I see that late morning today he has pulled his auctions off e-bay (or they have removed them). Did anyone report him?

I see that late morning today he has pulled his auctions off e-bay (or they have removed them). Did anyone report him?

 

This seller only had one item for sale, but bidding ended on 02 Nov, 2009 at 23:45:43 GMT so you won't find it anymore. However you can still click on the direct eBay link and/or read the auction text (copy/paste) here:

 

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/4946-forget-rest-look-2.html#post62330

 

- EDIT - there was a 48V-900W version as well: http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/4946-forget-rest-look-5.html#post62504

 

Cheers, Dan

Edited November 4, 200916 yr by daniel.weck

Cyclone are represented here now with a new dealer Dave:

 

Eclipse Bikes

 

Eclipse bikes on ebay

.

 

Thanks, I didn't realize that.

 

So, the eBay seller in question in this thread simply copy/pasted some text from Eclipse-Bikes and even "stole" the YouTube video (instead of just pointing to it)...

 

Did anyone report the guy to Eclipse-Bikes ?

 

Original:

 

YouTube - Kanal von epedalpower

 

250 Watt Electric Bike Kit Motor E-Bike Hub Alternative on eBay (end time 21-Nov-09 21:33:34 GMT)

 

Copy:

 

YouTube - Kanal von fastestebike

 

Oxford Gearbox 250W 24v electric bike Kit 0-30mph 5sec on eBay (end time 02-Nov-09 23:45:43 GMT)

 

Oxford Gearboxed 900W 48v electric bike Kit cruise50mph on eBay (end time 02-Nov-09 23:45:12 GMT)

 

Buyers, ... beware !!

Edited November 4, 200916 yr by daniel.weck

Thanks flecc,

 

I hope they stay longer than the earlier sellers. Good to know the are there 'though they don't stock the double freewheel motors, the prices are fair.

 

Dave

Wow just check his latest feedback that is enough to put anyone off

 

Regards

 

Jerry

Flecc, your rough & ready calculation of power as force (i.e. weight) x vertical component of velocity is a good approximation at the low cycling speeds concerned.

 

If you haven't already seen it, I recently came across this calculator which you might also find of interest. It takes into account wind resistance and friction (which really only become significant at higher speeds, as you'll know).

 

It's very interesting to plug in different values to see the effect on the power required under different circumstances.

 

Cycling: Steady State Power Equation

Flecc, your rough & ready calculation of power as force (i.e. weight) x vertical component of velocity is a good approximation at the low cycling speeds concerned.

 

If you haven't already seen it, I recently came across this calculator which you might also find of interest. It takes into account wind resistance and friction (which really only become significant at higher speeds, as you'll know).

 

It's very interesting to plug in different values to see the effect on the power required under different circumstances.

 

Cycling: Steady State Power Equation

 

Thanks Davall, as you say though, my equation is ok for e-bike purposes since wind resistance and other factors are minimal at their climb speeds. It would be possible to improve the equation with a sub section adjusting the fixed factor with the gradient to allow for the change with varying steepness, instead of the switch from the G fraction to the alternative method. The added complexity would make it less instantly useful though.

 

I've got many equations and other valuable information in the cycling bible, "Bicycling Science" by David Gordon Wilson, though not my particular hill climb power one.

 

I still enjoy doing things the "hard" way rather than always using online calculators since full understanding is involved, and I compare it with the situation involving today's kids and calculators, many of them totally lost without one. There are many other comparisons of course, GPS against maps and GPS against charts and sextants for example.

.

Struggling with a factor of 10

 

Flecc, your rough & ready calculation of power as force (i.e. weight) x vertical component of velocity is a good approximation at the low cycling speeds concerned.

 

If you haven't already seen it, I recently came across this calculator which you might also find of interest. It takes into account wind resistance and friction (which really only become significant at higher speeds, as you'll know).

 

It's very interesting to plug in different values to see the effect on the power required under different circumstances.

 

Cycling: Steady State Power Equation

 

 

I'm stuggling with a factor of ten on trying to covert watts/calories used. Clearly I'm missing an important point. Asumming steady state conditions of a 70Kg man and 24kg bike cycling at 15 km/hr with no headwind on a flat road the value in watts used is 36 watts. Converting this to calories this equates to 8.6 calories (1 Ws = 0.238846 cal)

Assume an hour under constant conditions this equates to 30960 calories (36Ws x 3600s x .2388460) or 30.9 kcal - I thought general energy expenditure for average cycling was more like 300 kcal/hr. What am I missing or what's my fundamental error?

