Illegal... well they're not illegal are they? Handguns are illegal, these bikes are just illegal to use on the road. I dont think comparisons can be drawn between an eBike thats a few mph faster than a legal version and 70mph motocross bikes, thats just silly.

 

The guy who is selling them seems to think that they are illegal. He says so. You even go on to contradict yourself by saying, "an eBike thats a few mph faster than a legal version." The implication being that they are illegal. I know, perhaps everyone is silly except you?

 

"I dont think comparisons can be drawn between an eBike thats a few mph faster than a legal version and 70mph motocross bikes, thats just silly."

 

Please share your wisdom. How much faster than the legal limit is it permissible to go? Do you have any case law to back up this bunkum? Or are you just letting your figures dance aimlessly across the keyboard with little or no thought behind what you say?

 

Streethawk, I'm afraid that you are typical of the people who screw up a good thing for the majority. They did it to trail riding and they will do it to electric bicycles.

 

And don't try to convince me that people buy these things to use off road. It's a bit child like.

Edited January 29, 201115 yr by tillson

The only thing child-like is how upset you're getting at all this. This is a debate, not an excuse to rant until everyone else accepts your point of view.

They form their own opinions. I am voicing mine. Also, once i had made the statement that they were illegal on the road, the "on the road" part is understood, thats basic English, and certainly no contradiction.

I know what you are saying, but:

A few years ago, quite a few years ago actually, I used to enjoy motor bike trail riding, or green laneing as it was called. Back then, everyone more or less conformed to the law and was careful not to spin up the back wheel and was courteous to walkers etc. No one paid much attention, least of all the police. (Not that we were doing anything wrong.)

 

Then came along those that wanted to do what they wanted, where they wanted. They ride two stroke MOTO X bikes without silencers, don't stick to the trails (probably because they are too stupid to read a map) and regularly exceed 70 MPH plus on what is essentially a foot path. Of course, they then start hitting trees, walkers, dogs, dry stone walls and other such objects. This then alienates the walkers who complain. The police then get interested who find out that there is little that they can do because the motor bikes are technically on a road. The profile of this once gentile, minority sport is then raised for all the wrong reasons and the policy / law makers get involved. They are now de-classifying some of these ancient roads. Basically, the idiots have blown it for everybody.

 

This is happening everywhere, pavements that aren't being used as car parks now seem to have turned into cycle paths, while I will push an incapacitated bike on a path, I ride them on the road. As for speed limits, back in my youth I used to cycle everywhere, my mum caught up with me coming home one day, uphill, she then followed me down the other side, she said it became hard keeping up and I hit 45mph, and some people think 15 mph is too fast for an e-bike? While that e-bay monster is OTT and of dubious safety, I wouldn't try riding something that blatantly illegal on the road, I'll stick to my added hill climbing grunt 15mph-on-the-flat e-bike, motorbikes aren't that expensive to run for a speed freak.

The only thing child-like is how upset you're getting at all this. This is a debate, not an excuse to rant until everyone else accepts your point of view.

They form their own opinions. I am voicing mine. Also, once i had made the statement that they were illegal on the road, the "on the road" part is understood, thats basic English, and certainly no contradiction.

 

As I thought, no facts to back up anything that you have said, so I can dismiss you.

 

Thanks anyway, at least I have something to laugh at whilst I wade through a mountain of paperwork.

 

ps when you are talking about yourself, i should be a capital I, thus.

Edited January 29, 201115 yr by tillson

No "facts" i provide would please you, but of course this was simply my opinion, and i'm not forcing it upon you. I see no need to get personal, even if you do. You have my pity.

Deep breath everyone!

 

As I said before, you pays your money, you takes your chance. There are those who think illegal is illegal period. There are those who don't give 2 hoots about anyone but themselves and would happily plough down the road (or pavement) at 40 mph on a sooped up ebike. Then there are people in the middle like myself/Streethawk, and other (strangely silent) Aurora owners, who, despite it being........I almost said technically illegal, but it's actually just illegal for road use, weigh up the pros and cons, and make the decision to ride on the roads. The Aurora isn't over the top, just 20% faster than a 250w legal bike. I can pedal just over 25 mph on my Dawes, and I'm pretty sure that on the right road bike I could hit 30+ on the level and 45 downhill. The Aurora is not Satans steed, it's what all ebikes should be in my 'humble' opinion. Nuff said.

You have my pity.

 

Cheers ......

As I thought, no facts to back up anything that you have said, so I can dismiss you.

 

Thanks anyway, at least I have something to laugh at whilst I wade through a mountain of paperwork.

 

ps when you are talking about yourself, i should be a capital I, thus.

 

Who cares about I or i and what the hell has a 70 mph motorcrosser not a motorX get that spelling right.. got to do with an e bike..

Who cares about I or i

Me

 

 

the hell has a 70 mph motorcrosser not a motorX get that spelling right.. got to do with an e bike..

