Somewhat conflicted by all of this. Not least because I ride an e-bike that is advertised as illegal and is technically illegal.

There is no such thing as "technically illegal" or "just a bit illegal". Your bike is illegal - fact.

Stop trying to defend the fact that you are riding an illegal bike and that everything is OK, because ignorance is no defence in law.

 

Colin

There is no such thing as "technically illegal" or "just a bit illegal". Your bike is illegal - fact.

Stop trying to defend the fact that you are riding an illegal bike and that everything is OK, because ignorance is no defence in law.

 

Colin

 

Flashing Lights fitted to bikes are technically illegal ?

 

Is reverse parking on a one-way street technically illegal?

quote by flecc.

" But Croydon now has a specialist e-bike only dealer and two other bike shops selling e-bikes as well "

 

sorry to but in on this thread but would like to know where these outlets are please flecc.

 

Lloyd informed me about the e-bike outlet, but I see it's actually in nearby Coulsdon:

 

CyclingMadeEasy

 

The bike shops that also sell e-bikes are CycleKing who are Powabyke agents:

 

Managed by Paul & Danny 26-40 Brighton Rd, South Croydon, CR2 6AA 0208 649 9002

croydon@cycleking.co.uk

 

And BikePlus who are Giant agents and who've sold electric since the Lafree Twist series:

 

managed by Paul Smith

429 Brighton Rd

South Croydon CR2 6EU

020 8763 1988

 

I bought my Lafree from BikePlus 8 years ago.

 

And now there's yet another e-bike outlet I'd forgotten to count, Evans Cycles at West Croydon, since they are agents for the new Trek Electric bikes using the BionX motors.

 

So four local outlets in all now.

.

Edited January 31, 201115 yr by flecc

Flashing Lights fitted to bikes are technically illegal ?

 

Is reverse parking on a one-way street technically illegal?

Just what bit of "There is no such thing as "technically illegal"" is it that you don't understand?

 

Colin

Just what bit of "There is no such thing as "technically illegal"" is it that you don't understand?

 

Colin

 

 

I think forum member Jeremy summed it up nicely with this phrase:

 

the law is a little like pregnancy - you can't be just a little bit illegal any more than you can be a little bit pregnant.

 

Of course, some of our friends on here are going to come back now and say, "what has pregnancy got to do with electric bikes."

There is no such thing as "technically illegal" or "just a bit illegal". Your bike is illegal - fact.

Stop trying to defend the fact that you are riding an illegal bike and that everything is OK, because ignorance is no defence in law.

 

Colin

 

Yes, it's illegal. Yes, it means I break the law every day. But I guess you didn't get the bit about attitudes to law breaking. You see, I don't care. I don't expect it to ever cause me a problem but if it does I'll accept the consequences. I don't see this as a black and white issue mostly because I don't believe I'm harming anyone else by breaking this law. It's just one of the many laws I choose to ignore. It's not about ignorance, because in this case I'm not ignorant. It's about a personal choice that I'm making.

 

You're taking issue with my use of the words "technically illegal". I'm trying to make the point that while it's definitely, factually illegal, it's also unenforced and probably unenforceable. I'm not trying to say that it's not illegal.

Edited January 31, 201115 yr by jbond

technically flashing lights are not permitted on roads without street lighting

Edited January 31, 201115 yr by stevebills

Yes, it's illegal. Yes, it means I break the law every day. But I guess you didn't get the bit about attitudes to law breaking. You see, I don't care. I don't expect it to ever cause me a problem but if it does I'll accept the consequences. I don't see this as a black and white issue mostly because I don't believe I'm harming anyone else by breaking this law. It's just one of the many laws I choose to ignore. It's not about ignorance, because in this case I'm not ignorant. It's about a personal choice that I'm making.

 

You're taking issue with my use of the words "technically illegal". I'm trying to make the point that while it's definitely, factually illegal, it's also unenforced and probably unenforceable. I'm not trying to say that it's not illegal.

 

jbond, have you considered what would happen if everyone decided to make the same choices as you? If a large number of people decided that current ebike legislation didn't suit them and opted to do what they please, I think that there would be a crackdown and a tightening of legislation. That would mean that the people who stay within the law would also suffer. And that is plainly wrong.

Edited January 31, 201115 yr by tillson

jbond, have you considered what would happen if everyone decided to make the same choices as you? If a large number of people decided that current ebike legislation didn't suit them and opted to do what they please, I think that there would be a crackdown and a tightening of legislation. That would mean that the people who stay within the law would also suffer. And that is plainly wrong.