 

Thanks

 

Mike

Just a thought Mike, 15 kph is 9.4 mph, well short of average cycling speeds and the wattage will increase quite lot if adjusted to more common speeds. For example using your figures with different speeds:

 

at the utility riding speed of 12 mph it's 59 watts

 

at a typical MTB/e-bike rider speed of 15 mph it's 99 watts

 

at a typical club sport rider speed of 20 mph it's 205 watts

 

Other online calculators agree with your conversion and calculation so I also cannot see a point of error, despite the presence of a factor of 10 difference, which is also verified by the readouts from online cycling calculators.

.

Edited November 3, 200916 yr by flecc

Mike, I see nothing wrong with your calculation either, and I think there are two aspects to this.

 

I suspect part of the problem is in the interpretation of the 'average bike ride' which leads to the figure of 300 calories per hour sometimes quoted.

 

The kind of average bike ride being envisaged probably wouldn't be on a windless day on a perfectly flat road, but would likely involve a light breeze and some undulations. Once you start climbing any sort of hill, the energy consumption shoots up.

 

If we model the hour bike ride as something like 45 minutes of it spent cycling up gentle 5% slopes at 10kph and 15 minutes rolling back down at 30kph, that gives the same average of 15kph. With a light breeze of 6kph and the 'average' less than ideal tyres/surface (coeff. of resistance set at 0.01), the calculator now gives 165 watts for the hour rather than the original model's 36. That equates to 142 additional calories required, rather than 31.

 

But these figures would be true of a 100% efficient machine, which a human isn't of course. For the average Joe to supply 165 watts at the pedals, he would most probably be burning up an awful lot more internally. Much is given off as excess heat from the body, as all we cyclists know only too well! The average human is perhaps only 25% mechanically efficient, if that?

 

It's then easier to see how 31 calories on an ideal flat road with a 100% efficient machine might translate into ten times that on an undulating road powered by a human engine.

 

We know that 31 calories would be nowhere near enough, because a 70kg man burns up 60 calories per hour when simply sleeping -- something I'm about to put to the test incidentally.....

So all up does that mean, the claims are impossible?

Providing the battery power is enough to sustain the motor?

So all up does that mean, the claims are impossible?

Providing the battery power is enough to sustain the motor?

 

The claims are ridiculous, regardless of the battery provided, the site text is full of nonsense. The Orient and particularly China is littered with sellers and manufacturers like this, sometimes not having a clue but more often just plain dishonest and deluded enough to think everyone else is stupid.

 

Yet another one was brought to my attention this morning.

.

I think the "error" is not realising that what we refer to as Calories are in actual fact Kilocalories in a nutrition context, ie 1000 Calories

 

All About Calories

 

Calories per minute (without assist)

 

12-14mph moderate = 13.1 cal per minute

14-16mph vigorous = 16.4 cal per minute

16-19mph (not drafting) = 19.7 cal per minute

20+ racing = 26.2 cal per minute

 

Obviously there are other factors such as weight, terrain, wind etc

 

Not that I'm obsessive or anything ;-)

Edited November 4, 200916 yr by themutiny

 

I think the "error" is not realising that what we refer to as Calories are in actual fact Kilocalories in a nutrition context, ie 1000 Calories

 

No, if you look at our calculations, you'll see we have been correctly calculating both in kilocalories and calories where appropriate.

 

If that was our mistake, the apparent discrepancy wouldn't be the 10 times it is but 100 times.

 

Personally I prefer to stick to Watts in cycling calculations, using calories only for dietary and weight losing purposes.

.

Psycosis,

 

In post # 37 flecc answered your question and in post # 25 he kindly gave me links to Cyclone dealers.

 

For a more realistic idea of the capabilities of Cyclone motors in particular and I would imagine any good ebike you could visit cyclone-usa.com and click on Performance.

Do bear in mind that the tests were 90+% on power only and only on 350W which is similar in size to the 250W and on the 500W which has a longer case.

 

One weak point with these motors is the glue that holds the 'nameplate' which has fallen off one of my Cyclone motors.

