Hi Eddieo, "its only me!" .. Spreadsheet time! .. (you deserve a break!) ..

 

Fork Type: Chromoly, Carbon, Steel, something else?

Fork Space Reqd.: is there a better term for this? ... 100mm / 80 mm .. or something else?

Motor: DAPUSH? ...what wattage, rpm ,,,

Controller: I guess its integrated into the battery dock ...

Throttle: (no?)

Battery: 36v 10Ah Lithium?

 

Charger:

What does it look like?

What does it weigh?

How much does a 2nd charger cost?

Does it have a cut out?

If you were to commute and need to charge the battery for the return leg how long would the battery need to be charged for?

 

Budget: I guess it was about £2k

Actual Cost: I guess it was about £2k

I wish you luck with resisting the temptations of level 5,especially when somebody tries to overtake you.

But Lynda have you tried XT gears? they are sooooooo nice.....

 

My new KTM bike had 8 speed hub gears, crank drive and is approx 20kg (bought with wife in mind)

 

Dont know what poor old NRG will make of it though, with its red nosed seat........ enough to bring on a seizure me finks! poor man seeing nobs everywhere!

 

Including the one who made the above post? You mention that mental health care is available free on the NHS, perhaps you need to seek out some yourself as you seem to have a fixation BTW it wasn't me who identified the similarity to a Phallus mounted on your bike but whatever...your doing a sterling job in that department yourself.

Edited June 10, 201114 yr by NRG

I wish you luck with resisting the temptations of level 5,especially when somebody tries to overtake you.

 

Once the novelty of being able to challenge most riders wears off...I'm sure I will become more sensible.

 

NRG come on! I really like you......But you are right of course, I am now being attacked by nobs from every direction!

Edited June 10, 201114 yr by eddieo

Once the novelty of being able to challenge most riders wears off...I'm sure I will become more sensible.

 

NRG come on! I really like you......But you are right of course, I am now being attacked by nobs from every direction!

On the subject of challenges ... its all very well you poodling round the streets of London listening to Ralph Mc Tell .. why not head south and do some proper riding on Route 23 listening to ... Motorhead? ... we could ride together if you like ... I've got cameras mounted front and back. It should be a doddle for you. All you'll have to do is follow my back wheel

Alan

Hi Eddieo, "its only me!" .. Spreadsheet time! .. (you deserve a break!) ..

 

Fork Type: Chromoly, Carbon, Steel, something else?

Fork Space Reqd.: is there a better term for this? ... 100mm / 80 mm .. or something else?

Motor: DAPUSH? ...what wattage, rpm ,,,

Controller: I guess its integrated into the battery dock ...

Throttle: (no?)

Battery: 36v 10Ah Lithium?

 

Charger:

What does it look like?

What does it weigh?

How much does a 2nd charger cost?

Does it have a cut out?

If you were to commute and need to charge the battery for the return leg how long would the battery need to be charged for?

 

Budget: I guess it was about £2k

Actual Cost: I guess it was about £2k

 

Hi Alan

 

I can answer some of your questions, I will leave Eddie to answer the rest regarding the donor bike.

 

Motor: Dapu 250W 280rpm

Controller: Integrated into the battery dock

Throttle: Micro throttle, three speeds with cruise control

Battery: 37v 10Ah Lithium Polymer

 

Charger:

 

I will come back to you with images but they do have a cut out and a second charger costs £67.00.

 

All the best

 

David

Alan all info on bike spec in link on first thread? (Oop's maybe not.....)

 

Evans Cycles | Specialized Crosstrail LTD Disc 2011 Hybrid Bike | Online Bike Shop

 

 

while this kit I guess will fit many a bike...It really deserves something special and then you have a marriage made in heaven!

 

Today: ride to flatten battery, then I will put on Lidl workstand (great value) sort out front disc brake (I have watched you tube vid twice:confused:) and do another SPIN TEST! (God only knows why)

Edited June 11, 201114 yr by eddieo

Battery Placebo Effect

 

I'm struggling to see how this oddly positioned battery on eddieos bike can improve the handling. In terms of the bike's handling, there are essentially three axis of freedom, pitch, roll and yaw. As far as a bicycle's handling is concerned, pitch and yaw, contribute very little to the feel of a bike. It is the roll axis which will be the most noticeable.

 

The roll, or how quickly the bike leans over when turning in, or stands up when coming out of a corner will be influenced by the moment of inertia in the roll axis. The greater the moment of inertia, the more sluggish the roll / turn in. Since moment of inertia is a function of the mass of the battery and the square of the distance the battery mass is placed from the roll axis (the road), it holds true that the closer that the battery is to the road, the better the handling. Whether it is over the back wheel or inside the frame is of little importance in terms of handling since this only influences pitch.