 

Well I did say I was conflicted about this. But I tried to explain that I don't think that will happen while we have a law in place that (more or less) matches the EU. The law is in place and if the Police decide or get forced into deciding to enforce it then no new laws are needed.

 

If we had a few thousand people riding around at 30 or 40 with no license or insurance, perhaps it would become a Daily Mail scourge the way that mini-motos did. But that's not happening is it and I don't feel like I'm contributing to that by doing a few miles an hour over the law's speed limit on something that looks and behaves like a bicycle.

 

There's a certain irony in this whole discussion that I spend most of my time on the medium speed setting in order to get an acceptable range and in that mode it runs inside the legal speed even though when hill climbing it is pulling more than the legal power.

Oh Tillson, that's a bit "holier than thou" but I'm bound to say I agree with you 100%. It seems there are quite a few forum members who wish to pick and choose which laws or parts of law they are happy to respect.

 

By even discussing non-conforming bikes in this forum, we probably do ourselves no favours as I'm pretty sure that these pages are read, (if not regularly, certainly occasionally) by police officers or other officials who might determine one day to have a blitz on just the likes of us.

 

The fact is, as with most things in life, there is legislation applicable to what we call ebikes and to flagrantly boast of owning/running patently illegal machinery here in the forum is plain stupid.

 

While I can't deny that I'd probably get a real thrill from riding one of those massively powerful machines which grab headlines from time to time, I'm also conscious of the fact that, generally, the cost to be borne for such power is seriously limited distance. In all honesty, if power or speed is the be all and end all, then other forms of transport are available which provide those easily. The elusive compromise of decent power/pace with acceptable mileage has improved in the legal ebike market and there's probably room for a little more improvement still.

 

Probably, the best thing that could happen with regard to ebiking, would be for a successful prosecution somewhere, establishing clear precedent. Were that to happen, it would serve to concentrate minds on optimising battery performance with legal bicycle performance, rather than the current trend towards the back street garage approach of plonking an American V8 into a Vauxhall Cavalier with complete disregard for any legislation.

 

It continues to surprise me that flashing bike lights (on their own) haven't been outlawed yet. I think they're brilliant but they don't comply with existing legislation. I think, used in conjunction with conventional lights, that would produce the best arrangement. The day is probably not far off when some committee or other will be charged with examining all matters relating to bicycles and it may be the case that forums like this will be consulted. If we are disposed towards the view that hugely powerful and illegal ebikes are fine provided they're only used by those with a motorcycle licence, then I think we could have problems.

 

Indalo

The law

 

Hi you where all having a go at me the other day

 

But it is still A FREE country

 

And we can make up our own mind

 

What we ride what we drive which religion we follow

 

Long live our FREEDOM

 

Frank

I'm sorry, but to try to make this sort of comparison is total rubbish.

Ebikes are not classed as motor vehicles. There is no tax, no compulsory insurance, no compulsory helmet, no licence needed to use a legal ebike on the road.

That is the difference - but the continued abuse of the law by those of you that have no respect for it.....(snip)

Colin

 

I don't think that tax or insurance is relevant. Where did I say the law should be abused? I didn't promote breaking the law anywhere in my post. I was discussing my views. I emphatically said that going 60 mph on a pedal bike was nuts. I think you are over-reacting.

 

I mentioned that since non assisted pedal cyclists regularly and routinely achieve easily 20 mph then that didn't seem to be an unreasonable speed for an assisted cycle without pedalling, assuming it is safe to do so. The method of propulsion, it seems to me, is irrelevant.

 

There is a difference between complying with the law and an open discussion about changing it. You seem to have the view that just because a law exists, one can't discuss whether it is open to change, and we must all respect it without question or discussion.

 

The picture of someone walking in front of a car with a red flag springs to mind. That was the law at one time!

 

I understand that your motives are probably to do with "not rocking the boat" so that e-bikes are not banned as a result of pushing one's luck. But most views expressed here are as mindful of safety as yours.

 

Leonard

the continued abuse of the law by those of you that have no respect for it, and seem to believe that if you ignore the law it will go away are wrong and *will* result in all the decent law-abiding riders being punished by having all ebikes classed as motor vehicles and need a licence, tax, insurance etc.

 

I like the use of the word "will" when "may" would have been better. Because that's not the way this stuff works, is it? It's far more likely that UK regs are fully harmonised with EU regs and throttles on new bikes are outlawed[1]. I can't imagine sections of the EU putting up with full licensing of all E-Bikes so I can't imagine the UK doing the same. The trend is towards the UK making no attempt to adjust EU regs for local conditions rather than forcing exceptions.

