It comes with a battery that you could parallel with the original battery. Double the range or double the hill climbing ability with a shunt mod.

 

Or Series the batteries and get 30 mph ;-)

You'll need to change the controller though...

 

Yes, but I want a bike which looks stock while performing well on hills and have several people interested in the same configuration who aren't modders. Being able to simply swap the battery out (and perhaps upgrade the motor controller) seems like the best all-round solution...

 

I have a new standard bike and a test rat. When I find the right setup, I'll test it on the rat and if ok apply it to the new bike and sell it to a waiting friend. Easy enough to sell spare 24v batteries on eBay...

 

A 36v pack seems the best choice from the experience of others on the thread. Fordulike stripped his motor gears running higher voltages...

Edited January 31, 201214 yr by evendine

Would be interested, yes - thanks Barry...

 

Are using it with an otherwise stock setup?

 

Yes absolutely stock, my Bearprint is pretty much identical to the Freego Ebike and the parts are also similar to those on the Juicybikes all made in the same factory as far as I know.

There are some differences between the batteries - the Chinese LiFePO4 battery has the connector pins the other way round for the + & - terminals and has an extra 2 prongs (4 altogether) which I think holds the battery firmer to the bottom plate.

For the long term if this battery works well and lasts well a future replacement would just be the battery only so cheaper again now that I have a charger, bottom plate and slide rail.

I had to solder bullet connectors onto the wires to connect to the controller which wasn't too difficult.

If the battery lasts and performs according to expectations given by Dave at Kudos it could turn out to be a good investment. Time will tell.

I will try and "PM" you with the Chinese vendors email address.

 

Barry.

A slight aside, but strikes me if the throttle set an upper power limit, it would be much more useful than at present - allowing you to both conserve batt life and determine how much energy you need to put in via the pedals, particularly if you're running uprated power. Even with a shunt mod 24v setup, it's noticeable that you have to try to 'keep up' when peddling (esp on the flat).

 

Anyone know if it's possible to wire the throttle set-point into the motor-controller in this way, or is it hard-wired? Maybe custom controllers would allow it?

A slight aside, but strikes me if the throttle set an upper power limit, it would be much more useful than at present - allowing you to both conserve batt life and determine how much energy you need to put in via the pedals, particularly if you're running uprated power. Even with a shunt mod 24v setup, it's noticeable that you have to try to 'keep up' when peddling (esp on the flat).

 

Anyone know if it's possible to wire the throttle set-point into the motor-controller in this way, or is it hard-wired? Maybe custom controllers would allow it?

It's not possible tochange anything in the normal conrollers that you get with ready-made ebikes, As far as i can figure out, the throttles effectively act as speed controllers because the current always increases as you slow down with the throttle held constant. It's more complicated than that because the max current given is less at half throttle than full throttle. If you want to reduce the speed at which your motor assists to conserve power, although i haven't tried it, I reckon a 10K potentiometer wired between the throttle signal wire and the ground should do the job, if you can't hold the throttle constamt at less than full. Unfortunately, there's not much you can do about the pedal sensor because the controller is counting pulses from it in most cases.

Why don't you make a cruise control like mine, then you can go at whatever speed you want up to maximum?

Why don't you make a cruise control like mine, then you can go at whatever speed you want up to maximum?

 

I suppose that's what i meant by the above really, but using the throttle to set the cruise (while peddling) speed dynamically, as it were. Have you actually implemented a working cruise control

 

Does the throttle setting actually effect the output power when peddling (if it's set above zero)? I tend to use one or the other usually...

Edited February 1, 201214 yr by evendine

I suppose that's what i meant by the above really, but using the throttle to set the cruise (while peddling) speed dynamically, as it were. Have you actually implemented a working cruise control

 

Does the throttle setting actually effect the output power when peddling (if it's set above zero)? I tend to use one or the other usually...

Mine works like this:

There's a three position switch that switches between cruise and normal throttle. In the middle position, neither are connected, so it works on the pedal sensor. Whatever speed you've selected with the cruise control knob is the speed the bike goes to when you throw the switch - whether you pedal or not. If you set a low speed - say 12mph - then, when you pedal past 12mph, you're on your own. The power tails off soon after 12mph, so you can go a long way with hardly any battery. When a hill comes, the bike starts to slow down, and when it goes below 12mph, the controller feeds in power in an attempt to maintain that speed. The slower you go, the more power is given, I think most cheap controllers work like this.

 

You cannot use this cruise control without brake cut-offs because it would be dangerous and even then, it's easy to forget it's on and let go the brake, wherupon the bike kicks forward with full power because it's present speed is way below the set speed.

