Hello ! Congratulations on your purchase, I for one can't wait to hear your feedback, and see detailed photos !

 

How is 80 GBP broken-down ? (custom duty, import VAT, and postal charges)

Here's the info I found about purchasing from abroad:

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/4821-watts-up-vs-turnigy-power-meter-analyser-2.html?highlight=duties

 

Thank you !

Regards, Dan

Jerry.....I think that you are more excited than Caroline, and if my current experiences of my EWC Nano are anything to go by...totally justified

 

my only criticism would be that the battery (36v..10a/h), is too big, and too heavy to carry around after parking the bike (Arbus Granit D lock)

I suppose that the thumb twist 'throttle' is a bit insensitive, and tends to be all or nothing, but as "all" is generally called for, not too much of a problem..

I hadnt considered that a rapid take off from the front of the traffic light queue would be so agreeable, and add so much to feeling of 'control' of the London traffic situation, but it does....just one or 2 hard pedal pushes, and then full power, and 14/15 mph is almost instant...

AND its totally silent, which I think adds to the quality feeling....plus no resistance to normal pedal power, in fact some times I think that I am using power, and in fact I am not....

so Caroline is in for a treat, although I feel that the saliva is gathering more in your mouth than hers', Jerry!

 

all the best to you Both barryc

I suppose that the thumb twist 'throttle' is a bit insensitive, and tends to be all or nothing, but as "all" is generally called for, not too much of a problem..

 

That's interesting. Although I tend to use the pedelec/Pedal Assist Sensor most of the time, I sometimes use the thumb throttle to take off from a standstill, or when I want to finely-control the motor's rotation speed. My throttle is very precise indeed, I can easily modulate the power for when I (or someone else) walk next to the bike, for example.

Jerry.....I think that you are more excited than Caroline, and if my current experiences of my EWC Nano are anything to go by...totally justified

 

so Caroline is in for a treat, although I feel that the saliva is gathering more in your mouth than hers', Jerry!

 

all the best to you Both barryc

 

Lol.

 

I really don't want a large battery. I am convinced that the Freedom E solution with 1 battery pack will be ok if I have a charger at work.

 

That said I am still not 100% certain as the other option is to go for a locally provided Bafang 24v with wider forks and a couple of 12v 4.3Ah NiMh power packs.

 

I hope to make a decision after I see Caroline's posts.

 

Regards

 

Jerry

I wonder if she picked it up today

 

Regards

 

Jerry

Comments

 

Let me add a bit to this.

 

First, the duty on import. This is something that you will need to factor in, when looking at Freedom's prices. You will pay:

Duty on the price.

VAT on the _total_ (price+duty).

Probably a "custom's clearance fee" on the lot.

Allow +20 to 25% and you will not be far out...

 

Other's have warned about the 'downside' of doing things like marking down.....

 

However, if shipping the bike to Israel, for modification, if done correctly, the taxes will only be payable on the 'added value', not the original bicycle.

Basically, if a product which has had it's taxes paid locally, is exported, and then bought back, you don't pay taxes on it coming back. Just as if you take a camera or something similar 'with you', when going for a flight to America and back. However just as with this, if the value is reasonable, it is worth getting it certified that you have taken the item out of the original country. The same applies for the bike. There is a standard form, on which you can record the original export. This then serves as 'proof' that the product was exported, allowing you not to pay taxes when this returns. If you use the same shipper in both directions, many can now do this automatically for you.

So for future people considering this route, it might well be worth talking to somebody like UPS, and arranging for them both to export the bike, and re-import it. Export as 'xxx bicycle', with a sensible value, and re-import as xxx bicyle with electric conversion added , with values both for the bicycle and the conversion, the former matching the export value. Done properly, you only then pay the taxes on the improvement.

The form is C1055, and though it is several pages long, there are only a few boxes that need to be done. A search online will find it.