 

Dave

 

 

Electric Bicycle Motor Kits from Cyclone-USA

...bidding ended on 02 Nov, 2009 at 23:45:43 GMT so you won't find it anymore. However you can still click on the direct eBay link and/or read the auction text (copy/paste) here:

 

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bicycles/4946-forget-rest-look-2.html#post62330

 

Oh, and here's the nonsense written for the 48V-900W version of the kit (copy/pasted here just in case eBay removes the auction completely):

 

Oxford Gearboxed 900W 48v electric bike Kit cruise50mph on eBay (end time 02-Nov-09 23:45:12 GMT)

 

---

The Fastest and Safest Quality Electric Bicycle Kit in the World

 

 

Let us talk about the drive system for a little bit… The system developed by Oxford Gearbox is by far the most efficient system made to date.

 

It’s easy to install. It naturally aligns and runs true. It changes the ‘heart’ of the machine, and the power transfer is almost lossless. It uses the bikes gears. This means that as the rider skill improves over the 3000 cycles of the battery, the rider will learn to use the battery energy just as they do their own body. If I have energy and want to get somewhere fast I pedal hard. If I am a little tired or have a longer ride I would pedal slower. Ditto the bike.

 

The efficiency and power of this set-up is incredible. It has a free-wheeling front crank. It is an absolute stroke of genius. One can change gear without pedalling.

 

I will happily race any other electric bicycle with matching battery/motor combo. If not identical, we can convert into watt-hours and accurately compare. I will happily compete in speed, distance travelled or acceleration. The Oxford Gearbox will win. If it doesn’t, I will stop making these and sell the one that beat me. But that seems very unlikely. Because we use the gears, this kit will win. Imagine driving your car with only one gear. Hardly likely to be efficient.

 

It all sounds a bit silly, but come and take one of the demo bikes for a spin and we will talk after that.

Our Gearboxed motors are superior to 1500 Watt Hub motors in that

 

1. Our model uses the full extent of your gears to propel you forward

 

2.Gearbox Bicycle Kits are UK-based and are supported

 

3. 900watt Gearboxed models last for 10 years

 

Power your way past cars uphill at speed, power up steep hills and inclines by changing down the gears. The Pictur above shows my Claud Butler with the 900w kit and 4 x SLA 9AH (range: 20-30miles,Top speed:40-50mph).

 

This kit is the ultimate cyclist helper, it comes with pedals, contains easy step-by-step instructions, our sales are reflected in our high feedback rating and we aim to help all our customers achieve the most they can out of cycling.

 

Having assembled this kit together and placed it under 48 hour dura-stress-cycle testing to ensure it conforms to the ECA standard it is a quality product that offers the highest levels of safety to reduce the rising fuel costs, global warming, but most of all it pays for itself within 4 months, it is seriously great fun to use and is in it's own league and far superior to any other kit. Built from the highest pre-fabricated and lathed materials in the UK

 

However off-road, it is different, on private University campuses, private parks, private fields, private leisure centers, private car parks (wherever possible, it is your responsibility to determine the Law), some private bicycle paths etc..etc.. cruising speed is around 50mph without pedal assist. To make things clear, this is as fast as it gets with electric bicycles, the kit is marked 24v 250watt, however Linked to your chain-drive the power output of the motor is multiplied by a ratio of 2:2:18 equalling 3800 to 5300 watts on the smallest and biggest gears respectively, the kit is also upgradeable to any voltage up to 48volts, ideally it performs best at 48-60volts.

 

Battery packs are available and are £60 for 48v 10amps (please ask for more information). We advise you to wear a helmet, get insured, and not break the speed limit or any laws.

 

By using a standard bicycle's gearing this kit can climb steep 65% hills, accelerate faster than some cars uphill and is most probably the best quality electric bicycle Kit you've ever seen.

 

We also offer the bicycles ready-made at a higher price in mountain Bike (£1749) / Touring (£1320) / Beach Cruiser frames (£642) (feel free to contact us for more information at fastestebike@gmail.com)

 

 

"The Kit has replaced the Car Completely! I never thought I'd get so much out of it, I never believed in cars anyway, my wife loves it, it gets the groceries, we wonder why ever didn't we buy it in the first place?!?Kim Martin"

 

What it is:

 

900 Watt 48V Brushless Electric Bike Kit 3 Chainwheel System That Uses the Rear Gears to propel your Bicycle forward (and increases power output)

 

are you:

 

Tired of being stuck in morning traffic?

 

Sick of arriving late and tired to University Lectures?

 

TIRED of spending £30-£50 on weekly rising fuel costs?

 

Do you Need an alternative that will help you get fit without having to climb up steep hills?

 

If you want to Reduce your short travel costs, or just get fit, then this kit is the thing for you.

