Oh dear! Sorry to be negative again, but we've been discussing the fast response of KT controllers since 2013 - long before the MiRider was even a figment of anybody's imagination. Don't try and blind us with science when we've been working with these things for so long.

 

I'm not judging your bike. I like all electric bikes, but when people spout crap, it makes me not trust them.

 

Maybe the misinformation is not your fault because you've been spun a yarn by your suppliers and you swallowed it. My grandad's dying words to me were, "Never trust a Chinaman". I've never forgotten them. I love Chinese people, but that doesn't mean I have to trust them.

 

Im not spouting crap, merely trying to inform people who havent been into electric bikes for years and thus might not have a great understanding of the technology of the facts behind our ebike. What ebike have you built yourself out of interest?

 

I guess if youre not in the market for a 16" Folding Ebike you really dont need to involve yourself anymore with this thread.....

Im not spouting crap, merely trying to inform people who havent been into electric bikes for years and thus might not have a great understanding of the technology of the facts behind our ebike.

So just say it as it is: You've asked the Chinese suppliers about controllers, cables, etc, and they've proposed the system that you have, which you think is nice and waterproof, the controller has current control and a fast response time so it's very user friendly. You don't need to try and kid anyone that you've invented these things and they're unique to your bike.

What ebike have you built yourself out of interest?

I've built countless bikes of all types with all sorts of drive systems.

I guess if youre not in the market for a 16" Folding Ebike you really dont need to involve yourself anymore with this thread.....

I'm involved with all electric bikes, regardless of wheel size. One of the purposes of this forum is to provide people with accurate information so that they can make suitably informed choices. I've been doing my best to achieve that for the last 10 years that I've been on this forum. Don't try to tell me which threads I get involved in or else we're going to fall out very quickly.

All my KT controllers are torque simulation as that is what the Chinese like to call current control, they only need the 1/4 turn to activate. These are std off the shelf ones sold by many vendors, a lot of 12 pole magnets are used with KT controllers.

When CANbus is mentioned is full hands on handshaking so another battery can't be used or is it just the display and controller use tx/rx comms between each other as with all KT stuff ?

We at MiRider are proud of our bike. Id hapily pit it against any other available folding ebike all day long.

 

If I was in the market for a lightweight folding bike, I might look at this

https://promotion.geekbuying.com/promotion/fiido_d11_folding_electric_bike?from=addthis-left

 

£800

11.6ah battery

12.9kg

7 speed

20" wheels

 

Perhaps a head to head test could be arranged, after all, at £500 less, that's a lot of money to not spend or spend on something else

 

Already some comparisons made on this test below

 

https://www.techadvisor.co.uk/test-centre/gadget/best-electric-bikes-3670308/#toc-3670308-8

So just say it as it is: You've asked the Chinese suppliers about controllers, cables, etc, and they've proposed the system that you have, which you think is nice and waterproof, the controller has current control and a fast response time so it's very user friendly. You don't need to try and kid anyone that you've invented these things and they're unique to your bike.

 

I've built countless bikes of all types with all sorts of drive systems.

 

I'm involved with all electric bikes, regardless of wheel size. One of the purposes of this forum is to provide people with accurate information so that they can make suitably informed choices. I've been doing my best to achieve that for the last 10 years that I've been on this forum. Don't try to tell me which threads I get involved in or else we're going to fall out very quickly.

And I am also providing factually correct information about our bike. Looking at your history on here you seem to troll every thread.....I suggest you put down the UFC Keyboard warrior gloves and go out and ride a bike rather than trolling this thread. over and Out......

And I am also providing factually correct information about our bike.

Quote: "I then worked with the manufacturer KT to modify one of their Sine Wave controllers to offer what I call "Torque Simulation"".

 

Factually incorrect. KT have been producing torque simulation controllers for 8 years - long before you ever contacted them.

 

Quote: ""Torque Simulation" is used by other controller manufacturers correct....but the solution we have arrived at supplys PAS "Go" within less than a 1/4 turn of crank roation.....where most if not all others require far more before PAS is triggered".

 

Factually incorrect. That's nothing that you came up with. KT controllers have been like that from the beginning 8 years ago. What you mean is that you didn't like the massive delay from the cheapo controller on the standard Chinese original bike, the supplier showed you how the much better KT controller works, and you accepted it. You had no involvement whatsoever in the development in that controller nor the way it works.

 

PS. I think your chilli eating contests have caused too much hot air to come out of your head.

Edited October 19, 20205 yr by vfr400

And I am also providing factually correct information about our bike. Looking at your history on here you seem to troll every thread.....I suggest you put down the UFC Keyboard warrior gloves and go out and ride a bike rather than trolling this thread. over and Out......

