I think I will change my mind?

 

If there are no legal e-bikes to be purchased I might as well opt for the Proconnect S if they are available in the UK? Who knows, one day when our politicians sort themselves out and get down to updating legislation I might be able to use it legally!

 

Where did the 50 Cycles link from this site go?

 

I sympathise, it is a messy situation. The best approach is that of all the manufacturers and customers at present, just sell and buy e-bikes and not allow the politicians inefficiency to withhold benefits we are entitled to. In virtually all cases the customers are simply not aware of the legal non-compliance, and that's probably true of many manufacturers as well.

 

I understand if you feel you cannot do that in all conscience.

 

50cycles advertising link from this site went some while ago after they got upset about some comments, but I'm not sure of the current relationship status.

 

50cycles

.

Flecc,

 

I have just opened an email from Mark at Cytronex, something I have been waiting for some months. He has provided a link to his new bikes but not the kit. The Cytronex bike prices have gone up quite a bit since I made the initial enquiry but I'm not sure that what he is offering has any significant added value over the 2008 range.

 

50 Cycles Kalkhoff Pro Connect Bikes look to be better value given the fact that they appear to have been subject to independant inspection tests. I was quite impressed how Tim pitched 50 Cycles defense of the Pro Connect S on Pedelec Forums. I am going to have to think about whether the extra assist range, gearing and hydraulic brakes are worth the additional expense.

 

I have learned how e-bikes are not exactly what suppliers/sales people tell you. Thank you for your guidance it has been much appreciated.

 

I am also very grateful to Pedelec Forums for providing this site.

 

Almost forgot. 50 Cycles/Kalkhoff have a forum for their customers, but I don't know if that is a selling point because this site has been so good.

I have a high opinion of the Kalkhoff bikes, they are a very good option.

 

Having an agent's brand specific forum in addition is an added benefit, getting feedback from many owners undiluted by all the other items that appear in a general forum like this. They are complementary though, the impartiality of this forum and it's source of a second opinion being useful.

 

I understand the Cytronex kit will not be available until much later in the season, possibly August. The price increases of the Cytronex bikes were matched by those of other brands. The main difference is that the other suppliers increases were much earlier, the Cytronex ones later due to the bikes not being available for a while. The reason for that non-availability was a switch in bike brands used due to a change in the previously used Trek bike design making it no longer suitable for conversion.

.

Flecc,

 

I have seen quite a few Trek bikes in bike stands and was not impressed by their condition; I don't think they were as old as my Raleigh P4000! I think Mark at Cytronex has made a wise move by using other bicycle makes.

 

My Raleigh P4000 was just a average bike, any new bike will outclass its specification. I am increasingly looking forward to getting an e-bike now because only once I have tried one, will I appreciate the difference and appreciate the comments of Pedelec Forum members.

 

I wish I could have gone to Presteigne, it looks fun as well as a good way of comparing e-bikes. I have been looking at the various photographs and members comments with interest hoping to catch some comments on the Cytronex Kit and Kalkhoff Pro Connect S/Tasman.

 

Did Tim from 50-Cycles have a Tasman or ProConnect S at Presteige?

 

I have not seen any specific comments or seen any photographs on Pedelec Forums on these e-bikes which is surprising.

 

Side tracking a bit, do you know of any folding bike which utilises the same battery as the Kalhoff Proconnect/Tasman range?

Dynamic,

 

I too have seen quite a few Trek bikes in bike stands and was not impressed by their condition. Come to think of it I haven't been impressed by the condition of most bikes in bike stands. I think it's an anti theft thing.

Flecc,

 

Did Tim from 50-Cycles have a Tasman or ProConnect S at Presteige?

 

I have not seen any specific comments or seen any photographs on Pedelec Forums on these e-bikes which is surprising.

 

Side tracking a bit, do you know of any folding bike which utilises the same battery as the Kalhoff Proconnect/Tasman range?

 

I wasn't at Presteigne so don't know what Tim used there.

 

There are two folders using the Panasonic unit and battery, both Flyer models from Swiss manufacturer BikeTech. Great quality but very expensive. The prices I show below the photo are slightly out of date so may be a little different now:

 

[ATTACH]726.vB[/ATTACH]

 

Faltrad NS 20kg, Shimano 8 gear Nexus standard, Shimano roller pulse braking (anti-skid) BM-IM70 V-Brake, £2,100

 

Faltrad KS 19kg, Shimano 9 gear Capreo £2,100

Panasonic make one as well but its not currently sold outside Japan as far as I know.