 

When we conducted our Preliminary Market research and asked around Oxford we wondered who could afford a car anyway?

 

The main aim of the kit was primarily to ease the setup to rival the installation of a hub motor. It suffices to state that this kit takes 1 hour to attach to any standard bicycle(18",19",20",21" frames), it is 21 x as fast as a 1500 watt ''hub motor'' in that you can use your gears on the bicycle. The Built-in freewheel means pedals do not spin when the motor is running. You can pedal only if you want to (thanks to the (patented Freewheel Chainwheel Setup) When in pedal mode there remains no drag from the motor. steep hills can be coasted at up to 50mph cruising speeds on the flats, 40mph up 45% gradients. (The kits get noticed very often and hold their own reputation in Oxford).

 

A warning, from experience, to Ebayers: Do not buy cheap chinese ''1500 watt'' Hub motors that you have seen on the other pages, Those Kits come unfinished, contain technical and operational issues, they maintain no customer support, they are slow, they do not function to a reasonable standard and are genuinely unsafe. They do not climb hills satisfactorily and slow to a halt. Efficiency is another factor standing at 60% when we tested them (while our Oxford Kit is 94% efficient), the Hub motors are cheap and a waste.

 

The Largest Hub motor on Ebay today is rated at 1,500 Watts but by using the Oxford Kit through your bicycle's gearing you are generating in excess of 5,300Watts which will probably out-accelerate most things on wheels ( hillclimber superbike). If you need any help with the kit then you can reach us any time by my email, which is fastestebike@gmail.com where we will do our utmost to help (email us on Sundays, times of inconvenience, because we are here to help, our company policy is to help make the world greener and we will do our utmost to assist you.

(some Statistics).

 

*

 

4SLA 48v 10amp (12v x 4) batteries will power you at 30-40mph (depending on your weight) or 50mph for 20-40 miles depending on usage.

*

 

upon testing this bike was ridden at 30mph pedal assisted for 49miles, no pedalling for 20miles (full throttle the acceleration was and still is unmatched at 0-30mph in 5-8 seconds).

*

 

When the battery finally gave up it's charge after 34 miles the charge time took 90 minutes with a heavy duty 10amp charger (not included, we do include, at no extra cost a downscaled charger)

*

 

The bicycle's total weight is 27kilograms

*

 

you freewheel(no pedalling required but optional if you want to, this kit involves freewheeling pedals).

*

 

It's Handbuilt ( you'll get a big wide Electric Vehicle Grin when it's done!)

*

 

The kit will propel you up a steep hill at full throttle at 15mph

*

 

I commute daily I have used this setup for 600miles and nothing needed changing.

 

What's in the box:

 

900W Motor, Gearbox & 14T Freewheel Sprocket, External 24v Controller (Motor Weight 3.2kg - Controller Weight 1.1kg).

Motor Mounting Bracket With Bolts.

Chain Tensioner.

Triple Freewheel Chainwheel 44T/44T/32T Tooth.

Bottom Bracket 153mm Cartridge BB Set.

Left & Right Crank Arms - 170mm.

Twist Grip Throttle.

2 x Handlebar Grips.

Battery Connecting Harness.

 

Mounting bracket for motor will fit most bike frames up to a width of 52mm. Battery, charger & battery bag/case not included.

 

The 900 Watt motor performs best when coupled with our high performance 36V LifePo4 battery. Please see battery category for details.

 

Kit is intended for off road use only as it exceeds the legal power limit of 200/250 watts

 

Motor kit comes with 1 year limited warranty, I hold no responsibility for any damage sustained from this product to person property or any other injury that may or may not be sustained from this product, I also do not accept returns, or take responsibility for damage connected or unconnected by it, I advise that the legal limit in the UK is 15mph and that this bike is to be used at 15mph and no faster and is for OFFROAD ONLY by reading this you understand that I take no responsibility at all for your use of this product.

I sent the e-bayer of the 40 miles at 40mph moutaineering bike kit a message the other day and asked him where he was from. His e-bay location was Staffordshire despite the implication within the advert that it was Oxford. Anyway he replied that he was actually in Northumberland and his name was Rob.

 

We know that the e-bay scammer is using eclipse bikes' ad material so I sent Eclipse-bikes an e-mail and asked them where they were located as I was interested in their products. (Their website gives no geographical location). I got an e-mail back saying they were in Newcastle. The e-mail was from a chap called Rob!

 

Are they one and the same?

