October 16, 20187 yr Hi all, please excuse my short to the point points. I typed my essay style info / request before tea hoping to continue it after, unfortunately my 7yr old daughter doesn't know what open a new tab means and lost the lot. So in short I have a Chinese bike called Crane. The motor has got noisy at slow speed which quietens down as you build up speed, the throttle doesn't work from stand still and the King meter has error 24, hall sensor. The hall sensor with the yellow wire has a constant voltage of .42 whilst green and blue wires go from .42 to over 4v as you turn the wheel, measured at the block connecter by the speed controller. I now need to take the motor apart but with no make on the hub motor, just a number of XF1410VW1086, finding instructions has been impossible. I wonder if any one can help me out with how I get it apart please ? The motor is built into the wheel and is only the size of the brake disc. I will try to get some fotos, but until I get the wheel out there is little to see. Thanking you in anticipation and forever hopeful Mark
October 16, 20187 yr Hubs open in to ways they either have a side plate on the rhs which has 6 or more face plate screws or are screwed together. The first one is easy to open (usually ), the latter needs a lever made up and often needs to utilise any tapped screw holes used. A s you have said some pics will help us to help you. Edited October 16, 20187 yr by Nealh
October 16, 20187 yr An alternative solution, which although more expensive is quicker and requires less skill, is to use a digital controller that ignores the hall sensors in the motor.
October 16, 20187 yr Author Hubs open in to ways they either have a side plate on the rhs which has 6 or more face plate screws or are screwed together. The first one is easy to open (usually ), the latter needs a lever made up and often needs to utilise any tapped screw holes used. A s you have said some pics will help us to help you. Thank-you for your quick reply. I've just gone back out to the workshop to change the green and blue wires over, just to be sure it's the sensor and not a controller issue. The hub is held with 6 screws on the rhs
October 16, 20187 yr Author An alternative solution, which although more expensive is quicker and requires less skill, is to use a digital controller that ignores the hall sensors in the motor. Quicker and less skill....sounds up my street, depends on the cost ?
October 16, 20187 yr Thank-you for your quick reply. I've just gone back out to the workshop to change the green and blue wires over, just to be sure it's the sensor and not a controller issue. The hub is held with 6 screws on the rhs Remove the wheel and undo the screws face plate should come of may need even leverage around the edges to pull it off, on the opp face possibly may need an inner axle retaining nut to be undone to withdraw motor. If you do open it worth chucking more grease in if needed also worth checking any bearings for rough rotation with your fingers. Usually one on the left hand side and a central larger core one. Edited October 16, 20187 yr by Nealh
October 16, 20187 yr Author Remove the wheel and undo the screws face plate should come of may need even leverage around the edges to pull it off, on the opp face possibly may need an inner axle retaining nut to be undone to withdraw motor. If you do open it worth chucking more grease in if needed also worth checking any bearings for rough rotation with your fingers. Usually one on the left hand side and a central larger core one. Just back in from the workshop, just crossed wires to confirm the controller is ok-more useful snippets from someone with a similar problem to me on this site. So it looks like the next 5 minutes I get I'll be taking the wheel out for a look. Having just been looking at the wheel there seems some oxidisation build up around the screws and joint......let the fun begin Thank-you for your advice so far, I'm getting happier by the minute.
October 16, 20187 yr You can gently add some heat if things don't budge or try using a rubber mallet for gentle persuasion. Penetrating fluid may also help.
October 17, 20187 yr i am having a similar issue except one of mine shows a constant 2.25v luckily the replacements arrived today and will be fitted tomorrow as need to get to the other side of the motor which is more difficult...
October 17, 20187 yr Author Hubs open in to ways they either have a side plate on the rhs which has 6 or more face plate screws or are screwed together. The first one is easy to open (usually ), the latter needs a lever made up and often needs to utilise any tapped screw holes used. A s you have said some pics will help us to help you. I managed to take the wheel out and the six screws undone, the plate is still tight but it looks like I need to remove the sprocket set to get at the spindle nut. The sprocket is a shimano mc but I don't have a tool to remove them. I did undo the ring on the sprocket but did it back up before I had a bench full of ball bearings. Not so happy tonight.