 

I am making the point that if you abuse the law, for example, Moto X bike doing 70 MPH on a green lane, then the authorities take notice and legislate against everyone, even the responsible riders. Everybody is disadvantaged. This has happened. It is real.

 

Similarly, if illegal ebikes become prevalent, and worse, sellers and riders boast about them, like they are doing, the same thing WILL happen. We will be legislated against and we will all suffer.

 

Try to understand and don't look at things in such a superficial way. It's not simply Moto X, uuugghhh, 70 MPH, ug, ebike, much slower, brain hurting, can't compute. THINK.

Edited January 29, 201115 yr by tillson

And another Aurora owning motorcyclist here, with an even faster 196mph ZX12R, which has never seen its top speed in my ownership.

 

Is there some kind of correlation here? Mine's a GSXR750K8. Though today I was on the Burgman 400 Megascoot to go into London.

Illegal... well they're not illegal are they? Handguns are illegal, these bikes are just illegal to use on the road. I dont think comparisons can be drawn between an eBike thats a few mph faster than a legal version and 70mph motocross bikes, thats just silly.

 

Hey the law is the law i rest my case ..!

Me

 

 

 

 

I am making the point that if you abuse the law, for example, Moto X bike doing 70 MPH on a green lane, then the authorities take notice and legislate against everyone, even the responsible riders. Everybody is disadvantaged. This has happened. It is real.

 

Similarly, if illegal ebikes become prevalent, and worse, sellers and riders boast about them, like they are doing, the same thing WILL happen. We will be legislated against and we will all suffer.

 

Try to understand and don't look at things in such a superficial way. It's not simply Moto X, uuugghhh, 70 MPH, ug, ebike, much slower, brain hurting, can't compute. THINK.

 

like it in full agreement

Illegal... well they're not illegal are they? Handguns are illegal, these bikes are just illegal to use on the road. I dont think comparisons can be drawn between an eBike thats a few mph faster than a legal version and 70mph motocross bikes, thats just silly.

 

Hello actually hand guns are legal it all depends on the structure of them i.e. barrel lenth and shoulder stock take it from me i know it's a rose by any other name ..!

Fast e-bikes aren't illegal .

And another Aurora owning motorcyclist here, with an even faster 196mph ZX12R, which has never seen its top speed in my ownership. I really dont draw any performance parallels between the two machine when one is 10x as fast as the other, and ten times the weight.

 

Is there some kind of correlation here? Mine's a GSXR750K8.

 

 

I think there may be. Owners of high powered motorbikes do (or at least should)) possess a greater ability to judge speed and distance. I'd also venture that we are more risk aware than non motorcyclists. Therefore (maybe wrongly) we feel more comfortable and capable of safely riding something with a bit moor ooomph. I realise that what I've just written sounds a bit cocky, but since I took my bike test 10 years ago, my driving has definitely improved. I'd say the same about passing my HGV test. Any experience of driving/riding different vehicles makes you a better all round driver/rider.

 

 

 

I can't see the road legal/non road legal debate being settled any time soon, so how about this. Straight sprint race over a 1/4 mile. The winner of this race is deemed the winner of the debate.

Edited January 29, 201115 yr by BLACKPANTHER

Fastest bike ever and cant wait till he fits an etek motor to it lol

 

60 mph on a relatively flimsy ebike is clearly nuts. But owning an ebike that has electrical assistance with the potential to slightly exceed 15.5 mph is hardly a serious crime.

 

The most you can legally do on a motorway is 70 mph but the majority of cars can generously exceed this. Power in cars that are not even exotic are effortless in exceeding the limit because everyone recognises that such power is useful for accelerating out of trouble, keeping a decent speed up steep hills, and coping with large loads.

 

The corollary with ebike regulations would be that each and every car, or motorbike, is manufactured so that it is impossible to exceed 70 mph, by putting some kind of speed governer on the car's transmission. If cars can routinely achieve 100 mph yet the speed limit is 30 mph slower, does it really matter if an ebike can potentially exceed a limit of 15 mph by a few miles per hour more?

 

That is in essence what we have with ebikes. As with almost all laws of this kind, the regulations are there to deal with the absolute lowest common denominator. Such laws never allow for intelligent or sensible people, but always legislate for the nutters who would routinely abuse any flexibility in the law.

 

Does it really matter that my fully charged battery is capable of propelling me to 17.5 mph if I judge that it is safe to do so?

 

As has been pointed out, many fit cyclists regularly travel at between 20 and 25 mph. I see no difference whatsoever in terms of safety between an ebike doing that speed and a pedal bike. The key to all this is judgement of speed according to circumstances, and I think anything up to 20 mph is perfectly reasonable given ideal conditions.

 

15.5 mph can itself be potential dangerous, and even 12 mph might be so on a crowded cycle path with many pedestrians. Far more relevant than sheer speed is the notion of due care and attention, something that the speed legislation appears to ignore. I therefore think 20 mph is a perfectly acceptable top speed, but of course only when it is safe to do so.