 

The reason is that I am genuinely interested in this type of kit but obviously wish to deal with a bona fide supplier. I'm not sure I've yet found one.

 

Does anyone have any direct experience with Eclipse-Bikes? A flashy website but no listed address or real contact details doesn't give confidence.

 

Does anyone have any direct experience with Eclipse-Bikes? A flashy website but no listed address or real contact details doesn't give confidence.

 

I'd always treat everything to do with Cyclone with some caution. Cyclone's trading arrangements leave much to be desired and they have had a patchy product history, so it wouldn't surprise me if they were mixed up with dealers of a similar ilk.

.

I have used the Cyclone kit on one of my bike conversions.

I bought most of the stuff direct from Taiwan. But I have contacted Rob and bought items from his web site Eclipse-Bikes. He is in Newcastle, Northumberland, and he is the official rep. for Cyclone motors in the UK.

In future I think I would use the UK rep again rather than buying from Taiwan; with exchange rate, customs delays, VAT charges, postal charges can make the difference between the UK and Taiwan prices very small. I’ve had quick responses via email from both Paco in Taiwan and Rob in the UK both seem very helpful in answering any quires.

 

I am not sure about this other EBay item Oxford Gearbox; I think that appears to be a scam. With some stuff copied from the Eclipse-Bikes web site, and other stuff mixed in that does not appear legit. I am not sure it has any connection with Cyclone

 

So I can confirm that:- eclipsebikes.com| bikes | electric bike kits | Pedal | Power , Robert Tointon is OK. The info is shown on the Cyclone website, Contact Us.

By the way the kits seem quite good if you don’t mind doing a bit of engineering, waterproofing connectors, etc. There is plenty of power using the bikes gears. I am using the 3 Chainwheel kit

So I have 18 speeds now with 44T 32T at the crank, and a 9 speed cassette on the rear wheel.

If you look at the Eclipse-Bikes site you will see there are” 3 Chainwheel Custom Kits”, which is what I am using.

If you want to be street legal you will probably have to fit the PAS sensor otherwise you will be able to go over 15MPH depending on your bikes gearing.

The first time I took the bike out for a test ride I set off up quite a steep hill in too lower gear and promptly did a wheelie almost falling off the back of the bike! A lot more torque than my other conversion with the 36V Alien front wheel kit.

A lot more torque than my other conversion with the 36V Alien front wheel kit.

 

Thanks for your input !

What about noise compared to the Alien/Bafang hub motor ?

 

So I can confirm that:- eclipsebikes.com| bikes | electric bike kits | Pedal | Power , Robert Tointon is OK.

 

Thanks vhfman, that's good to know. It was a bit worrying that there was no telephone number or address and only a first name available before, especially given some of the earlier Cyclone history.

.

When their e-bay listing ended I sent a message asking if they would be re-advertising as I was interested - which I am.

 

I now have a message from someone called "Nad" (new name) who states that they pulled their listings the other day (they didn't time expire) - because they were selling out of kits! They will be re-advertising when their stock is replenished and they only ever sell on e-bay. (Funny there is no e-bike feedback on there?)

 

I still think this is a front for eclipse-bikes.

Vhfman,

What Cyclone Motor + Battery Do You Have.can You Tell Me What Speed And Miles Range You Get.

 

Thanks,

Mapman.

I can confirm the stuff contained in the kit is exactly the same at fist appearances to the eclipse kits.

So if these work ok then everything should be sweet.

 

I put my hand up and say i bought one of these kits last month and i have been interested to see your comments about the guy selling them.

The kit turned up 48 hours after he said it would arrive so at the very least at this point i can say if you order something you will get it from him. It was sent by parcel force and he supplied the tracking numbers as soon as it was sent.

He has also been very quick to answer his emails, always handy, i must have sent over 20 emails to him.

 

I can fill in more info later and i actually have no war to verify this info but this is what is different with this kit so i have been told:

MOSFET's have been upgraded

some sort of capacitor to boost the voltage has been upgraded/changed

the housing has been waterproofed

555's have been uprated (no idea what they are)

electrolytic capacitors have been uprated

 

most of this means nothing to me, but safe to say i will report back. Maybe i will start a new thread with the info on although it sounds like fitting is going to be exactly the same as a cyclone kit.

The guy has taken a cyclone kit and tweeked it to make it better, addressing some of the issues others had reported.

Edited November 6, 200916 yr by Psycosis

The pedant in me cannot resist this comment - Newcastle is in Tyne & Wear - not Northumberland.