Wisper DaaHub arrives - what a bike!

[kitchenman]

Hi Eddieo, "its only me!" .. Spreadsheet time! .. (you deserve a break!) ..

Fork Type: Chromoly, Carbon, Steel, something else?
Fork Space Reqd.: is there a better term for this? ... 100mm / 80 mm .. or something else?
Motor: DAPUSH? ...what wattage, rpm ,,,
Controller: I guess its integrated into the battery dock ...
Throttle: (no?)
Battery: 36v 10Ah Lithium?

Charger:
What does it look like?
What does it weigh?
How much does a 2nd charger cost?
Does it have a cut out?
If you were to commute and need to charge the battery for the return leg how long would the battery need to be charged for?

Budget: I guess it was about £2k
Actual Cost: I guess it was about £2k

 

[fishingpaul]

I wish you luck with resisting the temptations of level 5,especially when somebody tries to overtake you.

 

[NRG]

But Lynda have you tried XT gears? they are sooooooo nice.....

My new KTM bike had 8 speed hub gears, crank drive and is approx 20kg (bought with wife in mind)

Dont know what poor old NRG will make of it though, with its red nosed seat........ enough to bring on a seizure me finks! poor man seeing nobs everywhere!

Including the one who made the above post? You mention that mental health care is available free on the NHS, perhaps you need to seek out some yourself as you seem to have a fixation BTW it wasn't me who identified the similarity to a Phallus mounted on your bike but whatever...your doing a sterling job in that department yourself.

 

[eddieo]

I wish you luck with resisting the temptations of level 5,especially when somebody tries to overtake you.

Once the novelty of being able to challenge most riders wears off...I'm sure I will become more sensible.

NRG come on! I really like you......But you are right of course, I am now being attacked by nobs from every direction!

 

[kitchenman]

Once the novelty of being able to challenge most riders wears off...I'm sure I will become more sensible.

NRG come on! I really like you......But you are right of course, I am now being attacked by nobs from every direction!

On the subject of challenges ... its all very well you poodling round the streets of London listening to Ralph Mc Tell .. why not head south and do some proper riding on Route 23 listening to ... Motorhead? ... we could ride together if you like ... I've got cameras mounted front and back. It should be a doddle for you. All you'll have to do is follow my back wheel
Alan

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Hi Eddieo, "its only me!" .. Spreadsheet time! .. (you deserve a break!) ..

Fork Type: Chromoly, Carbon, Steel, something else?
Fork Space Reqd.: is there a better term for this? ... 100mm / 80 mm .. or something else?
Motor: DAPUSH? ...what wattage, rpm ,,,
Controller: I guess its integrated into the battery dock ...
Throttle: (no?)
Battery: 36v 10Ah Lithium?

Charger:
What does it look like?
What does it weigh?
How much does a 2nd charger cost?
Does it have a cut out?
If you were to commute and need to charge the battery for the return leg how long would the battery need to be charged for?

Budget: I guess it was about £2k
Actual Cost: I guess it was about £2k

Hi Alan

I can answer some of your questions, I will leave Eddie to answer the rest regarding the donor bike.

Motor: Dapu 250W 280rpm
Controller: Integrated into the battery dock
Throttle: Micro throttle, three speeds with cruise control
Battery: 37v 10Ah Lithium Polymer

Charger:

I will come back to you with images but they do have a cut out and a second charger costs £67.00.

All the best

David

 

[eddieo]

Alan all info on bike spec in link on first thread? (Oop's maybe not.....)

Evans Cycles | Specialized Crosstrail LTD Disc 2011 Hybrid Bike | Online Bike Shop


while this kit I guess will fit many a bike...It really deserves something special and then you have a marriage made in heaven!

Today: ride to flatten battery, then I will put on Lidl workstand (great value) sort out front disc brake (I have watched you tube vid twice) and do another SPIN TEST! (God only knows why)

 

[tillson]

Battery Placebo Effect

I'm struggling to see how this oddly positioned battery on eddieos bike can improve the handling. In terms of the bike's handling, there are essentially three axis of freedom, pitch, roll and yaw. As far as a bicycle's handling is concerned, pitch and yaw, contribute very little to the feel of a bike. It is the roll axis which will be the most noticeable.

The roll, or how quickly the bike leans over when turning in, or stands up when coming out of a corner will be influenced by the moment of inertia in the roll axis. The greater the moment of inertia, the more sluggish the roll / turn in. Since moment of inertia is a function of the mass of the battery and the square of the distance the battery mass is placed from the roll axis (the road), it holds true that the closer that the battery is to the road, the better the handling. Whether it is over the back wheel or inside the frame is of little importance in terms of handling since this only influences pitch.

On eddieos bike, the centre of mass of the battery seems high (a long way from the roll axis) possibly higher than a Wisper bike with the battery mounted behind the seat tube. So unless the new in-frame battery is significantly lighter, the handling has to be compromised.

I have virtually no experience of riding electric bikes other than a Kalkhoff, but I can't see how the arrangement on eddieo's bike contributes to improved handling and therefore have to wonder if there is a Placebo effect in action.

I can see why Bosch have placed the battery on the down tube, it moves the battery's centre of mass closer to the road surface, and it looks better. Remembering that the roll moment of inertia involves the square of the distance from the road surface to the battery, halving that distance yields a 4x improvement.