I see vfr has restrained himself from responding to the word 'troll' so I will. If you look at all deeply at his posting history you will see he is in the top three (probably the very top) of helpful technical posts, and has helped a huge number of people; working hard to extract the relevant information from them and give good advice. About as far from trolling as can be.

I see vfr has restrained himself from responding to the word 'troll' so I will. If you look at all deeply at his posting history you will see he is in the top three (probably the very top) of helpful technical posts, and has helped a huge number of people; working hard to extract the relevant information from them and give good advice. About as far from trolling as can be.

Yep agree, VFR is all over this forum helping out with advice and technical queries, and has been for many years, the 'go to guy'. He also is to the point and cuts through the BS, which is a characteristic I like in folk

Quote: "I then worked with the manufacturer KT to modify one of their Sine Wave controllers to offer what I call "Torque Simulation"".

 

Factually incorrect. KT have been producing torque simulation controllers for 8 years - long before you ever contacted them.

 

Quote: ""Torque Simulation" is used by other controller manufacturers correct....but the solution we have arrived at supplys PAS "Go" within less than a 1/4 turn of crank roation.....where most if not all others require far more before PAS is triggered".

 

Factually incorrect. That's nothing that you came up with. KT controllers have been like that from the beginning 8 years ago. What you mean is that you didn't like the massive delay from the cheapo controller on the standard Chinese original bike, the supplier showed you how the much better KT controller works, and you accepted it. You had no involvement whatsoever in the development in that controller nor the way it works.

 

PS. I think your chilli eating contests have caused too much hot air to come out of your head.

Thanks for your words of wisdom VFR.

Thanks for your words of wisdom VFR.

It's a pleasure. I'm always willing to help. Stick to Dhansak and below and you'll be fine - maybe a Bhuna on a Friday, as you can keep the hot air in over the weekend.

 

To help you a bit more and, hopefully, prevent you getting into trouble with admin, trade members are supposed to register as such, not as normal private accounts.

Edited October 19, 20205 yr by vfr400

It's a pleasure. I'm always willing to help. Stick to Dhansak and below and you'll be fine - maybe a Bhuna on a Friday, as you can keep the hot air in over the weekend.

 

To help you a bit more and, hopefully, prevent you getting into trouble with admin, trade members are supposed to register as such, not as normal private accounts.

 

Dhansak...that's a southern shandy drinking softies curry....more suited to you Essex boy .

 

I'm not going to register on here as a trade member thanks.

It's a pleasure. I'm always willing to help. Stick to Dhansak and below and you'll be fine - maybe a Bhuna on a Friday, as you can keep the hot air in over the weekend.

 

To help you a bit more and, hopefully, prevent you getting into trouble with admin, trade members are supposed to register as such, not as normal private accounts.

On a lighter note, I hope your VFR400 is an NC30? A pukka bike and I'd love to own one....one day.

Another run out on Sunday with a couple of mates. Very similar route along well maintained part of the Trans Pennine Trail comprising canal path and a circuit of the nearby lake and golf course before returning home. Nothing too taxing in terms of terrain although a few patches of mud and wet leaves made for interesting handling with narrow handlebars.

 

A combination of understanding when and how to use PAS (or not) has extended the range further. The total ride was 8.5 - 9 miles (we all forgot to start Strava) and similar elevation of c350 ft and the MiRider had just dropped to 2/4 bars when I arrived home. No pubs unfortunately as we’re in Tier 3 but we had taken a suitable halfway refreshment with us.

 

Most surprising was that the other 2 riders had to get off and push while the MiRider easily accomplished climbs of around 6.5%. Considering one of the others was also a folding ebike (an Apollo Transport or similar) I thought the little orange folder did well, although the rider of the Apollo is going through the same learning curve as me with the added complication of getting in the wrong gear most of the time.

 

The only hiccup is an occasional drag sensation which I think may be the rear brake.

Don't be lulled into false security by that battery gauge. With 2 bars showing, you wouldn't have been able to go much further. The gauge isn't linear. it's always good to run your battery right down once so you can see how the gauge behaves. Bear in mind also that the battery will sag when you go up hills, so will cut out before it's empty.

Don't be lulled into false security by that battery gauge. With 2 bars showing, you wouldn't have been able to go much further. The gauge isn't linear. it's always good to run your battery right down once so you can see how the gauge behaves. Bear in mind also that the battery will sag when you go up hills, so will cut out before it's empty.