.

Edited May 21, 200916 yr by flecc

Flecc,

 

I have seen quite a few Trek bikes in bike stands and was not impressed by their condition; I don't think they were as old as my Raleigh P4000! I think Mark at Cytronex has made a wise move by using other bicycle makes.

 

My Raleigh P4000 was just a average bike, any new bike will outclass its specification. I am increasingly looking forward to getting an e-bike now because only once I have tried one, will I appreciate the difference and appreciate the comments of Pedelec Forum members.

 

I wish I could have gone to Presteigne, it looks fun as well as a good way of comparing e-bikes. I have been looking at the various photographs and members comments with interest hoping to catch some comments on the Cytronex Kit and Kalkhoff Pro Connect S/Tasman.

 

Did Tim from 50-Cycles have a Tasman or ProConnect S at Presteige?

 

I have not seen any specific comments or seen any photographs on Pedelec Forums on these e-bikes which is surprising.

 

Side tracking a bit, do you know of any folding bike which utilises the same battery as the Kalhoff Proconnect/Tasman range?

 

Yes there was a Tasman, but not a PC-S

 

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ed6h5y0PLJI/Sgcg95Ot4DI/AAAAAAAAAMA/mTf6IoSjFgs/s800/S73F2861.JPG

Edited May 21, 200916 yr by JohnInStockie

The other thing I forgot to mention was that the Gepida bikes had a Crank freewheel, meaning that the chain didnt move when you back pedalled, something I have never seen before.

 

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ed6h5y0PLJI/SgchV-8FC6I/AAAAAAAAAMg/GxwFWzqmLms/s800/S73F2879.JPG

 

In there brochure they also had a folding electric trike, something else I had not seen before either.

 

John

Edited May 21, 200916 yr by JohnInStockie

The other thing I forgot to mention was that the Gepida bikes had a Crank freewheel, meaning that the chain didnt move when you back pedalled, something I have never seen before.

 

In there brochure they also had a folding electric trike, something else I had not seen before either.

 

John

 

All the Panasonic units have that too John, the same on your one. It's essential on these bikes that drive

the chain, so the motor overrun doesn't kick the pedals from under the rider's feet.

 

They have three freewheels:

 

1) The back one on the rear wheel to allow freewheeling.

 

2) one on the motor output drive so the rider can pedal without turning the motor.

 

3) On the chainwheel as described above.

 

The only way to dribble oil onto a chain as it runs past is turn the rear wheel backwards!

 

Here's the inner and outer (two views) parts of the Panasonic chainwheel freewheel:

 

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/flecc/images/freewstrip4.jpghttp://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/flecc/images/pedalinput.jpg

Edited May 21, 200916 yr by flecc

All the Panasonic units have that too John, the same on your one. It's essential on these bikes that drive the chain, so the motor overrun doesn't kick the pedals from under the rider's feet.

 

Sorry Flecc I think you mis-understand, when you back pedal, the chain does not move at all, it stays completely still!

 

I dont have that on mine (do I - you know I have never tested that)

 

John

Sorry Flecc I think you mis-understand, when you back pedal, the chain does not move at all, it stays completely still!

 

I dont have that on mine (do I - you know I have never tested that)

 

John

 

No misunderstanding John, yours is the same. Back pedal and the chain stays still and has to as

I've said above. I've added photos above of the pawl based freewheel that's on the chainwheel

shaft, the chainwheel sitting on those splines. When you turn the chainwheel backwards, those

two pawls skip past the serrations in the outer part. The pedal shaft runs independently in the

centre of those on it's own needle rollers.

.

Edited May 21, 200916 yr by flecc

There are two folders using the Panasonic unit and battery, both Flyer models from Swiss manufacturer BikeTech. Great quality but very expensive. The prices I show below the photo are slightly out of date so may be a little different now:

 

 

I have come to expect these sort of prices on 2009 bikes!

 

Thanks John for posting the feedback, it looks as if I will have to order a Tasman crossbar or a ProConnect.

 

Flecc, what happens if you pedal backwards while moving on a Kalkhoff pedelec?

 

Flecc, what happens if you pedal backwards while moving on a Kalkhoff pedelec?