 

On eddieos bike, the centre of mass of the battery seems high (a long way from the roll axis) possibly higher than a Wisper bike with the battery mounted behind the seat tube. So unless the new in-frame battery is significantly lighter, the handling has to be compromised.

 

I have virtually no experience of riding electric bikes other than a Kalkhoff, but I can't see how the arrangement on eddieo's bike contributes to improved handling and therefore have to wonder if there is a Placebo effect in action.

 

I can see why Bosch have placed the battery on the down tube, it moves the battery's centre of mass closer to the road surface, and it looks better. Remembering that the roll moment of inertia involves the square of the distance from the road surface to the battery, halving that distance yields a 4x improvement.

Edited June 11, 201114 yr by tillson

Semenatics......So why is it that this set up is so wonderful on our awful London roads? and I now dont have to leave the seat over speed bumps etc...handling and progress is in a different league from ANY e bike I have ever tried, and I have tried the best.....It has simply transformed my cycling pleasure and that is not rhetoric.....

 

and yes I to prefer battery on the downtube aka Bosch,BionX and now Stork. But get real, this kit is here, it is a reasonable price and just handles and rides beutifully.....

Indeed Tillson. I was also amused by the notion expressed above that the battery weight is felt in the same place down into the bottom bracket whether within the frame on the seat tube within the frame or on the seatpost facing rearwards. New physics!

 

Of course the battery weight is where the battery is, regardless of what it mounts to. Make the seat post mounting tube long enough out to the rear and the battery weight would lift the front wheel off the ground.

but there is no weight on back end at all with this set up, to me bike is exceptionally well balanced compared to most moped like e bikes

Not with yours Eddie, but as I pointed out, if it's on the seat post facing backwards, the weight is on the back wheel the same as a carrier battery, not down though the seatpost and felt at the bottom bracket.

Not with yours Eddie, but as I pointed out, if it's on the seat post facing backwards, the weight is on the back wheel the same as a carrier battery, not down though the seatpost and felt at the bottom bracket.

 

sorry..getting a bit fed up. No, I agree I dont like it on seat post either. I would prefer it lower in triangle but shape of my frame/downtube does not allow for that...

Don't be fed up Eddie, I wasn't criticising your in frame mounting, just the wrong notion expressed earlier about a seatpost mounting. That applies to all bikes with all forms of seatpost mounted batteries, they still amount to being carrier mountings.

 

Adding a large battery to any normal bike is always going to be a problem involving some sort of copmpromise. Personally I'm happier with the designed rear of seat tube mounting on most e-bikes like Wisper and especially the Panasonic unit bikes, neat and tidy, and I can't see that anything else is an improvement.

Dear Eddie

 

That you for taking the trouble to give so much detail about your new kit. I think it is excellent. The Daahub and bike are well matched.

 

So far as the critics are concerned... Mark 1 versions are rarely just right and doubtless David will take on board the comments and improve the aesthetics a bit. However, as you say, you have it now and are riding it and it is great to ride. Sounds good to me.

 

One specific point - Tilson's comment. As always, an interesting post. However, aren't a couple of points being missed?

 

One is that that so far as roll is concerned, there less of it compared with most rack mounted batteries because the centre of mass of the Daahub is lower where you have it, though of course more than if the battery were lower still.

 

The other is that it is a little cavalier simply to dismiss pitch and yaw. A balanced bike is better to handle or carry than one which is rear or front heavy.

 

Now, when your other toy arrives and you start comparing the two, that will really give people something to discuss...

 

All the best

 

Andy

Thanks Andy for your kind words:)

 

I think KTM Bosch and Specialised/DaaHub are very different bikes (thankfully) I dont think I will like the abrupt loss of assistance dead on 15 mph for a start. but will enjoy the acceleration and hill climbing I am sure (everyone else seems to be!) And my wife will enjoy the more natural crank drive I am sure.....

 

I am willing to take a calculated risk with both bikes, with Wisper I dont have to worry (I know where David lives ) and support simply the best IMO. The Bosch more risky I guess, but drive is a sealed unit (aka Panasonic) and anyway I can always post it back if it came to it.

 

Old bikes just to difficult on new camper. and away to Italy/Slovenia/Croatia for a month in July, so that was my main concern to be sorted for this trip......dont know how many summers you have left do you!. The American red Indians way of counting years by how many summers has always struck a cord.....

 

The American red Indians way of counting years by how many summers has always struck a cord.....

 

Given how few real summers we get in Britain, I'd still be in my twenties!

One is that that so far as roll is concerned, there less of it compared with most rack mounted batteries because the centre of mass of the Daahub is lower where you have it, though of course more than if the battery were lower still.

 

The other is that it is a little cavalier simply to dismiss pitch and yaw. A balanced bike is better to handle or carry than one which is rear or front heavy.

