October 10, 20241 yr I bought an Orbea Gain with the ebikemotion X35 system. I didn't consider at that time that I would need to replace the battery at some point. The batteries last for 10 years+, yes? No! 3 years on and the battery is kaput! I've seen recently on a forum that the life of an ebike battery is expected to be only 3 to 5 years. So I was unlucky mine only lasting 3 years but it seems I should not have been so shocked when it failed. However, a bigger shock was the price of a fitted replacement £800! I do not want to spend out £800 every 3 to 5 years. In fact, I do not want to spend that now and currently have what was a very expensive bike sitting in the garage going nowhere.
October 10, 20241 yr Replace it yourself ? Worst video I've ever seen for how to do something. There were no BB or forks in that frame. Do you have to remove them first? Every time I wanted to see something, the video cut and jumped forward to miss it.
October 10, 20241 yr Author Thanks for the suggestion. However, the retail price of the battery is still £650. With regards to fitting myself, I've seen those videos, they make it look so easy. You'll notice in the videos the chainset/axle and front fork have been removed. I don't have the tools to remove and replace the chainset and axle and I understand new cups will be required. The hydraulic brake cables and gear cables go through the stem/front fork steerer, I would be very nervous removing and replacing them. Also, I understand the battery has to be "programmed" to the motor which requires a registered/approved workshop anyway.
October 10, 20241 yr Small battery: compared to larger battery, will be spending more time at lower state of charge. Hub motor: compared to mid-drive will be spending more time under higher load. Not surprising that lifetime is lower.
October 10, 20241 yr Thanks for the suggestion. However, the retail price of the battery is still £650. With regards to fitting myself, I've seen those videos, they make it look so easy. You'll notice in the videos the chainset/axle and front fork have been removed. I don't have the tools to remove and replace the chainset and axle and I understand new cups will be required. The hydraulic brake cables and gear cables go through the stem/front fork steerer, I would be very nervous removing and replacing them. Also, I understand the battery has to be "programmed" to the motor which requires a registered/approved workshop anyway. Thanks for pointing all this out. It must be even worse for someone who bought the bike from an online seller and has no local dealer to do it. The battery is relatively small, so the cells get a much harder time than ones in a bigger battery, and therefore wouldn't last as long. Also, it looks like the battery unit contains the controller too, which would add to the expense. Overall, that battery replacement is a disaster area. I wouldn't recommend the Mahle X35 system to anyone unless they didn't care about the expense.
October 10, 20241 yr Cycling UK website tends to have more about the Mahle system as it appears to match the requirements of many Cycling UK members. I'm afraid my feeling from browsing that site is not positive. In particular, on batteries https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?p=1842805 At least the highly priced Bosch batteries give you a decent capacity and (usually) long life; and many are available discounted from the likes of Merlin.
October 10, 20241 yr Author The comments regarding the small battery are interesting. I always thought the Mahle X35 battery to be a decent size. 1; because I find the bike heavy, I was assuming partly due to the "large" battery, and 2; because most of my rides are about 30 miles and I only use 15 to 20% of the battery. I guess I am use to a small battery because I also have a converted hybrid bike with a Swytch kit fitted with a 5.2ah battery and again I have no problem with the range it provides. The Orbea feels heavier than the converted hybrid, although I haven't actually weighed them, which I thought was because of the larger battery. Incidentally, I have been very pleased with the Swytch kit, it is older than the Orbea, and have even thought about fitting the battery and sensor to the Orbea and connecting to the X35 wheel!
October 10, 20241 yr The comments regarding the small battery are interesting. I always thought the Mahle X35 battery to be a decent size. 1; because I find the bike heavy, I was assuming partly due to the "large" battery, and 2; because most of my rides are about 30 miles and I only use 15 to 20% of the battery. I guess I am use to a small battery because I also have a converted hybrid bike with a Swytch kit fitted with a 5.2ah battery and again I have no problem with the range it provides. The Orbea feels heavier than the converted hybrid, although I haven't actually weighed them, which I thought was because of the larger battery. Incidentally, I have been very pleased with the Swytch kit, it is older than the Orbea, and have even thought about fitting the battery and sensor to the Orbea and connecting to the X35 wheel! I would be very interested how the Orbea compares with the £699 16.5kg Woosh Faro (with 8Ah battery) . I know the Orbea has drop handlebars , but I was wondering how much hype there is around the X35. A replacement Woosh battery only costs £199. A new Faro costs less than the Orbea replacement battery !
October 10, 20241 yr 250Wh, half or less than most new bikes today. 30 miles on 15 to 20% of that suggests a woefully inaccurate system, such as a simple voltage measurement. Have you ridden it to empty to see maximum range? I don't know the system's innards, but if it is 'generic' there is a chance you could bin the battery and plumb in an externally mounted generic one instead.
October 10, 20241 yr In fact, I do not want to spend that now and currently have what was a very expensive bike sitting in the garage going nowhere. This is why we always recommend here to think and ask before buying. I stay away from from what western cycling industry has to offer. Learn your lesson and move forward.