 

I don't use my throttle anymore. I start off with the switch in the middle position for pedal sensor control only, and as soon as I'm rolling, I switch to cruise, and dial in the speed I want to go - normally 15mph. After that I use the brakes to control the speed. The brake switch comes on before the brakes have any effect, so the brake levers are like a sort of on/off switch, which is useful when things get a bit tight - pedestrians, etc.

 

It costs about £5 to make the cruise control. You need one 3 position switch, one 10k linear pot and a little box to put them in. You can get all of them from Maplin. You can see the control on the left handlebar in my picture of the Speedict in the Speedict thread. Here's the wiring schematic:

 

http://i451.photobucket.com/albums/qq236/d8veh/Giant%20BPM/potmod.jpg

Like the concept - better than my idea, as you don't have to hold the throttle in a particular position to maintain the set-point, which might be problematic...

 

You cannot use this cruise control without brake cut-offs because it would be dangerous and even then, it's easy to forget it's on and let go the brake, wherupon the bike kicks forward with full power because it's present speed is way below the set speed.

 

Would be good to find a way to solve this problem...

 

When in cruise mode, how about using a latching relay which is set by opening the throttle and reset by the brakes being applied? The contacts would make / break the green set-point line between the pot wiper and the switch in the diagram, giving a default of pedal sensor mode after braking. To return to cruise mode, simply open the throttle sufficiently to close the relay contacts

Edited February 1, 201214 yr by evendine

This latching relay from Maplin would probably do the job if you added a zener diode matched to the coil voltage across the coil to limit voltage (+ provide BEMF protection) and a current limiting resistor in series with the signal line in each case:

 

2A Miniature DPDT Latching Relay : General Purpose Relays : Maplin Electronics

 

Maybe add a tri-colour LED to indicate mode?:

 

http://www.maplin.co.uk/tri-colour-led-26361

 

This is the best deal I've found for a 36v 10Ah LiFePO4 pack with BMS and charger so far @ £164 delivered:

 

36V 10AH LIFEPO4 Lithium Battery electric bicycle bike | eBay

 

They provide a free custom service apparently, so perhaps they could put a pack together that would drop straight into an existing Cyclamatic case?

Edited February 5, 201214 yr by evendine

36v LiFePO4 drop in batteries...

 

A quick update on 36v LiFePO4 drop-in batteries. The one I mentioned earlier in the thread which was labelled as LiFePO4 on eBay turned out to be Li(NiCoMn)O2 (spotted that the cell voltage was wrong, let them know and they updated the listing):

 

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

 

I've been in discussions with Fullriver over the last few weeks and they seem to be a professional outfit. They designed a custom battery pack for me for another project during that period and are offering a range of QA / certification options, which seems like a good sign.

 

We also discussed their prismatic cell based drop-in replacement 36v 10Ah LiFePO4 pack:

 

http://www.fentbattery.com/Upload/LeSeno.Com_201129191721414.pdf

 

...and they have offered me a sample with charger for £208 delivered - much the best price I've been able to find. The lead time is around a month, unfortunately, but should be worth it if it's a quality product. Any thoughts appreciated - it's about twice what I paid for the bike and I'm a bit worried about dealing direct with a Chinese company...

Edited February 21, 201214 yr by evendine

The price seems OK. I don't know the supplier, in which casee I'd be cautious like you. QA certificates can be fake, so don't take too much notice of them unless you check with the certifying body. As long as you pay with Paypal, you'll have a l;evel of protection, but if the battery goes wrong, you have to send it back at your cost to get your money back from Paypal. If it gets damaged in transit, you should be able to get it sent back FOC as long as you hassle the carrier. Also, there's a small chance you might get hit for duty.

Thanks for the advice - will certainly insist on using Paypal, if I decide to go for it...

 

I have searched all over for a supplier of an alternative equivalent at anything near the price, but no luck. They have been courteous/professional during my dealings with them so far and their marketing dept understand English/tech well, which is seems a good sign...

 

They even supplied a CAD rendering of the custom pack, which suggests they really do have a tech dept.

That's proberly one of the best read's iv'e had in a while, Makes me wish i see this thread before i bought my bike, My father inlaw has Cyclamatic, and has had it for a while now, If only he would let me take my hands to it ........

 

Love the cruise control, My infineon XPD program say's something about cruise but i don't think i have that option on my board, I have a three speed switch comming, I may see if i can use it for that ?..But thanks for sharing this thread, Awsome stuff!!!....

Welcome mxer125!

 

I'm a big fan of the thread too - lots of good Cyclamatic-beast-style advice here ;0)

 

Maybe just swap your dad's bike out for a while, do a few mods and then swap it back. He'll suddenly think he's much fitter for sure! :0)

Edited February 22, 201214 yr by evendine

DC to DC step up convertors...

 

Have been thinking about a cheaper alternative to buying a 36v battery based on the use of low-cost, high efficiency DC to DC converters...

