Dan, so puting this simply are you saying that what they did was ok ?

 

Regards

 

Jerry

Dan, so puting this simply are you saying that what they did was ok ?

 

I don't have a long experience of wheel-building, but I do have an opinion, so here it is: I think that it's ok not to lace the short spokes in a 1-cross pattern, as it indeed compromises the seating of the nipple through the eyelet rim hole and its reliable threading onto the spoke, due to how tight the application on a 16"-wheel is.

 

The Sparticle wheel seems to be built with this rule as well (see photo below). Interestingly, note that their trailing spokes do not run on the inside of the hub flange, but at least the lacing is consistent on the other side (that would be my main critic of the way the Freedom E-Bike wheel is laced...maybe it's just a one-off "mistake").

 

I can't comment on the spokes tension, which is probably the next most important thing. My wheel stabilized after a few miles, so again I would encourage to check regularly. Wheel failures usually occur because of poor tensioning and the resulting stress in selected spokes.

 

http://www.electricbikesales.co.uk/shop/images/uploads/Kit%20pics/Sparticle%20Motor%20connector%2009.jpg

feedback

 

Thanks everyone who has posted useful info for me to bear in mind with my new purchase. I shall certainly be keeping an eye on the spoke tension and the axle nuts. I made a special request for the cross-pattern on the wheel after reading comments about the weakness of the radial pattern (so thanks for flagging that up!). Don't know if he usually does that but he said on email that he could 'do either'.

 

Re: the charger, sorry no photo yet and no time tonight but I don't think that the cells are being balanced as the charger plugs into the same bit that the controller plugs into when connecting to the battery. I.e. the extra coloured wires with little white bits on the end are maybe how the cells are connected together but the charger does not interface with these.

 

That said, Andrew H. of Freedom ebikes maintains that he has been using these batteries with this charger for well over a year regularly with good performance. But perhaps he will take your comments into account for future reference - I've got a feeling he's keeping an eye on this thread.

 

I'll try to put a photo of the charger in on Friday if that's ok - I'm going to be up in London as of tomorrow morning and using the new steed for three days - back Thurs pm.

 

One last point re: ease of use. It turns out that the battery needs to be disconnected from both the controller and the throttle when not in use. Disconnecting from the throttle obviously 'turns off' the motor, but the controller continues to drain the battery when left connected, even when the motor is not connected. I didn't realise that, giving me a bit of a shock today when I took the bike for a spin with a supposedly full battery, only to find that I didn't get a nice green LED shining when I connected up the motor. Fortunately worked out what might have been happening, which Andrew confirmed. Communications post-delivery continues to be very good, by the way. I think the poor chap will be glad to see the back of me quite honestly cos I've been bombarding him with emails for the last month since I first started thinking about buying this machine. However, I think it is only reasonable seeing as I have entrusted him with near to 1 and a half grand of my hard -earned! Anyway, to get to the point: it is not the easiest thing in the world to connect and disconnect the controller as it is a little socket thingy which makes sparks and I'm hoping all the rubber insulation is going to stay in place over time! Although it is reassuring to hear that that is 'normal'. Perhaps I will become adept at it with practice but it is not the most user-friendly. On the up-side, even though the battery was not very full when I set off the pull up hills continues to be very good.

 

BW

Caroline

Anyway, to get to the point: it is not the easiest thing in the world to connect and disconnect the controller as it is a little socket thingy which makes sparks and I'm hoping all the rubber insulation is going to stay in place over time!

 

Thanks for the update Caroline. No problem about the charger pic I know how work gets.

 

The Deans Conectors can be tough to connect and disconnect. On the ones I use for RC Models sometimes just a "tiny" bit of grease on the metal pins can help. Just a little smear then wipe it off your finger. I find this makes it much easier. Usually its parting them that is hardest but it will also help them connect more easily and quicker and will keep the sparking down in that they will go in first attempt quickly.

 

The whole balancing thing is interesting. Perhaps I should email Andrew. I am pretty certain these cells need to be balanced during charging. That said his guarantee should cover you if there are any problems.

 

Regards

 

Jerry

Edited November 9, 200916 yr by jerrysimon

The plug....

 

Caroline has posted a picture of half the connector.

It is like a Bulgin connector, with seven pins. Measures about 34mm*40mm*120mm when together. Weighs well over 100 grams. No clips, and not very tight. For my brother, after only a couple of days, it started falling apart over every rut in the road....