October 10, 20241 yr The comments regarding the small battery are interesting. I always thought the Mahle X35 battery to be a decent size. 1; because I find the bike heavy, I was assuming partly due to the "large" battery, and 2; because most of my rides are about 30 miles and I only use 15 to 20% of the battery. I guess I am use to a small battery because I also have a converted hybrid bike with a Swytch kit fitted with a 5.2ah battery and again I have no problem with the range it provides. The Orbea feels heavier than the converted hybrid, although I haven't actually weighed them, which I thought was because of the larger battery. Incidentally, I have been very pleased with the Swytch kit, it is older than the Orbea, and have even thought about fitting the battery and sensor to the Orbea and connecting to the X35 wheel! You don't go by what things feel like. It's physics and there are equasions. In simple terms, your battery is 248wh. A typical Bosch battery is either 500wh or 600wh. Your one therefore has to give the same power from half as much battery, which means it has double the stress. QED.
October 10, 20241 yr It is not only about batteries. There is a whole system with inbuilt obsolescence designed specifically to drain money from customer. Hypocrisy and greed.
October 10, 20241 yr It is not only about batteries. There is a whole system with inbuilt obsolescence designed specifically to drain money from customer. Hypocrisy and greed. Once bitten twice shy, surely. Unfortunate to learn the hard way. I count myself "lucky" I came to this website 3 months before I bought anything and in that time I learnt a lot from the long term members here and those as unfortunate as the op.
October 10, 20241 yr Author Ok I see now, as advised above, the Mahle X35 battery capacity is 248wh, the Swytch is 187wh. I find these fine for my rides. I think on the x35 I set the assistance for level 1 at 30% (I usually stay in level 1 unless on a really steep hill), on the Swytch I usually only engage the motor on hills. I could get at least 3 rides out of the X35 without recharging and I get a couple out of the Swytch. I am firstly a cyclist and now I am over 70, I like the motor assistance to stop me running out of puff on hills.
October 10, 20241 yr Battery life depends on how they are specced to cope with the controller max discharge rating and the cells used. I have a pair of Woosh Dolphin cased Sam 29E's both coming up to 10 years old and both still work well drawing approx. 4 - 5 a, they are no longer used in EAPC use but provide good power for other projects I use them for.
October 10, 20241 yr I think it would be more helpful if you shared what you wrote in first post with your friends and family. Here it is a common knowledge.
October 10, 20241 yr Ok I see now, as advised above, the Mahle X35 battery capacity is 248wh, the Swytch is 187wh. I find these fine for my rides. I think on the x35 I set the assistance for level 1 at 30% (I usually stay in level 1 unless on a really steep hill), on the Swytch I usually only engage the motor on hills. I could get at least 3 rides out of the X35 without recharging and I get a couple out of the Swytch. I am firstly a cyclist and now I am over 70, I like the motor assistance to stop me running out of puff on hills. You didn't by any chance try to "prolong your battery life" by not fully charging it did you?
October 10, 20241 yr Author I think it would be more helpful if you shared what you wrote in first post with your friends and family. Here it is a common knowledge. Sorry everyone. I'm new to the forum and it seems I posted inappropriately :-(
October 10, 20241 yr Sorry everyone. I'm new to the forum and it seems I posted inappropriately :-( Oh no... that is not what I meant. There are many like you who might make the same mistake. You have learned your lesson hard and might reach those who we can't. Many people buy bikes only to find later they can't buy a spare battery later on, or it costs a fortune. Individual can't buy Bosch motor to replace broken one. Authorized mechanic must apply to Bosch for replacement. Apply! This is ridiculous. Edited October 10, 20241 yr by Az.
October 10, 20241 yr can bus = tip a 20ah batt from a uk supplier is around 400 quid a bosch 12ah batt is 650 quid. all electric cars use can bus coms to talk to all the parts if one fails like the wing mirror with a cam in it gets snapped of even if you buy a direct replacement it wont work unless you pair that part to the computer like i phones. my bike is 10 years old and can keep it going for now but if you offered me a new bosch 10k bike for it id keep it.
October 10, 20241 yr Sorry everyone. I'm new to the forum and it seems I posted inappropriately :-( You haven't done anything wrong. The problem is that it is what it is. We can't change it. You have to decide what to do. Nothing you decide to do will be comfortable. We have a lot of discussion about these sort of things on this forum. Basically, we can't help with anything that has CANbus, and it's also difficult on other bikes if the electronics use any sort of comms. Unfortunately, nearly all the expensive bikes use such systems. We're all locked out of them. We try to advise people if they haven't already bought a bike. The cheap Chinese stuff works OK, and you can normally get what you want, as long as you're not buying to impress your friends at the cycle club, though choices are declining all the time. If you want to buy an expensive bike, it's going to be expensive to run. That's it!
October 11, 20241 yr Sadly many see a nice bike or are partly brained washed by reviews (very biased) , dealers (also biased) and online influencers who promote expensive looking EAPC's with mid drive or even hub drives which have no need for fancy locked in electrics Unfortunately those not in the know or know very little about EAPC's can easily be swayed by all of the above, what all of the above don't throw into the conversations is that all of the EAPC's promoted are non user freindly when it comes to repairs and spares are very expensive. The expensive spares if needed occurs after the two year warranty runs out and one is left with an expensive garden ornament thats doesn't work. Most mid drives have to be exchanged via a dealer or repaired (if poss )by a trained specalist. Batteries have to come via said dealer as no locked in system is universal. Displays or controllers are the same. One reason why those of us in the know use generic hub drives and batteries with a chosen controller type of known reliability that can be sourced almost anywhere on the open market , all needing no specialist dealer to buy from or needing to exchange thru a franchise. These simple electronics can simply be swapped between nearly any bike /brand with generic electric components parts.
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