 

 

 

Trust me, I’d never live it down if I had to phone the missus for recovery and that’s why we’re doing shortish rides to establish the real world range. I’m last house on the route home and up another steep hill. It was good to see that after the battery rested it bounced back to 3/4 which is consistent with the behaviour noted on the first ride. Also, again on the first ride, it seems that the last bar on the gauge is very similar to the last 30 seconds on any Microsoft installation (and I‘ve been around since MS-DOS). I expected to be pushing home but it managed the long drag and the final climb home without any bother.

First post folks so hello.

I'm glad so many of you like a straight talker as that's my MO. I can share direct from experience and 500 miles covered so far with my Mirider One 2020 model. (In Orange)

Private customer with no affiliation. Not technically minded.

 

The extra cost vs just buying over the internet it gives me peace of mind with a UK based company, 2 year warranty, better build spec, great customer service, easy parts supply, good accessories, clear branding, company ethos etc etc. No brainer for me.

 

Believe all the positives that are on this thread and in the published reports. I won't repeat them all but the positives far outway any negatives.

Some thoughts on previous moments om this post:

 

VFR400 stated "if it's showing 2 bar it wouldn't go much further" . This is not accurate. The battery will go down to showing no bars and will still have some range left. Naturally this decreases the higher the assistance required.

 

Areas for improvement:

1. Real world battery life between 15-20 miles, I live in a hilly area and weigh 90-95kg, and use the full setting range so that's good in my view. The 30 mile range the company states is ideal world and clearly low setting with a light rider. If it was on setting 5 continuously then yes 10 miles likely. I personally just bought an extra battery and the company are planning on a bigger capacity battery I believe this year too.

2. Lacking rear light as standard: yes but then I just bought a simple rear light accessory from them.

3. Single gear: positive and negative. I like the simplicity when riding and easier to maintain. Top end flat out peddling is 19 mph on the flat. So an extra gear would increase top end speed which would help to keep up with some other pro riders on racers however its not what the machine is really designed for. I simply enjoy passing them on the hills!

4. Some accessories missing from their catalogue but that's just a matter of time.

5. Needs a taller handlebar option to match the taller seat option but standard set up good for my 6ft frame. I believe the 2021 model has a larger handlebar range.

6. I think the odometer is reading up to 10% optimistic, when compared to my GPS.. Not confirmed but I am suspicious that is the case.

7. Can't put a grommet on underside bolt to rear luggage rack only front which means you need to tighten after every 20 miles or so if carrying a heavier load in the rear bag. It was worked its way loose a couple of times and marked the paint now.

8. Original seat is too hard. I just put a gel cover on it for comfort.

9. Handlebars ideally need to be a bit wider to accomodate extra attachments/accessories.

 

Some other negatives are miner e.g. lack of countdown to 0 miles, bike motor will kick in if walking along on any setting between 1-5 which means you need to be aware you are not caught out and turn it off or to 0. Mudguards could be a bit longer to avoid extra splash, stronger magnets to hold bike together but again I believe the 2021 model has stronger magnets.

 

I am sure there is a few more things but I hope the above helps for now.

 

On a separate note I value and appreciate good knowledgeable experienced individuals aiming to provide support to others and look forward to accessing that wealth of information. However I have concerns in any forum using unnecessary profanity, using statements which could be viewed as broadly racist e.g. "don't trust a chinaman". All this does is undermine any points being made, lowers the overall tone and devalues any forum in general, in my view. This post was my first experience of Pedelecs and so it potentially could put others off from joining. I'm not a snowflake far from it. I'm old fashioned and basically like politeness and manners.

You can be direct as I am being now but still be respectful too.

 

Thanks folks

However I have concerns in any forum using unnecessary profanity, using statements which could be viewed as broadly racist e.g. "don't trust a chinaman".

Racism didn't exist when my grandfther said that to me. Seeing as you like to be pragmatic, ask anybody that has been trading with Chinese suppliers whether they can trust their suppliers. I can remember just about every trader on this forum pulling out their hair when they saw the surprises in their new deliveries of bikes. Dealing with Chinese suppliers is completely different to European ones. It's taken a lot of work by these people to get to a level where they can expect to get what they want. That's not being racist. It's being factual.

 

Regarding your bike, the concern I have is that the battery is likely to wear out very quickly because of the very high current running through the cells. The guy mentioned that they use CANbus comms, which means that you can't replace the battery with the standard Chinese one that's fitten in the Onebot (unless what he says isn't true). You will only be able to get the battery from Mirider, and that's if they're still around and still got them in stock, otherwise your bike will become a garden ornament, like many others with CANbus.

I used to be a buyer for a large multi national.. I would say "don't trust a Chinese businessman.."

 

After days of negotiation, they would say yes to everything, then they would still go and do their own thing and deliver the exact opposite. Highly frustrating!

