much help as i was given on hills, it was fun in turbo mode but not necessary, if i ran a less powerful motor like q100c would that be like going up hill in eco mode on a q128c

 

This thing was mid motor, i am not sure i either liked or disliked the ‘feel’ of the power. Will a hub motor feel different

 

I keep jumping back and forth between q100c and q128c in my mind (i may well buy both as the cost of the motor is relatively small), the weight and physical size saving of the q100c is a big draw. I understand that both 36v 201rpm versions can be overvolted to 48v which would see an improvement in top speed, can they reach the same top speed? 20-25mph? i didnt follow the 260rpm bit is that on q128c only?

 

I used around a quarter of the 400? battery on this demo bike, i did lots of the hills on turbo mode for fun but i guess most of the flat bits i was doing 18-20mph on so would not have been using power. With a motor capable of 20-25mph i guess i would have been using more juice on the flats, but then i didnt need to use as much on the hills as i did just for fun. Batterywise i was looking at the 10 or 11.6 amphr one on BMS battery, does that sound feasible for max 40miles (most likey 35miles)

 

The 48v dolphin battery can come with 20a controller inside, is this a good idea (certainly neater), is it the same as the kt ones often recommended

 

Anyway, an interesting day

 

I think for you the weight gain of the Q100 will be more important than the power gain provided by the Q128.

 

How about:

 

Q100H (or Q100C with spacers)

48V11.6Ah Case-08 Bottle Panasonic Battery Pack with internal 18 Amp controller

 

You get all the bits, you don't need to use the brake levers. With steel dropouts you don't need a torque arm. You probably need to mount some tyres with puncture protection.

 

The battery isn't stealthy but when you park you remove the battery from the cradle and put it in your back pack. The weight distribution is ideal. Reading your description above you should easily get the range required, I used to get 70 km from a 10.4 Ah bottle battery because despite my age I am a reasonably strong cyclist.

 

Passing the cut off smoothly depends on the controller. My KT controller has no apparent cut off, it ramps down nicely and I am often at 32 km/h without noticing.

 

Hub motors and mid drives are "different" I have come to the conclusion that personally I have no preference, they both do the job which is providing assistance.

 

You decide the cut off speed. My favorite is about 32-35 km/h which is fast cyclist speed, 45 km/h is dangerous because most drivers don't expect you to arrive so quickly. You are strong enough to keep the cut off at 25 km/h, the motor will help you where you need it the most: starting off and on hills, hou don't need it on the flat like us old fogies...

I think for you the weight gain of the Q100 will be more important than the power gain provided by the Q128.

 

How about:

 

Q100H (or Q100C with spacers)

48V11.6Ah Case-08 Bottle Panasonic Battery Pack with internal 18 Amp controller

 

You get all the bits, you don't need to use the brake levers. With steel dropouts you don't need a torque arm. You probably need to mount some tyres with puncture protection.

 

The battery isn't stealthy but when you park you remove the battery from the cradle and put it in your back pack. The weight distribution is ideal. Reading your description above you should easily get the range required, I used to get 70 km from a 10.4 Ah bottle battery because despite my age I am a reasonably strong cyclist.

 

Passing the cut off smoothly depends on the controller. My KT controller has no apparent cut off, it ramps down nicely and I am often at 32 km/h without noticing.

 

Hub motors and mid drives are "different" I have come to the conclusion that personally I have no preference, they both do the job which is providing assistance.

 

You decide the cut off speed. My favorite is about 32-35 km/h which is fast cyclist speed, 45 km/h is dangerous because most drivers don't expect you to arrive so quickly. You are strong enough to keep the cut off at 25 km/h, the motor will help you where you need it the most: starting off and on hills, hou don't need it on the flat like us old fogies...

Thankyou. Sounds like a plan. Whats the difference between the bms 08 and 09 cases, obviously the shape, the only other difference seems to be that the inbuilt controller is 18a in the 08 and 20a in the 09....is one better?

With a Q hub & KT lcd you can set the assist cut off to what you like even over 20 mph, as AK has mentioned the cut off isn't abrupt and fades out near the top.

On my town/commute hub bike I set the assist to cut off at about 18.5 mph, though often only use assist level 1 or 2 and usually find I am above this speed. For gradients just up the assist to 3 ,4 or 5 for more amps/torque.

A lot depends on how much of a work out you want and how sweaty or hot you want to arrive at your destination.

Just looking at the different 48v11.6a batteries available at bms, there is with and without controller, 08 and 09 case sizes, 08 seems the more slimline, and in 08 two options a 100-132vac and a 200-264vac. What do i need? It also says on the 08 with built in controller.....Please kindly note that this battery can not match more than 350W motor....is that bad as the q128c (i’m gonna buy both the 128c and the 100c) is bigger

 

Lets get one thing straight: A Q100 at 15 amps will make more or less the same power as a Q128 at 15 amps.

 

48v and 15A is about as high as you can go on a Q100, but you can go to at least 20A with a Q128.

 

How a hub-motor behaves, depends on the controller. If you don't set a speed limit, the power will ramp down and fade out as it approaches maximum rpm.

 

The 08 cases mostly have 60 cells in compared with 50 in the 09 case (read the description for exact details), so are 20% heavier. The 08 cases are much harder to fit because the screw holes don't line up with your bike's ones.