 

[eddieo]

Semenatics......So why is it that this set up is so wonderful on our awful London roads? and I now dont have to leave the seat over speed bumps etc...handling and progress is in a different league from ANY e bike I have ever tried, and I have tried the best.....It has simply transformed my cycling pleasure and that is not rhetoric.....

and yes I to prefer battery on the downtube aka Bosch,BionX and now Stork. But get real, this kit is here, it is a reasonable price and just handles and rides beutifully.....

 

[flecc]

Indeed Tillson. I was also amused by the notion expressed above that the battery weight is felt in the same place down into the bottom bracket whether within the frame on the seat tube within the frame or on the seatpost facing rearwards. New physics!

Of course the battery weight is where the battery is, regardless of what it mounts to. Make the seat post mounting tube long enough out to the rear and the battery weight would lift the front wheel off the ground.

 

[eddieo]

but there is no weight on back end at all with this set up, to me bike is exceptionally well balanced compared to most moped like e bikes

 

[flecc]

Not with yours Eddie, but as I pointed out, if it's on the seat post facing backwards, the weight is on the back wheel the same as a carrier battery, not down though the seatpost and felt at the bottom bracket.

 

[eddieo]

Not with yours Eddie, but as I pointed out, if it's on the seat post facing backwards, the weight is on the back wheel the same as a carrier battery, not down though the seatpost and felt at the bottom bracket.

sorry..getting a bit fed up. No, I agree I dont like it on seat post either. I would prefer it lower in triangle but shape of my frame/downtube does not allow for that...

 

[flecc]

Don't be fed up Eddie, I wasn't criticising your in frame mounting, just the wrong notion expressed earlier about a seatpost mounting. That applies to all bikes with all forms of seatpost mounted batteries, they still amount to being carrier mountings.

Adding a large battery to any normal bike is always going to be a problem involving some sort of copmpromise. Personally I'm happier with the designed rear of seat tube mounting on most e-bikes like Wisper and especially the Panasonic unit bikes, neat and tidy, and I can't see that anything else is an improvement.

 

[AndyOfTheSouth]

Dear Eddie

That you for taking the trouble to give so much detail about your new kit. I think it is excellent. The Daahub and bike are well matched.

So far as the critics are concerned... Mark 1 versions are rarely just right and doubtless David will take on board the comments and improve the aesthetics a bit. However, as you say, you have it now and are riding it and it is great to ride. Sounds good to me.

One specific point - Tilson's comment. As always, an interesting post. However, aren't a couple of points being missed?

One is that that so far as roll is concerned, there less of it compared with most rack mounted batteries because the centre of mass of the Daahub is lower where you have it, though of course more than if the battery were lower still.

The other is that it is a little cavalier simply to dismiss pitch and yaw. A balanced bike is better to handle or carry than one which is rear or front heavy.

Now, when your other toy arrives and you start comparing the two, that will really give people something to discuss...

All the best

Andy

 

[eddieo]

Thanks Andy for your kind words

I think KTM Bosch and Specialised/DaaHub are very different bikes (thankfully) I dont think I will like the abrupt loss of assistance dead on 15 mph for a start. but will enjoy the acceleration and hill climbing I am sure (everyone else seems to be!) And my wife will enjoy the more natural crank drive I am sure.....

I am willing to take a calculated risk with both bikes, with Wisper I dont have to worry (I know where David lives ) and support simply the best IMO. The Bosch more risky I guess, but drive is a sealed unit (aka Panasonic) and anyway I can always post it back if it came to it.

Old bikes just to difficult on new camper. and away to Italy/Slovenia/Croatia for a month in July, so that was my main concern to be sorted for this trip......dont know how many summers you have left do you!. The American red Indians way of counting years by how many summers has always struck a cord.....

 

[flecc]

The American red Indians way of counting years by how many summers has always struck a cord.....

Given how few real summers we get in Britain, I'd still be in my twenties!

 

[tillson]

One is that that so far as roll is concerned, there less of it compared with most rack mounted batteries because the centre of mass of the Daahub is lower where you have it, though of course more than if the battery were lower still.

The other is that it is a little cavalier simply to dismiss pitch and yaw. A balanced bike is better to handle or carry than one which is rear or front heavy.

From the photograph, I couldn't say for sure if eddieo's battery is lower than a rear rack mounted one. As you mention, if it is lower that will give it an advantage.

You have a point regarding pitch and yaw, pitch in particular. Thinking about it a bit more, if the battery is hung out over the back wheel, its mass will experience greater acceleration when the bike bounces over a hump in the road than it would if mounted midway between the front and rear wheel. This is probably confirmed by eddieo's comments regarding the bike being more comfortable to ride over uneaven road surfaces. The Daahub battery looks quite well placed to cope with pitch.

I still don't think that the yaw axis is particularly important. Acceleration about this axis is usually quite gentle, so unless the battery is placed at an extreme distance outboard of the bike, it won't have much influence. But, again the Daahub battery is in a good position to cope if it was important.

I still think that placing the battery on the down tube would have been better for both the handling and the look of the bike. I'm not a fan of kits, so probably a bit unfairly biased against anything that is overtly a kit. My biased is not based on any knowledge or practical experience, so probably more of a prejudice!

I'm not intending to knock eddieo's bike. The most important thing is that he enjoys riding and owning it and the bike certainly seems to be deliver in that regard.

 

[eddieo]

Here is latest SPIN TEST! I set the brake up properly (all on my ownsome...so there!lol)


MOV00818 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

 

[flecc]

Not bad Eddie. Hand spinning even hard only gets the wheel to about 4 to 5 mph though. If you spin it up on motor drive it will run to about 26 mph off load and then you can check the power off to stopped spinning time from there. It will probably be well over 60 seconds then.