 

As a 'comment' on the Freedom conversion, and the people themselves, I second Daniel's comment about how 'good' they are to talk to, and they seem to be a lot more efficient at dealing with orders than some UK bike shops. The conversion itself, is rather basic, in particular I don't like the large seven pin plug they use for all the connection - it tends to come apart in use, and is far too large for comfort, nearly doubling the weight/size of the control box assembly!. As with Nano, they have taken the 'simple' route, and not replaced the connections into the controller, but instead, done a 'cut and paste' job on the wiring outside the controller, into this plug. However, the 'price is right', and for many users wanting a small amount of assist, the lightweight batteries ay well be very acceptable.

 

Best Wishes

Roger,

 

Very helpfull post. Do you have one of these kits ?

 

Have to admit I am on the verge of ordering this kit but would like to know a little more about this "large" connection block ?

 

I may in future want the ability to add my own battery if for example I want to go on a longer journey... something like the ping battery. The battery and controller all seems interconnected and now I understand why given your explanation of the single block connection.

 

Adding 20-25% to the price makes it quite expensive. But that said trying to source all the parts yourself including wheel build and batteries there is then not much in it.

 

The attraction of plug and play is what is leading me to just go ahead and order the kit.

 

I have searched everywhere and have not found anyone who has purchased or done a review on the kit, which is why I am keeping a close eye on this thread.

 

Regards

 

Jerry

Edited November 8, 200916 yr by jerrysimon

Roger - thanks. Agree with Jerry (hi Jerry, by the way!) - a very helpful post. Jerry, when do start playing with your Brompton?

Afternoon Andy

 

Brompton is being sent to me on or around 15/11/09. I might even go and collect it as its only about 1hr 40 mins away. As I said to Caroline I suffer from impatience too

 

Just waiting for the cycle to work scheme to pay them.

 

Regards

 

Jerry

Edited November 8, 200916 yr by jerrysimon

Very frustrating! In consolation, I'd say the wait will be worth it. You can't go wrong with a Brompton. It does its job very well and is fun to ride. Can't ask more really, which is why it tends to have fanatical owners!

Yer.. in the meantime I am still enjoying my Cytronex. The ebike journey from Alien kit to here has been fun

 

Regards

 

Jerry

Edited November 8, 200916 yr by jerrysimon

in my sticky hands!

 

Ok, so of course I went and picked it up on Saturday

Just took it for its first test spin this morning and very pleased indeed with it. Have to bear in mind that i have never previously used an electric bike so I don't have anything to compare the performance with.

 

1) First impression: everything packed well and intact on arrival. The breakdown of the costs were: £10.93 import duty; £56.30 VAT; Parcelforce Clearance fee £80.73.

 

2) Next stop: unfolding the bike. Got rather stuck at this stage as I couldn't get the hook off the tubing to unfold the front handlebar assembly bit. However, in the end my husband managed to do it. I've since got the knack, I think, but am curious about how much easier this would be on a non-modified Brompton, as it is noticeable that the widened forks, plus the wiring protruding from the motor hub (and rubber casing put on to protect this vital part) seem to impede the hook somewhat. I've taken some photos to illustrate.

 

As I am not familiar with Bromptons in general it is hard for me to gauge how much of a problem the modification is causing. Having folded and unfolded it a number of times this morning, I think I have got the knack of swinging the wheel in at the correct angle to clear the wiring etc, and get the hook in place: however it seems to me that the rubber casing protecting the wiring is squeaking past the tube and taking a bit of a squeeze in the process. I am going to be keeping a beady eye on this as it seems a bit vulnerable to wear and tear during the folding process. However, once folded it doesn't seem as though any weight is actually resting on the wiring; neither is the weight resting on the hook though, which surprised me. Not sure if it usually does?

 

3) Weight. I bought the M2L model to minimise weight, and on the bathroom scales (!) the whole bike with the motor comes in at between 12.5 and 13 kgs, which is what I was expecting. (i.e. about 2.2kg for the motor, plus 10.8 for the bike). Fantastic!! I can easily see myself lifting the bike up and down the flight of stairs at our station. The battery, controller, frame and bag altogether come in at about 2 kilos. (it says 2.475 kg on my kitchen scales but they are probably about as accurate as the bathroom ones, i.e. not very).