Now, I don't like using the connector as the switch. Generally plug contacts are not designed as switches.

My 'rewire', used a 3 pin Canon IP67 plug for the three motor connections (the only ones carrying any power), and a miniature push button locked connector for the handlebar assembly (MTA type). The controller has a 'kill' input (two pins on the controller marked 'BK1' and 'BK2' - designed as 'brake' inputs - short either to ground, and the system stops). I added a tiny 'kill' button to the handlebar assembly - I'd hate to be riding the standard unit, and find the throttle had stuck..... The connections to the handlebar assembly, are normally four wires - 0v, 5v, hall signal, and battery votage - for the LED indicator. Mine adds one extra 'kill' wire. Then the power connection, retained the standard Deans plugs, but I added a three way 'centre off' switch, to give battery1, off, battery2. This way, you can switch off here completely, and avoid sparks....

I'd rate the wiring design, as the 'worst bit' of this system.

 

Best Wishes

Torque washer up-side-down

 

 

Also, I would recommend to verify that the axle nuts are tight. They hold the standard torque/lock washer in, and as you can see on this photo the little "nipple" is not fully engaged above the nut. Nothing to worry about per say, but better safe than sorry (any fork failure will result in pain):

 

 

The torque washer is actually installed up-side-down. The nipple should be at the bottom, protruding into the bottom of the drop-out.

John,

 

On the Brompton fork there is a lug hole that the nipple goes in which effectively holds the torque washer up into the fork dropout.

 

The washer is then shaped to prevent the motor shaft from dropping out or spinning in the fork dropouts.

 

You can see it in this picture from another post that Dan did a while back.

 

http://daniel.weck.free.fr/BromptonBafangTongxin/IMG_3899.jpg

 

Regards

 

Jerry

Edited November 10, 200916 yr by jerrysimon

Jerry is absolutely right, but for the sake of completeness: John's remark applies correctly to the Bafang torque washer (which is the motor I am currently using). Cheers, Dan

Sorry Dan I thought he was referring to your comments about Caroline's Tongxin fitted in her Brompton forks.

 

Regards

 

Jerry

If it locates in a hole then that is fine. It didn't appear to be in Caroline's bike and I didn't know there was a hole there on the Brompton. As has been said, it helps to stop the axle from "spinning out" which is not a pleasant matter.

Sorry Dan I thought he was referring to your comments about Caroline's Tongxin fitted in her Brompton forks.

 

You were perfectly right, I wasn't trying to correct you I just wanted to make sure that future readers realize that not all motors have the same mounting mechanism. The Bafang is certainly "special" with its fat/robust torque locking washers. Cheers, Dan

I just wanted to make sure that future readers realize that not all motors have the same mounting mechanism.

 

NP Dan. I read your post again and I now see that is what you were trying to do. Its so easy to misread posts :o

 

Regards

 

Jerry

spoke tension and axle nuts

 

John,

 

On the Brompton fork there is a lug hole that the nipple goes in which effectively holds the torque washer up into the fork dropout.

 

The washer is then shaped to prevent the motor shaft from dropping out or spinning in the fork dropouts.

 

You can see it in this picture from another post that Dan did a while back.

 

http://daniel.weck.free.fr/BromptonBafangTongxin/IMG_3899.jpg

 

Regards

 

Jerry

 

hi Jerry, thanks that is useful . I've just had a peer at mine and can see what you mean - the 'nipple' (there seem to be an awful lot of these?! ooer etc. ) is not fully into the little hole in the fork. Looks a bit tricky to tighten up the nut too, because of the casing to protect the wiring. Feeling a bit concerned about it now!

 

Also, I've had a 'ping' of the spokes and there are a couple that give more of a plunk than a ping. One of them is visibly slightly bent. How worried should I be about these? I.e. can I continue riding for the next couple of days til I get home and can go to the bike shop on Friday, or should I get this sorted out immediately/stop riding the bike til they are adjusted? I have probably done a few miles now.

 

The irony is that I've realised I don't need the motor at all in London really - my legs are quite capable in South London where it is largely flat. The motor is absolutely brilliant in Hastings though where it is nonstop hills. In retrospect could have got a nano motor for my full size old bike for Hastings, and just got a second hand brommy for commuting.... och well too late now:p Anyway who knows where I might need to commute in the future...

