January 23, 20206 yr Why is it lawful to stop a man who it turns out is carrying a nasty weapon but not lawful to stop him if it turns out he's carrying no weapon? You can't answer that can you. QED. lol QED
January 23, 20206 yr its called policed buy consent same as the bbc tv licence and how they try to enforce that you sure wont get judged buy any jury at a common law court. its all fkn rigged
January 23, 20206 yr Of course the police can enter a house without a warrant, especially if someones life is in danger....
January 23, 20206 yr Of course the police can enter a house without a warrant, especially if someones life is in danger.... ?
January 23, 20206 yr Of course the police can enter a house without a warrant, especially if someones life is in danger.... A search warrant is a court order that a magistrate or judge issues to authorize law enforcement officers to conduct a search of a person, location, or vehicle for evidence of a crime and to confiscate any evidence they find. In most countries, a search warrant cannot be issued in aid of civil process. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_warrant
January 23, 20206 yr Why are you all getting so annoyed and worked up? Allegedly, someone we don't know posted something on facebook. Was it true? Did he tell the whole story or his sanitised version off events?
January 23, 20206 yr If the bike is the one on Facey thing then it has an illegal D/D hub which will be likely 1kw or more.
January 24, 20206 yr Why are you all getting so annoyed and worked up? Allegedly, someone we don't know posted something on facebook. Was it true? Did he tell the whole story or his sanitised version off events? Hang on a minute. You can't come on here and speak sense. Where will it all end?
January 24, 20206 yr Why are you all getting so annoyed and worked up? Allegedly, someone we don't know posted something on facebook. Was it true? Did he tell the whole story or his sanitised version off events? I was enjoying the banter to be honest the aurthur Blair was funny
January 24, 20206 yr The 'set my speed dial to 15' bit really messes his up his argument If a bike has a device that can set the cutoff speed to a different value - then it is not an ebike The rules/law are clear on that - but he seems to be admitting that he has a dial to set it to a speed. OK - it may be that this dial is buried deep in the system and it takes a screwdriver and 3 allen keys to get to it - but it does NOT read that way Still - my reading of this is that the cyclist has a dodgy ebike (legally) - but the police person had no real evidence and fancied a go There is no way he could test the speed cut off by riding it unless the motor is really loud - I have had 4 ebikes (still have 2 of them) and by the time I get to 15.5 mph the wind noise masks the motor noise on all of them. The only way to test it would be on a test rig - which I know my LBS has set up in their shop - currently it is cycling into a warm fire due to the weather
January 24, 20206 yr I can feel the hubs cutting in & out on my bikes which have used Bafang BPM & CST, AKM128 and a Yose hub.
January 25, 20206 yr I must admit I had assumed the bike had a big DD hub motor. The battery should manage to last a bit.
January 25, 20206 yr Turn the battery off and say crack on mate , I bet it would be back in two minutes ;-)
January 25, 20206 yr The petrol tank looking battery just screams "I'm a motorbike!" Even though it's not.
February 2, 20206 yr Probably. Nevertheless, the authorities aren't authorised to test criminality, by suspicion alone, in a bid to find evidence. I believe that the "search on the street" laws in the UK have been liberally updated for many reasons over the years, knives, drugs and weapons come to mind. Vehicles have been described as weapons many times when driven in a dangerous manner.... Furthermore, the safety of ALL everyday citizens is always paramount. I am also sure that the Police will simply state that the law allows a max of 15.5 MPH, and they need to be able to check that out, easily and quickly! Making a fuss will not help and will possibly give the police even stronger reasons to test a bike immediately, before the controller program can be altered in any way.... It's really incorrect to have a bike that is too fast..... Breaking the speed limit in ANY vehicle carries penalties with it if caught out! Also driving speed restricted vehicles above their legal speed, is also illegal, and always has been! It is a personal choice whether or not to respect the laws where you live, and also taking full responsibility when caught! Regards Andy PS. Maybe the Policeman was just thinking of buying an e-bike? I know that after one short ride 8 or 9 years ago, I was 100% convinced!
February 2, 20206 yr A Police Officer test riding someone's bike down the road isn't an expert testing method. But could possibly lead to the bike showing itself to be modified, leading to it being immediately confiscated, proper accurate testing and a possibly expensive conviction! No thanks. It's far simpler to either stay completely off road, or ride legally when on it. Andy
February 2, 20206 yr I believe that the "search on the street" laws in the UK have been liberally updated for many reasons over the years, knives, drugs and weapons come to mind. But not bicycle batteries. Vehicles have been described as weapons many times when driven in a dangerous manner.... Will the next terror attack be on an ebike? Furthermore, the safety of ALL everyday citizens is always paramount. Of course. However, so is their liberty and freedom to go about their lives without harassment from the state or other entities. I am also sure that the Police will simply state that the law allows a max of 15.5 MPH, and they need to be able to check that out, easily and quickly! But not by riding it on the public highway. Cars have been allowed to do no more than 70 mph, in the UK, since 1965. Yet they are all made to do many more miles per hour. Why not take those for a spin? The offence isn't an offence until it's been committed and proved to have been committed. An ebike doing more mph than 15.5 mph is not an offence. Intention is not proved by the police taking a bike for a spin down the road. Making a fuss will not help and will possibly give the police even stronger reasons to test a bike You don't need to make a fuss to say "No." If they insisted on doing so the owner could have asked for a written seizure note. Or one that accepts full responsibility, in writing, for any damage done by the police while they ride a suspected overpowered ebike down the public highway. Which, in itself proves nothing. It's really incorrect to have a bike that is too fast... All bikes are capable of breaking an urban speed limit. Breaking the speed limit in ANY vehicle carries penalties with it if caught out! This particular guy was not 'caught out' in that way. Also driving speed restricted vehicles above their legal speed, is also illegal, and always has been! An ebike has no speed limiters. Other than the cutoff, ebikes are not speed restricted. They can be rode perfectly legally at speeds well in excess of 15.5 mph. It is a personal choice whether or not to respect the laws where you live The guy in question had not broke any laws. also taking full responsibility when caught! He wasn't caught. But could possibly lead to the bike showing itself to be modified, leading to it being immediately confiscated, proper accurate testing and a possibly expensive conviction! Testing peoples' rides on the public highway, and then giving an unqualified opinion, is not proof of wrongdoing. Convictions require an appropriate chain of evidence. Legality must be observed. Even when it's murder.. Allegedly. Maybe the Policeman was just thinking of buying an e-bike? There's always Halfords and the regular channels for trying out a bike.