October 17, 20187 yr Author i am having a similar issue except one of mine shows a constant 2.25v luckily the replacements arrived today and will be fitted tomorrow as need to get to the other side of the motor which is more difficult... Sounds like your where I wish I was. I ain't even got it apart yet and problems....oh the fun if it all.
October 18, 20187 yr Author i am having a similar issue except one of mine shows a constant 2.25v luckily the replacements arrived today and will be fitted tomorrow as need to get to the other side of the motor which is more difficult... Is yours anything like mine in the photo below and if so any tips you could offer a first time fixer would be gratefully received please ? Warm regards Mark Edited October 18, 20187 yr by B2stealth
October 18, 20187 yr Author You can gently add some heat if things don't budge or try using a rubber mallet for gentle persuasion. Penetrating fluid may also help. I removed the sprocket and bearings although not sure if that was necessary at that stage. Undone 6 screws for hub and gave a few taps with hammer and wood, no movement so I left it overnight to soak in. Went and gave it a few taps this morning and hey presto Do I need to remove the sprocket carrier to further dismantle and get to the wiring side of things ? Any help you can offer is gratefully received. Thanking you in anticipation Mark
October 18, 20187 yr I removed the sprocket and bearings although not sure if that was necessary at that stage. Undone 6 screws for hub and gave a few taps with hammer and wood, no movement so I left it overnight to soak in. Went and gave it a few taps this morning and hey presto Do I need to remove the sprocket carrier to further dismantle and get to the wiring side of things ? Any help you can offer is gratefully received. Thanking you in anticipation Mark hi, no mine isnt like that but i am just having the same issue getting at the wiring, just off to bike shop to get a freewheel remover so that i can get to the wiring side...
October 18, 20187 yr Quite a bit of rust in there B2, moisture/water as some stage has found it's way in. Noticeably there is a lack of grease, the hub will run a lot quieter and smoother if the planet gears and outer gear ring is well coated. On the lhs side you may have to undo a retaining/bearing nut for the innerds to come out.
October 18, 20187 yr Author Quite a bit of rust in there B2, moisture/water as some stage has found it's way in. Noticeably there is a lack of grease, the hub will run a lot quieter and smoother if the planet gears and outer gear ring is well coated. On the lhs side you may have to undo a retaining/bearing nut for the innerds to come out. Yes definitely damp in there, a couple of the bolts were probably only held in by the oxidisation, I shall put a sliver of grease or silicone when I put the outer cover back on. A bit of grease still remains around but not on the gears. When /if I fix/rebuild it-what grease should I use , I was hoping car cv (graphite) grease would be ok ? Tonight's installment was to remove the sprocket carrier, so after struggling with a pair of stilsons for an hour I took it to my local bike shop to get a removal tool. He didn't have 1 to sell but had 1 that unexpectedly fitted and got it off in about 20 seconds, we then chatted for an hour plus, putting the world to rights. I'll hopefully get out to the workshop later but think I'll have to source a puller tomorrow to get the planet gears off. Thanks for now Mark
October 18, 20187 yr Author Give a liberal slop of grease or a good cup full. Graphite grease should be ok. With a tip of the hat-Thankyou. I hope you can continue to lead me down this dark alley.. Grease. Will do thank-you. I managed to find a puller, in the loft...last box as usual, I knew I'd got one somewhere. I guess to remove the planet gears... I've removed the circlip and 3 bronze washers and then you just pull the planet gears off, looks like a key in there. Then to remove the rhs you just use the puller ?
October 19, 20187 yr just a quick update on mine with similar problem, i replaced all 3 hall sensors and they change values now going through the sequence, that seems correct but when i pull the throttle it still just judders so the next step for me is to look at the throttle hall sensor and see if that is goosed too, then if thats ok i will have to look at the controller... i will be ordering a cheap 48v 250W replacement and diagnosing the what may have blown on the original controller so i can understand how they are made and what happens at each stage. i am already considering making one from an arduino and writing the code myself from some snippets of code i have found on youtube and github. i hope you manage to get in and sort yours. the halls were very easy to replace on mine, although i didnt like how precarious the board that they were soldered to was sat on the motor so i rewired it to a different spot and secured it better.