 

There are basically 3 flavours of Qxxx motors:

201 rpm = 15 mph (real OTR speed)

260 rpm = 19 mph

328 rpm = 24 mph

 

When you run a 36v 201 rpm at 48v, it becomes a 260 rpm one, and a 260 rpm one becomes a 48v one.

 

BMSB listing details are often incorrect. We know that the 201 rpm 36v Q128C is actually 260 rpm.

 

It used to be that the 36v QxxxH versions were the 260 rpm ones. They got the extra torque and power by changing the internal gear ratio from 8:1 to 12:1, but now it's not so easy to see which versions go at what speed and have which reduction ratio.

The reason we know the Q128 is wound 260rpm and not 201 as listed is because all of our motors @36v can bit 19 mph.

Wow thanks for your perseverance with me. The numbers are all a bit baffling for a newbee.

 

The q100c isnt available as a 260rpm it seems? is the q100c also down on power over the q100h as i read that the q100 was less than the newer q100h.

 

Sounds like i should go for the q100h as it will hit the low 20’s on 48v and the application is for a singlespeed. I was keen on the cassette version as single cassette sprockets are available cheaply down to 13t, but i can easily regear for a standard 16t freewheel

 

Or is there not much in it, the q100c is 32 holes which suits me better

I have a bike with a 36v 260rpm Q100H and with a total weight (me+bike) of about 80kg with a 36v battery, on my private land it managed to pull me along at 21/22mph without pedalling, that is with a 17a controller. I am quite impressed at the power it has for such a small size. If you wanted to use a 48v battery it would probably be better suited to the 201rpm version.

Couple of simple questions, just finalising my bmsbattery order.

 

Bottle 09 48v 11.6amp hr battery comes with 20a built in controller and charger. I am buying both q100c and q128c at 201rpm 36v. Is the 20amp controller ok on either, can the max amps be reduced in the lcd3.

 

I will also buy a second 09 base and second 20a internal controller (with lcd3 kit) https://bmsbattery.com/controller/698-sine-wave-controller-for-09-case-controller.html ,so i can build to ebikes with the one battery.

 

I’d like to buy a second charger, the one specified is s180, i think thats the emc180?, that is out of stock as an individual item, can i use the emc 240w version

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-charger-ev-charger/25-alloy-shell-240w-lifepo4-li-ion-lead-acid-battery-ebike-charger-ecitypower-charger.html

Couple of simple questions, just finalising my bmsbattery order.

 

Bottle 09 48v 11.6amp hr battery comes with 20a built in controller and charger. I am buying both q100c and q128c at 201rpm 36v. Is the 20amp controller ok on either, can the max amps be reduced in the lcd3.

 

I will also buy a second 09 base and second 20a internal controller (with lcd3 kit) https://bmsbattery.com/controller/698-sine-wave-controller-for-09-case-controller.html ,so i can build to ebikes with the one battery.

 

I’d like to buy a second charger, the one specified is s180, i think thats the emc180?, that is out of stock as an individual item, can i use the emc 240w version

https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-charger-ev-charger/25-alloy-shell-240w-lifepo4-li-ion-lead-acid-battery-ebike-charger-ecitypower-charger.html

 

1. Yes C5 parameter setting

2. Yes

Thankyou.

 

All parts ordered.

 

Fingers crossed now.

Hi Richard

I’m looking at that exact setup that you have ordered. I would hopefully be getting mine delivered to Spain. Do you know if there’s any other charges outside of the shipping charges that you pay to bms when getting shipped to Europe?

Thanks

 

 

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Never ordered from BMS but I have bought things from China before and expect to have to pay import duties and tax. There is a chance it will slip through but unlikely as I've placed a sizeable order. There are internet calculators tan can give you an estimate of what you will pay

https://www.simplyduty.com/import-calculator/

Duty is payable esp if FedEx deliver, expect it to be about the £25/30 mark. DHL I've never had to pay duty.

Often an invoice for duty will arrive a week or two after delivery.

Any kit purchased and posted from within the EU is of course duty free.

Thanks guys.

Looking to get it shipped from U.S. to Spain. I will have a look at that calculator.

I have also seen ads for companies on google where they give you an address in the U.S. and deliver to Europe for a fee. Will have to do some research to figure out the pros and cons.

 

 

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we can ship kits to Spain for £15 extra. You get normal support and warranty service.

 

Something like the XF08C kit perhaps?

 

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits#xf08ckit

 

And for tough hill climbing, 48V SWX02 kit (only in 26" rim though).

 

http://wooshbikes.co.uk/?hubkits#swx02-48v-kit

Sorry Richard it wasn’t my intention to hi-jack your thread.

 

Thanks Woosh. I did take a look at your website but I was swayed towards the Q128C 36V 500W 201rpm 26 inch wheel coupled with a 48V 11.6Ah battery with built in 20A sine wave controller from bms battery. I would be doing a bit of climbing with some 13% hills once a week (but mostly flat where speed isn’t a priority).

Is this something you could put together for me?

 

 

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Is this something you could put together for me?

I don't stock the Q128C because of its double stage reduction gearbox and consequently high reduction ratio. The SWX02 has single stage gearbox and bigger magnets. It's a bit heavier but the robustness is worth the extra weight. I don't do KT controllers either, only Lishui controllers.