 

4) Ease of use: well, there is no on switch, which means that as long as the battery is connected (see photos), the bike is 'on'. It is easy enough to connect and disconnect the throttle, though. The connection is chunky which reassures me, and is not stiff to push in and out (nor too loose). Slightly alarmingly the battery connectors sent out sparks when I connected the battery pack to the controller. I didn't get any shocks though as everything is fully insulated as you would expect, it was just a bit unexpected! The battery and controller fit easily in the back pocket of the bag, as advertised. It's a bit of a jumble of wires and things but hopefully will be protected in that position. The only downside is that it is necessary to open the pocket in order to unplug the throttle, but it really doesn't take long. The throttle seems pretty responsive, though I can report more once I've used it more.

 

5) Battery: the battery looks very homemade. But it weighs less than a kilo as advertised, and I will report over the next few weeks on how long it lasts. It has been taped up neatly and looks solid. It is guaranteed for 2 years in any case (nearly: see the website for that info). I took it to town and back this morning and I live up a very steep hill. It gave good assistance for several prolonged stretches. There are led light indicators on the throttle but I'm not sure what they are indicating exactly. I've sent an email to Andrew and I'm sure he will enlighten me.

 

I've also asked him how to connect the batteries in parallel if I want to - it's not obvious.

 

6) Power: as said above, I used the motor to go up all the hills. I don't know exactly what the gradients are but they are basically uncycleable usually for all but the most hardcore cyclists with millions of low gears! I basically have not cycled since the first year of moving to Hastings because all the hills make the experience unpleasant and essentially pointless! But with the motor, i went on pedalling in the lower gear, and the motor took me up the hill. I did have to pedal quite hard up the steepest bits, but didn't break a sweat.

 

That's all for now. Let me know if you have any specific questions.

 

Here are the photos:

 

Ok, actually it turns out that my files are too big. My husband is getting grumpy because he wants to go and watch the football (!) so I'll have to resize the photos and post them up later. Sorry!

 

Bye,

Caroline:)

Ok, actually it turns out that my files are too big. My husband is getting grumpy because he wants to go and watch the football (!) so I'll have to resize the photos and post them up later. Sorry!

 

Ah the suspense...................

 

Caroline,

 

Thank you so much for taking the time for posting an update. I was pretty sure you would pick it up yesterday

 

Glad it all arrived safely. The wieght is good. I agonised for ages over 3 speed hub or 2 speed as you say to keep the wieght down. In the end I went for the extra 800grms of the 3 speed enclosed hub, so mine will be 11.5kg before the kit fit.

 

Re import charges was that £80.73 in total or £147.96 ? What was the declared value for the whole package assuming they just declared the kit value ?

 

If you want I am happy for you to email the pictures to me and I will load them on my web space and post them in the thread so they appear as actual pictures rather than links. Hosting them yourself enables you to post them at a larger size and not be restricted by the forum limits.

 

Just an offer but also as you guessed because I can't wait to see them

 

I can post some comments about folding when I see the pics. I burrowed a Brompter for a week or so plus others with Bromptons can also comment. Also for connecting the batteries in parallel there must be a special lead(s) or something. I am familiar with model aeroplane lithium batteries and use to do that a lot. Reading your earlier post it seems like you ordered three packs in total ?

 

This big connector sounds interesting. Re the batteries I think most A123 packs I have seen are DIY efforts, though I would hope these have been done professionally i.e. spot welded and not just soldered up and taped together. I would also like to see the charger if possible, to see if they are being balanced when charged. I think they are, as there have what look like charging taps on the battery.

 

Anyway if you want to email the pics to me its jerrysimonsimon@hotmail.com

 

Sorry if I sound over keen and excited but I am very tempted to buy this kit.