 

Nothing other than the pedalshaft turning. The chainwheel and chain stay still, and there's no motor drive since

no torque force is being applied to the magnetic pedelec sensor by pedal effort.

 

It will glide gracefully to a standstill.

.

Nothing other than the pedalshaft turning. The chainwheel and chain stay still, and there's no motor drive since

no torque force is being applied to the magnetic pedelec sensor by pedal effort.

 

It will glide gracefully to a standstill.

.

 

I interpreted the Kalkhoff diagram somewhere on 50-cycles web site wrongly, thinking that a reverse pedal effort was possible thus reversing the (direction)signal from the magnetic sensor and somehow imagining a breaking effect (via the controller) to the motor!

 

Thanks for the link to 50-Cycles website. I was having difficulty getting through on the telephone number that was provided, perhaps it is down to it being a bank holiday weekend? The website enquiry links seemed to work okay because I received lots of emails back from 50-Cycles though they were interpreted as spam by my email provider!

 

One email indicated that new bikes were in stock. Another informed me that 50-cycles have demonstration bikes in 50 locations throughout the country and gave a postcode search for the nearest demontrator so I could try one. A third informed me that I could become a demonstrator etc. I don't think they realise that I am a complete novice!

 

If 50-Cycles gave demonstrators priority on a new bikes etc etc.., they might get more demonstrators.

50cycles@Presteigne

 

Yes there was a Tasman, but not a PC-S

 

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ed6h5y0PLJI/Sgcg95Ot4DI/AAAAAAAAAMA/mTf6IoSjFgs/s800/S73F2861.JPG

 

This is me riding the PCS in the parade, I also rode it in the hillclimb and Tim rode it in the pedalling race at the go cart track

 

I interpreted the Kalkhoff diagram somewhere on 50-cycles web site wrongly, thinking that a reverse pedal effort was possible thus reversing the (direction)signal from the magnetic sensor and somehow imagining a breaking effect (via the controller) to the motor!

 

You were right in one sense that the rotation is being sensed whether going backwards or forwards, and on

many pedelec e-bikes back pedalling still enables the power. The Panasonic unit prevents that by sensing

torque pressure as the only condition allowing power, not rotation. That's why it's able to apply take off

power on the first pedal pressure at a standstill.

 

 

One email indicated that new bikes were in stock. Another informed me that 50-cycles have demonstration bikes in 50 locations throughout the country and gave a postcode search for the nearest demontrator so I could try one. A third informed me that I could become a demonstrator etc. I don't think they realise that I am a complete novice!

 

If 50-Cycles gave demonstrators priority on a new bikes etc etc.., they might get more demonstrators.

 

This demonstrator scheme is very new so they are advertising and promoting it as much as anything else,

hence your receiving all that. Years ago they ran a successful demonstrator scheme with another make

of e-bike. They are based on existing owners being the demonstrators with their own models and receiving

reward in return.

.

Edited May 23, 200916 yr by flecc

Hi Dynamic,

 

My name is Phil and I'm from OnBike.

 

Before you make up your mind, you may wish to also consider one of our new E-motion range of bikes?

 

They E-motions use the Panasonic 250w pedelec motor system with derailleur gears etc and may be of interest - feel free to have a look on OnBike - The Electric Bike Specialists and browse the E-motion range.

 

You would be more than welcome to come and try out the various models at either our Kidderminster branch or Presteigne branch.

 

Any questions, just pop me an e-mail phil@onbike.co.uk or drop me a line on 01299 25 15 14.

 

Best wishes

 

Phil

Director

OnBike Ltd

16 Spoke ? let's hope that isn't the start of another saga

16 Spoke ? let's hope that isn't the start of another saga

 

The Onbike site description is inaccurate in saying 16 spoke wheels, only the front wheel of the 16.5 kilo bike is

16 spoke, the rear 20 spoke, all of them high performance flat spokes. If the build quality is faultless they can

be ok.

 

Not something I personally like to see on an e-bike though, even one as light as this, still much heavier than

the unpowered sport bikes those wheels are designed for.

.

Hi Flecc,

 

Thanks for pointing that out Flecc - my mistake website has now been updated.

 

For a more robust style bike; perhaps the Cross or Cross Deluxe.

Maybe the City Deluxe for full mudgaurds, rack and integrated lights etc.

 

Cheers...