 

There are some 24 to 36v devices around, but moderately priced examples are rather limited on power, e.g.:

 

Zahn Electronics, Inc. Products - DCDC24/36/280 step up DC/DC converters

 

(around £65, but not sure 280W is enough).

 

Apparently, it is possible to arrange such devices in series / parallel (comment appreciated on this point), so it may be possible to use 12v -> 36v devices: 2S on the input side and 2P on the output. The following units are 180W, waterproofed, heat-sinked and about £32 delivered:

 

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace

 

Does anyone know the max / peak sustained current delivery capacity of the standard 24v Cyclamatic battery?

Bearprint LiFePO4 Cyclamatic compatible batteries...

 

I've been in touch with Bearprint (Bearprint Electric Bikes - Folding, Step Through, City & Sport Electric Bikes) about their 36v 10Ah and 18Ah Cyclamatic compatible drop-in batteries - here's the pricing info:

 

36v 10amp LiFePO4 type: £325.00

36v 18amp LiFePO4 type: £449.00 (same form factor, but longer)

 

Both have a warranty of 18 months...

 

The prices include a charger but not delivery, which they will quote on according to location. New stock expected in early April.

 

So I suppose it's a toss-up between taking a chance on the £200 all-in Chinese supplier and waiting several weeks for delivery and the safer, if more expensive Bearprint option, who will deliver relatively quickly and provide a decent warranty...

 

Thanks to bazwaldo for the Bearprint tip.

Think i'd just opt for a 36v 10amp hour battery from a local UK supplier and then jam the cells into the old case. £200 all in and some tinkering.

@Scottyf:

Can you recommend a UK LiFePO4 battery supplier who'll provide a pack which will fit in the standard case?

There's a couple of suppliers on this very forum that do batteries around the £200 mark for Lifepo4.

Doubt it would fit directly in the case but would require some tinkering on your behalf.

Kudo's actually supplier 10ah 36v batteries...

Ah - so are the Kudos ones LiFePO4, do you know? Thought the 36v ones are Li-ion? (I see they do a 24v LiFePO4 drop-in)

Edited February 29, 201214 yr by evendine

Throttle settings and pedal boost...

 

I was experimenting with throttle settings today (thinking about d8veh's cruise control) and seem to have made an interesting discovery. If you hold the throttle open as well as peddle, it seems that max power is higher than on peddle assist alone

 

Not sure why that would be the case - suggests the throttle setting overrides the max peddling setting. Could this be something to do with the shunt mod (mine has it)? I'm tempted to add a boost switch that does the equivalent of opening the throttle fully - basically bypassing the throttle - but I guess that would have the same problems d8veh mentioned with the cruise control re, braking. Maybe better to just open the throttle when more power's needed...

I don't think that it's anything to do with the shunt mod. I've had a couple of bikes where the throttle gives more power than the pedal sensor.

Yes, just fitted a new thumb throttle to my Peugeot bike replacing a half grip one and it now gives a bit more speed if used over the pedelec... about ~1mph...its must be outputting a slightly higher voltage.

That's interesting!

 

@d8veh: when constructing the cruise control, i guess you measured the voltage the throttle presents to the motor controller - is it in the range 0->batt voltage, or is the higher end voltage lower than batt voltage? Just thinking it might be possible to boost the throttle output voltage and up the top speed that way?

Edited March 8, 201214 yr by evendine

New low cost 'drop-in' battery supplier...

 

Some good news on the 'drop-in' battery front. After months of searching, I've finally found a major European supplier who'll provide a 6 month warranty with very competitive pricing

 

Here are the one-off prices, including charger and delivery:

 

LiMnO2 - 36v - 10Ah: £169

LiMnO2 - 36v - 14Ah: £240

 

LiFePO4 - 36v - 10Ah: £203

LiFePO4 - 36v - 12Ah: £247

 

Think I'll be ordering a 36v/10Ah LiFePO4 in the near future!

Edited March 8, 201214 yr by evendine

Some good news on the 'drop-in' battery front. After months of searching, I've finally found a major European supplier who'll provide a 6 month warranty with very competitive pricing

 

Here are the one-off prices, including charger and delivery:

 

LiMnO2 - 36v - 10Ah: £169

LiMnO2 - 36v - 14Ah: £240

 

LiFePO4 - 36v - 10Ah: £203

LiFePO4 - 36v - 12Ah: £247

 

Think I'll be ordering a 36v/10Ah LiFePO4 in the near future!

 

Tell us the secret! Who is he?

 

@Evendine. The cruise control takes the throttle supply, which is about 4.5v and splits it to anything from 0 to 4.5v. Throttles that I've measures are closer to 4v max, so it might give a boost, but it would be easier to solder the shunt and get a significant boost if that;s what you want.