 

From the photograph, I couldn't say for sure if eddieo's battery is lower than a rear rack mounted one. As you mention, if it is lower that will give it an advantage.

 

You have a point regarding pitch and yaw, pitch in particular. Thinking about it a bit more, if the battery is hung out over the back wheel, its mass will experience greater acceleration when the bike bounces over a hump in the road than it would if mounted midway between the front and rear wheel. This is probably confirmed by eddieo's comments regarding the bike being more comfortable to ride over uneaven road surfaces. The Daahub battery looks quite well placed to cope with pitch.

 

I still don't think that the yaw axis is particularly important. Acceleration about this axis is usually quite gentle, so unless the battery is placed at an extreme distance outboard of the bike, it won't have much influence. But, again the Daahub battery is in a good position to cope if it was important.

 

I still think that placing the battery on the down tube would have been better for both the handling and the look of the bike. I'm not a fan of kits, so probably a bit unfairly biased against anything that is overtly a kit. My biased is not based on any knowledge or practical experience, so probably more of a prejudice!

 

I'm not intending to knock eddieo's bike. The most important thing is that he enjoys riding and owning it and the bike certainly seems to be deliver in that regard.

Edited June 11, 201114 yr by tillson

Here is latest SPIN TEST! I set the brake up properly (all on my ownsome...so there!lol)

 

 

MOV00818 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Edited June 11, 201114 yr by eddieo

Not bad Eddie. Hand spinning even hard only gets the wheel to about 4 to 5 mph though. If you spin it up on motor drive it will run to about 26 mph off load and then you can check the power off to stopped spinning time from there. It will probably be well over 60 seconds then.

......dont know how many summers you have left do you!. The American red Indians way of counting years by how many summers has always struck a cord.....

 

May you enjoy many more summers on your dream bike Eddie -sounds as though you've found what a lot of us are looking for

I will try and answer all the questions...

 

 

Oiseaux, probably less noisy then my 705/905 as for drag not a clue I'm afraid.....Also I dont ride an E bike with motor off, whats the point in that? but I will try it later....Why dont you get down to a wisper dealer and try an Alpino, it has the same motor? lol As for a battery in a bag, bloody awful solution and not for me! lol. Its a nicer bike then the KTM I think, spec better as well, but KTM climbs walls apparently, where this probably much nicer on the flats..Yipee!

 

 

 

24th January 2010 13:35 #18 eddieo

 

By "the unit" I guess you mean the battery case? whatever the outcome with this design hickup have you managed to incorporate the battery within the frame do you think?

 

My needs are a little different then most. as when I retire I want to go on much longer motorhome trips. electricity for charging is not always available so a bike that I can detach the battery from, and ride as a normal bike has significant advantages. Plus I can buy a high spec alfina hub bike, that should keep the overall weight below 20kg another significant factor when motorhoming (weight always an issue)

 

And there was I thinking that you didn't see the point in riding with the motor turned off !!

Oiseaux, Have you seen latest spin test a few threads back?

 

You get wheel in a bag with this kit. its easy to change wheel back to original, remove battery then you have a normal bike again. If you knew me, you would know that on my summer trip to Italy last year 905 SE failed and it essentially ruined the cycling element of our Holiday, and I go away to cycle.... This was another reason for requiring something like the DaaHub setup, so that I wont ever be stuck again.

 

Have you not heard of inverters? charge as you drive? 2.5 hrs to partial full charge aparently...with a couple of decent leisure batteries you could recharge a bike easily enough when parked. "battery master" to protect engine battery? Even some Aires in France have electricity these days....

 

I have bought a Hi spec 8 speed hub geared bike as well (KTM Macina Cross) But I happen to prefer the XT gears as fitted to most high end bikes.......

 

I still see little point in buying an electric bike and riding unassisted though.....Maybe the Cytonex a better fit for you, but either of these kits deserves a decent donor bike..

Edited June 11, 201114 yr by eddieo

Eddieo.

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to carry out both tests. I'm impressed actually by the spin time achieved. Now, if only I could live with that battery position. In your opinion could it be fitted onto a standard rear rack?

Thank you.

Regards

vectra

Eddieo.

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to carry out both tests. I'm impressed actually by the spin time achieved. Now, if only I could live with that battery position. In your opinion could it be fitted onto a standard rear rack?

Thank you.

Regards

vectra

 

Happy to help!

 

While I except battery style/position not for everyone...Personaly I think sticking it on a rear rack criminal or at the least pretty daft after all the thought that has gone into it...., But thats just me.

 

You could fit it on seat stem just above rear rack very easily, and it is designed for this, but not for me! Problem fitting straight on rack is the docking arrangement, cant see how it would work.......I have always admired the BionX so to me this is an improvement, not as pretty for sure, but far more reasonably priced and UK/NZ design with excellent support....