 

Phil

Director

OnBike Ltd

phil@onbike.co.uk

OnBike - The Electric Bike Specialists

Thanks for the update Phil.

 

Although I'm not too keen on minimally spoked wheels, I think it's a big benefit to have these sporty variants

on the Panasonic theme from BH in their E-motion range.

 

Choice is always good, and I applaud BH's enterprise and yours in introducing them here.

.

Edited May 23, 200916 yr by flecc

Thank you Flecc

OnBike's E-motion range

 

I love the idea of a proper road bike which is also an e-bike - my personal opinion is that the Panasonic type system is the only one really suited to this treatment. A throttle control would be especially difficult on 'drops'.

 

The only snag would be the 15mph limit on assistance, because most road bikes (allegedly) get ridden at a much higher average speed than that, and then the extra weight of the 'engine' and battery would be a significant disadvantage. If a derestricted Panasonic drive were fitted though.....

 

I don't think I've seen a 'production' e-bike of this type before. Knowing how snobbish some cyclists can be it would be interesting to see what reactions one might get from the die-hards! I could ask my pal in Warlingham who is definitely in that category - though I think I already know.

 

I hope they sell though - e-bikes should not all have to look like mountain bikes or Granny's shopper. I'll never get the chance to try one, so all this is just guesswork on my part. What's that top-of-the-range bike *really* like to ride?

 

Rog.

 

The only snag would be the 15mph limit on assistance, because most road bikes (allegedly) get ridden at a much higher average speed than that, and then the extra weight of the 'engine' and battery would be a significant disadvantage. If a derestricted Panasonic drive were fitted though.....

 

What's that top-of-the-range bike *really* like to ride?

 

Rog.

 

I don't think the 15 mph assist limit matters on a bike of this sort Rog, seeing that it weighs only 16.5 kilos.

It has things in common with the Cytronex, like that bike's 17 kilos and 15 mph assist limit. Both of them are

primarily for hill climb help with capable cyclists aboard, rather than all purpose machines.

 

Both the Panasonic unit and the Nano motor in the Cytronex have low enough resistance for pedalling above

the limit, and those low weights will be great help in that.

 

The striking thing could be the range potential of that BH. I showed how over 50 miles is attainable on the

26 kilo Agattu, so imagine what this E-motion Sport de Luxe could do with a keen rider much younger than me.

.

Edited May 24, 200916 yr by flecc

I don't think the 15 mph assist limit matters on a bike of this sort Rog, seeing that it weighs only 16.5 kilos.

It has things in common with the Cytronex, like that bike's 17 kilos and 15 mph assist limit. Both of them are

primarily for hill climb help with capable cyclists aboard, rather than all purpose machines.

 

Both the Panasonic unit and the Nano motor in the Cytronex have low enough resistance for pedalling above

the limit, and those low weights will be great help in that.

 

The striking thing could be the range potential of that BH. I showed how over 50 miles is attainable on the

26 kilo Agattu, so imagine what this E-motion Sport de Luxe could do with a keen rider much younger than me.

.

 

Good morning Tony

 

I'd sort of thought that, and was more inviting comment than anything. It did occur to me that the range would be potentially very good because other than for starts and for steep hills the motor wouldn't be doing anything at all. It's the Sport Deluxe I was specifically referring to of course.

 

You'd probably be doomed to solo riding though. I can't see any serious cycling club letting you get away with battery power. At best you'd be relegated to 'family runs' mixed in with mountain bikes and kids with stabilizers. I'd be interested to know from any of the serious Lycras who must lurk in here what they think.

 

Obviously you'd have a different mindset riding one of those than you would (say) a Wisper. To get it to 'go' you would need to get fit or be fit to begin with, and then maybe it would be rewarding. You can ride the Wisper on minimal assist, but I bet most owners do what I do, which is to put in a decent effort but use full throttle and off road mode almost all the time to get maximum speed and maximise the fun. Even doing that you get fitter though - I note that my averages are creeping up all the time, and that's without any pain.

 

Summing up, the biggest problem I would have with the Sport Deluxe would be the loss of street cred - there are always those who think that an e-bike is 'cheating' even though the logic is flawed. I suspect on one of those you'd need a really thick skin. If you overtook someone at 30mph they'd just say 'Yes, well, of course, with an electric motor helping you that thing is little more than a glorified moped' and they'd not be interested in hearing that the motor does nothing at all above 15 mph.

 

Rog.