February 2, 20206 yr An ebike doing more mph than 15.5 mph is not an offence. Intention is not proved by the police taking a bike for a spin down the road. It's illegal to ride an ebike that's capable of providing assistance at over 15.5mph, whatever speed you happen to be cycling at. It isn't illegal to drive a car that's capable of doing 140mph provided you are not exceeding the speed limit. There are big holes in many of your other points but I can't be arsed....
February 2, 20206 yr It's illegal to ride an ebike that's capable of providing assistance at over 15.5mph, whatever speed you happen to be cycling at. It isn't illegal to drive a car that's capable of doing 140mph provided you are not exceeding the speed limit. These facts we all know. Yet that in itself does not constitute proof of having sped. The biggest hole is that, until you have been caught speeding, there must be a presumption of innocence. Which wasn't observed in this incident. I can't be arsed.... There's a big hole in that too.
February 2, 20206 yr These facts we all know. Yet that in itself does not constitute proof of having sped. The biggest hole is that, until you have been caught speeding, there must be a presumption of innocence. Which wasn't observed in this incident. Actually the facts are not known, it was a guess early in the thread that it was about speed. The officer was perhaps more likely to think it could be over powered since it looked like a kit setup, so there were visible signs for suspicion. Presumption of innocence is only for the courts, it doesn't apply to the police, if they always presumed innocence they would never arrest anyone. All they need to detain someone for questioning is "reasonable suspicion", which can take many forms. For example for a weapons search it might only be appearance combined with location, nothing more. "Copper's nose" in other words, traffic police often work a similar way on suspicion. This seems to me to be a storm in a teacup, personally if stopped by an officer on suspicion my e-bike was illegal, I'd be delighted for him to try it to clear it as OK on the spot. After all, the official method is he confiscates it, calls for a van, it gets taken to the police pound for technical examination in due course and you are left to walk or take public transport home. Days later, maybe weeks later, you get a notification that the bike was ok and you can collect it, all of which is completely legal and compensation not claimable. Is that what any of you want to happen? Isn't it better the officer has a quick try, asks the odd question and then says , all ok, sorry to have bothered you sir? . Edited February 2, 20206 yr by flecc
February 2, 20206 yr Isn't it better the officer has a quick try, asks the odd question and then says , all ok, sorry to have bothered you sir? No. What if the guy had his bike set to go fast.. Fortunately he didn't have it set up that way. Or he set it to a slower max speed moments before the police took it for a ride. Although, that point didn't seemed to have the police fooled and they appeared to be well aware of it's variable speed settings. Yet, they still let him bust case and be on his way! Interesting to say the least.
February 2, 20206 yr It's illegal to ride an ebike that's capable of providing assistance at over 15.5mph, whatever speed you happen to be cycling at. It isn't illegal to drive a car that's capable of doing 140mph provided you are not exceeding the speed limit. There are big holes in many of your other points but I can't be arsed.... Great post of yours and I guess most members here are less anti road laws and the police in General! To copy you:- There are big holes in many of his "points" but I can't be "arsed" either!!....As it would be a complete waste of time and inconvenience too many electrons! Andy
February 2, 20206 yr No. What if the guy had his bike set to go fast.. Fortunately he didn't have it set up that way. Or he set it to a slower max speed moments before the police took it for a ride. Although, that point didn't seemed to have the police fooled and they appeared to be well aware of it's variable speed settings. Yet, they still let him bust case and be on his way! Interesting to say the least. I'm not surprised he wasn't fooled, many of our forces arevery familiar with e-bikes, having had them on trial or in some cases bought numbers of them. It was probably his knowledge that prompted him to try the bike. So what if it was set for higher speed, he'd easily detect well over 15 mph assist without a speedo to read. I don't understand your attitude to this, it's not a crime, it's a minor regulatory matter that isn't going to harm anyone. There's nothing an e-bike can do to anyone that an unpowered bike can't also do, so why the harsh attitude? Wanting confiscation and all the rigmarole that follows, including unnecessary private and public costs, instead of informally clearing it. After all, it he did find anything, it would still be confiscated and the law complied with. .
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