 

There's a perfectly adequate law in place that could be enforced if abuse of it became a problem. In exactly the same way that selective enforcement and spot checks are made on cyclists jumping red lights in London. I have a really hard time imagining our funding challenged police force organising spot checks on E-Bikes to see if they have a 350W sticker or a 250W sticker.

 

[1]If that happens, and I hope it won't, I fully expect to see discussion on this forum of how to add a throttle to pedelec only e-bikes.

I dont think ebikes are going to trigger off speed cameras ever!

Do I think these Adrenaline junkies who need there fix riding on 11000 watt car chasers With 250 watt stickers give a flaming hoot for the law "NO WAY"

As for Aurora riders well it would be a good to see them legalised so we see more on the roads.

I must go got a few cars to chase... then down to the gym for a workout!

Edited February 1, 201115 yr by stevebills

Where did I say the law should be abused? I didn't promote breaking the law anywhere in my post.

 

"does it really matter if an ebike can potentially exceed a limit of 15 mph by a few miles per hour more?"

It is illegal.

 

"Does it really matter that my fully charged battery is capable of propelling me to 17.5 mph if I judge that it is safe to do so?"

It is illegal.

Go to Germany where they have a separate class.

 

I emphatically said that going 60 mph on a pedal bike was nuts.

Not at all. It is a speed frequently achieved when racing. I averaged 55mph over 20 miles going down the Italian side of the Simplon Pass in the sixties. That included a dozen or so hairpins and other tight bends so a lot of the time I was in excess of 60mph. The road had been resurfaced recently, lorry and car drivers were very co-operative in giving me all the room I needed, and the border post opened the barriers and waved me through before I had to slow down. I was in 100% control at all times and the bike was fitted out for doing fast speeds safely and I had the experience. I will also guarantee that many riders achieved better times than me going down that mountain just as safely.

 

There is a difference between complying with the law and an open discussion about changing it.

You already said you saw no point in complying with the law as it stands.

 

Colin

quote from Jeremys previous post ;

Agreed, but currently 250W is accepted in the UK as being the upper continuous power limit, following an acceptance that the UK had no choice but to comply with the EU power and speed limits, hence 25kph, around 15.6mph (rather than 15mph as stated in the old EAPC regulations). The UK is still sitting on the fence with regard to implementing the pedelec regulation that applies in the rest of the EU, but because of the free trade regulations had no choice but to accept EU type approved ebikes (with their 250 watt limit) as being legal.

 

Looks like 'Wally' is illegal then !!!

Where's Wally?

 

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w13/stevebills/wheres_wally.jpg

'Wally' is CeeGee's Wisper. Totaly illegal to ride under power on British roads as this powerful beast without a doubt exceeds the 250 W upper limit .

'Wally' is CeeGee's Wisper. Totaly illegal to ride under power on British roads as this powerful beast without a doubt exceeds the 250 W upper limit .

I suggest you take that up with Wisper then. It is about them you are making your accusations about.

 

Colin

It sound like a job for your local trading standards

 

Frank

'Wally' is CeeGee's Wisper. Totaly illegal to ride under power on British roads as this powerful beast without a doubt exceeds the 250 W upper limit .

Also you had better contact the City of London Police - you can get them prosecuted can't you. You obviously know the legal status of the Wisper better than them.

 

Colin

Also you had better contact the City of London Police - you can get them prosecuted can't you. You obviously know the legal status of the Wisper better than them.

 

Colin

I don't care about their legal status !!! I ride an Ezee [very illegal according to you]. It's not my fault you chose to align yourself with their subversive society destroying ideals ! Go down to your local 'nick' and turn yourself in---I 'm sure they'll go ezee on you.Try not to use the off road button on the way.

Me --I'm off to Germany [Ahh !! the freedom of the Autobahns]

Hi the answer is simple if you have ANY MAKE off bike and you are not sure

 

 

connect a watts up meter the battery connector and it will record all the power used

 

Or a cycle analyst with a power bridge

 

I would expect with a 36 volt battery to see 500/600 watts

 

But that is peak power not nominal

 

 

 

Any way the main rule is 15.5 MPH and i am positive the wisper complies with that

 

Frank

OR Maybe They have the 19.5 off road opposition fitted

 

To catch the bad boy high power E bikes

 

 

Frank

Go down to your local 'nick' and turn yourself in---

I have already discussed the bike with the police in Hampshire, including a demonstration of the off-road switch - the only time I have used the extra speed on the road.

However, how can I turn myself in when I have done nothing illegal?

Or are you once again implying that Wisper are knowingly selling an illegal bike as legal? I think you should clarify that point because that is a serious allegation.

 

Colin