October 19, 20187 yr Author just a quick update on mine with similar problem, i replaced all 3 hall sensors and they change values now going through the sequence, that seems correct but when i pull the throttle it still just judders so the next step for me is to look at the throttle hall sensor and see if that is goosed too, then if thats ok i will have to look at the controller... i will be ordering a cheap 48v 250W replacement and diagnosing the what may have blown on the original controller so i can understand how they are made and what happens at each stage. i am already considering making one from an arduino and writing the code myself from some snippets of code i have found on youtube and github. i hope you manage to get in and sort yours. the halls were very easy to replace on mine, although i didnt like how precarious the board that they were soldered to was sat on the motor so i rewired it to a different spot and secured it better. Sound like a right headache but unlike me it also sounds like ya know what your doing. I've taken planet gears off and key out, there is another keyed sprocket behind it Haven't quite built up the courage to pull the last bit that side to expose the hall sensors. Then I'm guessing the other side cover just pulls off. So annoying not having any instructions to follow. Do you know what's involved in using a hall less controller ?
October 24, 20187 yr Author Well it didn't go too well. I managed to get down to the nitty gritty of the motor but when I got there I came to the conclusion that my fingers were to big and my eyes too old to try to replace the hall sensor. So I put it back together after giving it abit of a clean and grease. Well it's still broke, but no worse for taking it apart. So now I decided to get a new hall sensor (or 3 ) and fit um. Well that's easier said than done as I can't get exactly the same numbers sensor. So really my questions are please... My hall sensor is 41F 402, I can get 41F but they don't have 402..... but 518, what is the difference in the 3 digits ? Does anyone do a hall sensor check/replace service or ideally to refurbish or replace what appears to be a copy of a XOFO motor ? Thanking you in fingers crossed hope Mark
October 25, 20187 yr My hall sensor is 41F 402, I can get 41F but they don't have 402 Any 41F bipolar hall sensors will be suitable replacements for the existing ones.
October 25, 20187 yr Author Any 41F bipolar hall sensors will be suitable replacements for the existing ones. OK thank-you.
October 25, 20187 yr these were the hall sensors i bought and was questioning whether i bought the right ones as the readings were strange until i plugged in my new controller... they are pretty easy to solder back up and to fit although i had to get a small flat head screw driver and make sure all the gunk was out of the slots for them.... i then used some 2 part epoxy (quick set 10 mins) and filed down the excess... this worked fine for me but beware that when testing them not connected to a controller they show strange values... this is because a 10k resistor is needed between 5v and sense wire to pull the voltage up as the controller does this for you normally.... here is my thread for the things i have been doing to get mine up and running again http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/judders-and-stops-when-throttle-pulled-on.32852/#post-464438 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6x-Bipolar-Hall-Effect-Sensor-41F-SS41-SH41-SS41F-Electric-Bike-Motor-Repair/281804272538?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
October 25, 20187 yr Author these were the hall sensors i bought and was questioning whether i bought the right ones as the readings were strange until i plugged in my new controller... they are pretty easy to solder back up and to fit although i had to get a small flat head screw driver and make sure all the gunk was out of the slots for them.... i then used some 2 part epoxy (quick set 10 mins) and filed down the excess... this worked fine for me but beware that when testing them not connected to a controller they show strange values... this is because a 10k resistor is needed between 5v and sense wire to pull the voltage up as the controller does this for you normally.... here is my thread for the things i have been doing to get mine up and running again http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/judders-and-stops-when-throttle-pulled-on.32852/#post-464438 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/6x-Bipolar-Hall-Effect-Sensor-41F-SS41-SH41-SS41F-Electric-Bike-Motor-Repair/281804272538?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 Thanks for that. I've just ordered some and now building up to take it apart again and have a go. I did try continuity testing from plug to sensors bit it gave me unexpected results so gave up on that idea. I hope it's a sensor and not a controller, it wouldn't be so bad if I could just buy of the shelf like for like, I guess that's my fault for buying this bike with my heart and not my head. Live and learn they say....mmmmm. So you back on the road now ? Sounds like a pain in the backside.
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