 

QA, if it can be swerved by them is a total nightmare.

I used to be a buyer for a large multi national.. I would say "don't trust a Chinese businessman.."

 

After days of negotiation, they would say yes to everything, then they would still go and do their own thing and deliver the exact opposite. Highly frustrating!

 

QA, if it can be swerved by them is a total nightmare.

Yes, my (fond) experience of working with Chinese people in another sphere altogether (software) is that their 'yes' has a totally different meaning from our 'yes'.

Yes, my (fond) experience of working with Chinese people in another sphere altogether (software) is that their 'yes' has a totally different meaning from our 'yes'.

I agree. Having spent 3 years working over there, I soon discovered that they don’t say ”no” to the boss but they don’t necessarily do what they said “yes” to. And whatever you do, don’t cause any loss of face !

Back on the topic of the MiRider One batteries, I’ve found that the original has around 15% less endurance than the second battery I purchased but, as I’ve still only done around 120 miles in total, I’ll see how they fare in the summer.

 

I don’t fully understand why a MiRider battery would wear out quicker than any other due to the current running through it. Sure 5 Ah will run out quicker than a 10Ah battery but I get the same range using 2 batteries as a mate with one 11Ah battery. Don’t all 36V / 250W pedelec systems have a similar current or am I missing something ?

I don’t fully understand why a MiRider battery would wear out quicker than any other due to the current running through it. Sure 5 Ah will run out quicker than a 10Ah battery but I get the same range using 2 batteries as a mate with one 11Ah battery. Don’t all 36V / 250W pedelec systems have a similar current or am I missing something ?

You have half as many cells in a 5Ah battery as a 10Ah one, so each cell has to give twice as much current. A 5Ah battery is probably 10S2P. A low to medium powered 36v ebike normally runs at 12 A ot 15A, so each of your cells would have to give 6A or 7.5A. If it were a 10Ah 10S4P battery, each cell would be giving 3A or 3.75A. In one case, the cells are running at the top of what they can do. In the other case, they're cruising.

 

The more current you take from the cells, the lower the capacity too, so although your battery is supposed to be nominally 5Ah, You won't get much more than 4Ah out of it if you run with any meaningful assistance.

 

The more current you take from a battery, the faster it wears out.

 

The more current, you take from the cells, the more sag you get, so the lower your power too, as the maximum current is fixed by the controller, and power =current x volts. You have the same current, but not as many volts.

 

Comparing consumption with another bike is only meaningful if you ride together, are the same weight and pedal as hard as each other

You have half as many cells in a 5Ah battery as a 10Ah one, so each cell has to give twice as much current. A 5Ah battery is probably 10S2P. A low to medium powered 36v ebike normally runs at 12 A ot 15A, so each of your cells would have to give 6A or 7.5A. If it were a 10Ah 10S4P battery, each cell would be giving 3A or 3.75A. In one case, the cells are running at the top of what they can do. In the other case, they're cruising.

 

The more current you take from the cells, the lower the capacity too, so although your battery is supposed to be nominally 5Ah, You won't get much more than 4Ah out of it if you run with any meaningful assistance.

 

The more current you take from a battery, the faster it wears out.

 

The more current, you take from the cells, the more sag you get, so the lower your power too, as the maximum current is fixed by the controller, and power =current x volts. You have the same current, but not as many volts.

 

Comparing consumption with another bike is only meaningful if you ride together, are the same weight and pedal as hard as each other

 

As it happens we genuinely do ride together as we lack the discipline to do it otherwise. We’re also lucky enough to live within a few hundred yards of the Trans Pennine Trail and it makes sense (well at our age anyway) to ride on a buddy system. Luckily we’ve only had punctures to deal with but a friend of mine had a cardiac arrest whilst riding solo

 

Observations so far are that we broadly match battery endurance Ah to Ah and i guess I’ll have to cross the replacement scenario as and when but, with 2 batteries and a 500 recharge cycle capacity, they’ll do for another few years.

 

Does the torque of the motor also have an impact on the cell current ? And, if I buy a Tesla, should I always go for the maximum battery capacity ?

 

The last question is quite relevant as my jammy sister may be getting one as a company car !

Edited January 30, 20215 yr by Barnsleyrob

It's the othe way round. Torque is more or less proportional to battery current, not cell current. The current is fixed to a maximum by the controller at low speed, but at normal and high speed it depends on the net voltage, which is the battery voltage minus the back emf, so a high sag battery will give less torque .

 

Also a small battery will always have a lower voltage than a big onefor the entire journey because the voltage goes down from 42v to 31v as the battery discharges, so when the 5Ah battery is 31v, the 10Ah one would be 36v.