 

Re: the connector - so far it has remained connected over bumps. Except for this morning on the first test run. But to be fair I don't think I connected it properly in the first place with my thick gloves on. I'm sure that Roger's comments are relevant - shame I don't have the know-how to do any modification of the wiring myself, will just have to manage with the basic set up.

 

Any other maintenance tips gratefully received.

Caroline

the 'nipple' (there seem to be an awful lot of these?! ooer etc. ) is not fully into the little hole in the fork.

 

That's fine.

 

Looks a bit tricky to tighten up the nut too, because of the casing to protect the wiring. Feeling a bit concerned about it now!

 

Simply pull the rubber protector out, and use a regular spanner. Just make sure not to damage the cable.

 

Also, I've had a 'ping' of the spokes and there are a couple that give more of a plunk than a ping.

 

Yeah, these need tightening. Just a 1/4 or 1/2 turn to start with, gradually moving around the circumference of the wheel and checking both sides until the "ping" stabilizes uniformly.

 

Otherwise the Local Bike Shop is possible solution.

 

One of them is visibly slightly bent. How worried should I be about these?

 

It's probably nothing bad. You can bend it back so that it better lines-up, but it probably needs tightening too. Don't overtighten though ! Leave it as it is if it "pings" enough already.

 

I.e. can I continue riding for the next couple of days til I get home and can go to the bike shop on Friday, or should I get this sorted out immediately/stop riding the bike til they are adjusted? I have probably done a few miles now.

 

The worst that can happen is a snapped spoke...nothing to super-worry about. It would be a shame (requiring removing tyre and tube + swap spoke + recalibrate), but you wouldn't face a fatal accident

 

Any other maintenance tips gratefully received.

 

Clean your Brompton regularly ! It tends to get filthy quickly and it's a shame on a lovely new bike.

 

Dan

 

Clean your Brompton regularly ! It tends to get filthy quickly and it's a shame on a lovely new bike.

 

Dan

 

I bet that if you give Jerry the wink he'll be only too happy to come and wash your bike just watch he doesn't take any inappropriate images of it whilst your back is turned Only joking Jerry

I bet that if you give Jerry the wink he'll be only too happy to come and wash your bike just watch he doesn't take any inappropriate images of it whilst your back is turned Only joking Jerry

 

I'm terrible at cleaning my bike...it's in a filthy state. I really need to work on that chain and sprockets (sand and grease don't play well with running gear).

I bet that if you give Jerry the wink he'll be only too happy to come and wash your bike just watch he doesn't take any inappropriate images of it whilst your back is turned Only joking Jerry

 

Lol Artstu

 

Its easy all you need is this :

 

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jerrysimon/ebike/cytronex/degrease.jpg

 

And in about an hour you get it to look like this :

 

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jerrysimon/ebike/cytronex/crankinstand.jpg

 

 

 

Regards

 

Jerry

Edited November 13, 200916 yr by jerrysimon

BTW Caroline if you do get time to post a pic of the charger then that would be great.

 

Regards

 

Jerry

will do

 

Hi Jerry,

Sorry for delay - will do. Have had the bike a week now. The rubber protector on the nut by the motor hub is already coming away. But I figure I can probably sort that out with some duct tape! I've been getting more into the motor now that I feel more confident that the battery will last me my journeys: i.e. using it to get up to speed from traffic lights etc, or where there is a bit of headwind. Slightly disturbing 'kronk' noise when putting the throttle full on from a near standstill, but not sure where this is coming from (hub? brakes?). doesn't happen when turning the throttle when already at speed. Best thing so far is that the battery easily lasts any of my journeys so far and the charger is very light. When the battery is only partially run down it gets up to full again pretty quickly (often 15-40mins in the last week). Downside as mentioned before is the fiddly process of disconnecting the battery from controller and controller from throttle every time. On balance not convinced the hassle is worth it over a 'normal' bike in london. but it really comes into its own in hilly areas. I guess that's par for the course though with any electric bike.

Roger (I think it was?): I'd be interested what your brother's experience was with his kit. I know you mentioned that the 7 point pin started coming apart over bumps (not yet happened to me) but what other experiences did he have - if you've the time to post.