 

The proposed ban on throttle control in favour of the EU preferred pedal assist only, is in my view stupid. Many ebikes have limited control over the amount of pedal assist power, having an ON or OFF mode without three incremental controls. In my view a throttle gives infinitely safer control over speed, and should always be an option if desired by the rider.

 

I think the regulations are seeking to over-react to ebikes in a way that would never be applied to cars. If regulators want to really get obsessed with health and safety they would do well to divert their attention to motorbikes and cars that can accelerate incredibly quickly and then sustain speeds more than twice the current speed limit, and I say this as a motorcycle rider.

 

Of course there is also a point to be made about tax revenues. European governments are in many case pretending to promote so-called carbon free travel but at the same time are totally reliant on the enormous revenues they gain from fuel and road tax. If everyone in the UK ditched cars for bicycles the treasury would be even more bankrupt than it seems to be already!

 

Leonard

Edited January 29, 201115 yr by LeonardYoung

The corollary with ebike regulations would be that each and every car, or motorbike, is manufactured so that it is impossible to exceed 70 mph, by putting some kind of speed governer on the car's transmission.

 

And of course all cars would also need to have a uniform, or not exceed a nominal power output.

 

Some interesting points Leonard.

Edited January 30, 201115 yr by tillson

I'm sorry, but to try to make this sort of comparison is total rubbish.

Ebikes are not classed as motor vehicles. There is no tax, no compulsory insurance, no compulsory helmet, no licence needed to use a legal ebike on the road.

That is the difference - but the continued abuse of the law by those of you that have no respect for it, and seem to believe that if you ignore the law it will go away are wrong and will result in all the decent law-abiding riders being punished by having all ebikes classed as motor vehicles and need a licence, tax, insurance etc.

No doubt you will also ignore any new regulations, as you probably do for any motor vehicles you currently use, because you have decided that you don't like them.

There are electric, or petrol scooters if you need 20mph without pedalling - go and buy one, although you would need to buy insurance and wear an approved helmet so I suppose that idea is right out of the question.

 

Colin

I'm sorry, but to try to make this sort of comparison is total rubbish.

Ebikes are not classed as motor vehicles. There is no tax, no compulsory insurance, no compulsory helmet, no licence needed to use a legal ebike on the road.

That is the difference - but the continued abuse of the law by those of you that have no respect for it, and seem to believe that if you ignore the law it will go away are wrong and will result in all the decent law-abiding riders being punished by having all ebikes classed as motor vehicles and need a licence, tax, insurance etc.

No doubt you will also ignore any new regulations, as you probably do for any motor vehicles you currently use, because you have decided that you don't like them.

There are electric, or petrol scooters if you need 20mph without pedalling - go and buy one, although you would need to buy insurance and wear an approved helmet so I suppose that idea is right out of the question.

 

Colin

 

I trust Wally- excellent name- is in ridden within his restricted limits without the offroad capability some Wispers are/were provided with.

 

I'm sorry, but to try to make this sort of comparison is total rubbish.

Ebikes are not classed as motor vehicles. ....................., no licence needed to use a legal ebike on the road.

 

Exactly, the regulation strictness is necessary for everyone's safety when untested riders are involved.

 

It's also worth considering that in almost all countries there is no lower age limit for e-bikes, another good reason for restricting them to basic bicycle performance. I don't want to see 25 mph rich kids on shared use paths or pavements.

.

keep legal on the road with your ebike guys.......

 

after the 15mph cut out you can go as fast as your own fitness and the gearing of the bike will allow...on the level relatively easy to get to 20mph even on a 26 kg bike.

downhill..... gearing runs out for me at 30mph but thats plenty fast enough for me on a dutch style town bike !!!!!

 

uphill...well thats a different story but still goes faster than the young guns on the racers up the hills where i am.

 

off road with due consideration for others (or go to a bike dedicated area) then you are currently free to use any level of assist you want.

 

trying to justify taking an ebike on the public road and using it in the full knowledge that it is breaking the law is totally irresponsible.

 

have fun........keep legal..........

regards

Interesting thread. I generally side with Leonard's well put view and try to cycle considerately on all my bikes thus not attracting attention from the law.

 

I can also see Colin's point as antisocial cycling on fast e bikes could hasten the introduction of prohibitive legislation.

 

I almost hope that e bikes don't become more popular so this doesn't happen. In 4 years I've only seen 2 electric bikes and I live in a town of population 60,000. I Just don't think your ever going to get people out of their tin boxes, especially in this weather.

 

In 4 years I've only seen 2 electric bikes and I live in a town of population 60,000.

 

But see my post here.

 

They may be more popular than it appears from the incidence of sightings.

.

But see my post here.

 

They may be more popular than it appears from the incidence of sightings.

.

 

Agreed Flecc. Unfortunately they just don't seem to be catching on in my part of the country, despite me extolling their virtues at every opportunity.