 

Regards

 

Jerry

Edited November 8, 200916 yr by jerrysimon

freedom kit

 

Hi Jerry,

Sorry, my mistake: it should have read: Parcelforce Clearance Fee: £13.50. The total was £80.73. The declared value was £306. As the other chap said, this wasn't far off honest, given that the bike originated in the UK. I also read up the customs blurb and passed on the info to Freedom bikes that if they want to supply fully kitted bikes to the UK, they should do the paperwork with the buyer to ensure that they can get Outward Processing Relief on the value of the bike when re-importing to the UK. Anyway, I'm happy that I got away with it, and the 80 quid seemed ok once I'd looked 270 quid in the eye (i.e. what i would have paid if the full cost had been declared!). All told, with the customs fees, the full kit has cost me about £100 more than the equivalent from the Electric Wheel Company. I think I still would have gone with it though from the point of view of more flexibility in the weight that I carry. I stay up in London for three days of the week and carry all my clothes, files, books etc with me so the idea of an additional 4-5kilos of battery was totally offputting! One kilo plus a light charger I can cope with.

 

Andrew is going to post me the connectors for putting the batteries in parallel: he said he was out of stock of them when he shipped the bike to me. Perhaps they are easy to get in the UK but I might as well let him ship them as I think I'm 'owed' them from him. Yes, I got three batteries in total. I figured that if hubby gets a nano conversion on his full size bike from the EWC then it would be good if we can be matched roughly for battery power if we want to take longer trips out together. Also I want to get a trailer and be able to tow larger loads up the hills of Hastings, for which I think I'll need the three packs really if I want any distance as well.

 

I'm going to put links in for the photos here but if you want I'll email you the full size pics as well. Let me know. I haven't taken one of the charger yet but I'll do that too. Not sure what you said about 'balancing the batteries'? Not sure what that means.

 

Best wishes,

Caroline

photos

 

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/4831/ebike002.jpg

 

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/9509/ebike006.th.jpg

 

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/1826/ebike008.th.jpg

Hi Caroline.

 

Thanks for taking the trouble to describe this - it's very useful and much appreciated.

 

I am sure that you've got a good bike. A few quick observations.

 

Yes, the closeness of the wiring to the hook will need to be watched. Perhaps you could post a photo of the folded bike with a close up of the hook and the motor wiring in case anyone has some ingenious suggestions?

 

That big black connector looks like something out of a nuclear submarine parts bin! But is at least it should be reliable...

 

The battery looks small and light - just right!

 

Keep us posted and thanks again

 

Andy

more photos

 

Above shows the hub with the wiring coming out near the hook. Then the chunky 7 point pin (I like it but hope it doesn't fall apart as suggested?!)

Then the battery with the controller stuck on the bottom with velcro (very hi tech!), with a phone for size comparison.

 

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/1558/ebike005.jpg

 

The throttle

 

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/2359/ebike010.jpg

 

View into the back pocket of the touring pannier, with the battery etc. inside and the plugged in controller on the right. Sorry I know it's not clear to see what's what really.

 

http://img440.imageshack.us/img440/2184/ebike019.jpg

 

This is an attempt to show the hook with the wiring from the hub coming up behind it, when the bike is folded. I didn't have as much trouble with this on the latest fold attempt and am assured that it will wear ok, but will still keep an eye on it!

 

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/6775/ebike004.jpg

 

wiring secured with cable ties.

 

Picture of the charger to follow. Just finished charging at 1hr 40 mins!

Excellent just looking at them now. Thanks for posting.

 

The throttle looks ok can't quite see the battery and controller with the big block connector.

 

A pic of the charger would be great thanks. If you could also take a pic of the motor in the wheel as well please if you get a moment.

 

Great stuff thanks again

 

Jerry

Edited November 8, 200916 yr by jerrysimon

Not sure what you said about 'balancing the batteries'? Not sure what that means.

 

Oops in my excitement I never saw your post on the last page. Excellent pics so I don't need the larger ones thanks.