 

Best wishes,

Caroline

Slightly disturbing 'kronk' noise when putting the throttle full on from a near standstill, but not sure where this is coming from (hub? brakes?). doesn't happen when turning the throttle when already at speed.

 

It's normal with that motor, Caroline. The controller has to work out how to get the motor going the right way and sometimes it starts to spin it backwards first. The noise comes from the free-wheel in the motor before it has engaged. Best not to start from a dead stop on a hill if you can help it.

Hi Jerry,

Sorry for delay - will do. Have had the bike a week now.....

 

Slightly disturbing 'kronk' noise when putting the throttle full on from a near standstill, but not sure where this is coming from (hub? brakes?). doesn't happen when turning the throttle when already at speed....

 

 

Thanks Carolione I would appreciate sight of the charger.

 

I would not advise using the Tongxin motor from a standing start. Although it will work the "kronk" is probably the rollers slipping slightly under load.

 

These motors work best when you cycle a little and then engage the motor. Probably will make the motor last longer as well.

 

I usually just do a few turns on the crank up to about 5mph and then engage the motor on my Cytronex bike that has a Tongxin motor fitted as well.

 

PS just read John's reply which may be more accurate than mine but that said it is my opinion (and his I think) that its still not best to start from a standing start with this motor.

 

Regards

 

Jerry

Edited November 13, 200916 yr by jerrysimon

charger pics

 

Hi John and Jerry,

Thanks for the feedback re: the 'kronk' noise. Good to know it is 'normal'. I have been trying not to go from a standstill but I guess I was starting to get cocky as I have gained more confidence using the motor! Will definitely try to get underway now before using it - can be tricky in some areas where it's so steep, and therefore hard to use the throttle when e.g. standing up in the pedals and really pulling on the handlebars to try to get any headway. I guess that's where pedal-assist comes into its own?

 

I've now taped up the rubber bit which was starting to break up over the axle nut by the wiring. I'll be able to see the pattern of wear as I repeatedly fold the bike. Another issue just confronted was a with fitting the pump onto the nozzle with the spokes fitted the way they are: to start with I thought I would be unable to pump up my front tyre but can just about do it from one side if I bend the nozzle out a bit. Phew.

 

Here is the charger fyi Jerry. Sorry for the delay an' all...

 

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5862/charger002.jpg

 

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/1046/charger001.jpg

 

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/2680/charger007.jpg

 

Hope that answers your questions.

Did you hear anything from Andrew re: the balancing issue?

 

BW

Caroline

Thanks!

 

Thanks for postind the pics Caroline that was really helpful.

 

That is pretty much a generic charger sold for the charging of ebike batteries. That said most ebike batteries have a BMS (Battery Management System) circuit built in to them. These don't.

 

I have confirmed that the setup does not provide balancing and to be fair, from the reading I have done and the replies that Freedom have given me I appears that these A123 cells are much more resilient and robust to any abuse compared to other Lithium technology cells.

 

In the ebike world they don't get nearly the abuse that they would in the model RC world where they would typically be discharged very fast and charged at a much higher rate. In that environment the concensus is that they do need balancing more often.

 

There is a possibility over time however that they could get out of balance. In this case the balancing tabs would in fact allow you to balance them with a suitable charger/balancer if you chose to purchase one.

 

This type of thing would do it I think, though I am guessing each tab balances 6 of the cells.

 

Turnigy Accucel 6 lipo charger LiPo/LiFe and NiMH Nicad on eBay (end time 28-Nov-09 21:36:18 GMT)

 

 

Given the guarantee from Freedom I don't think you need to worry though at least not in the first to second year of use.

 

Regards

 

Jerry

Edited November 16, 200916 yr by jerrysimon

Yippee

 

Good news I just heard that my Brompton M3L will be delivered on Wednesday under the cycle to work scheme.

 

I then need to decide if I am going for the Feedom E or EWC solution

 

Last night I got quizzed by my other half about why I need an EBrompton AND a Cytronex which may mean the Cytronex will have to be retired if I like the EBrompton and use it every day for work

 

Regards

 

Jerry

Edited November 16, 200916 yr by jerrysimon

Jerry - you need both because they are complementary!

 

Cytronex: long journeys, gentle slopes, high speed, store outside

 

Electric Brompton: short journeys, steep hills, moderate speed, store inside, carry around

 

Don't let anyone tell you different!

Edited November 16, 200916 yr by AndyOfTheSouth