 

Re the above. When charging cells like these you need to make sure that they are "balanced" at the end of the charge. This basically means they should all be at the same voltage. If you charge the whole pack together without monitoring each cell then some may be charged more or even over charged and some may be charged less. You can ensure that each cell is charged to its maximum (and no more or it will damage them) individually, using tabs which lead to each each cell. This method is more common in ther Model RC world where they use these batteries and lipo cells. The Alternative is to use a Battery Management System (BMS) circuit which is attached to the battery pack itself. This is more common in the ebike world. With ebikes the charger then has little intelligence (and is thus cheaper) whereas in the Model RC world all the intelligence is in the charger which is then usually more expensive.

 

That's why I am interested in seeing a picture of the charger. I suspect it has a small balancer socket on it into which the plug from the little tabs shown on your battery pack, then plugs into.

 

Regards

 

Jerry

Edited November 8, 200916 yr by jerrysimon

Slightly alarmingly the battery connectors sent out sparks when I connected the battery pack to the controller. I didn't get any shocks though as everything is fully insulated as you would expect, it was just a bit unexpected!

 

Just read this. Should be ok though I can understand you being surprised

 

That battery connector is known as deans connector (again used in the RC model world) they cope with high current draw and each of the two male pins is at a different orientation to make sure you can't plug them in the wrong way into the female plug. My RC flight packs often spark when I plug them in. Again this is not a usual plug used in the ebike world for connecting up battery packs.

 

Regards

 

Jerry

Edited November 8, 200916 yr by jerrysimon

have you any photos of the bike? the suspense is killing me!

I'm glad to see a non-radial spokes layout, cross-1 instead ! Well done to Andrew for rectifying this. There's only a minor inconsistency / mistake in the spoke lacing: the trailing spokes should be on the inside of the hub flange, on both sides of the hub (not just on the right hand side, as it is now). Good quality rims too, with brass eyelets.

 

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/4831/ebike002.jpg

Words of advice: check the front wheel spoke tension from time to time, especially the first few miles you ride the bike. just "ping" with your finger tip and you should hear the same sound / pitch all around. Otherwise you need to adjust the tension, it is very important on small wheels, especially with a large hub and the added motor torque.

 

Also, I would recommend to verify that the axle nuts are tight. They hold the standard torque/lock washer in, and as you can see on this photo the little "nipple" is not fully engaged above the nut. Nothing to worry about per say, but better safe than sorry (any fork failure will result in pain):

 

http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/927/ebike001.jpg

Also, I would recommend to verify that the axle nuts are tight. They hold the standard torque/lock washer in, and as you can see on this photo the little "nipple" is not fully engaged above the nut. Nothing to worry about per say, but better safe than sorry (any fork failure will result in pain):

 

Man you have a keen eye Dan

 

I never noticed that. Also interesting comment about the wheel build.

 

I hope Caroline gets time to post a pic of the charger. I want to check that those cells are being balanced.

 

Regards

 

Jerry

Edited November 9, 200916 yr by jerrysimon

Also interesting comment about the wheel build.

 

Well, another remark is that some spokes normally "rub" each other (in pairs in this case, due to the cross-1 lacing patter). This is the "lacing" part, actually. To achieve that, you need to position the trailing spoke (which is on the inside of the hub flange) "behind" the corresponding leading spoke (outside of the flange). This gives the wheel extra strength as a selected set of spokes are in intimate contact, and contribute to each other's tension, in a way. By the way, with any cross pattern, this should be the case *only* for the last "outermost" trailing spoke that a leading spoke crosses. As we are with a 1-cross pattern, a trailing spoke only has one choice of leading spoke to lace with Now, with our 1-cross pattern on very short spokes, this would mean twisting the spokes quite a bit, and in my case it compromised how the nipple "sits" in its eyelet-hole. So just like Freedom E-Bikes, I dropped this rule and my spokes don't rub each other (LOL, this phrase sounds like it could mean something else )

 

Seewatamean?