A Crank Call

[eddieo]

Well said Lynda

yet another numpty with a convenient and selective view of the facts

and to think I made not one but two videos for you when you wanted to know about the wisper freewheel...

Now you have joined the knockers without any justification. Say what you want by all means, but dont be selective and please read the whole thread before jumping on the bandwagon

 

[NRG]

My my we are a ......cranky lot......



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[funkylyn]

..........

 

[lemmy]

. As to the artificial restriction of power on the Panasonic, this will eventually spell the system's doom as buyers realise that they are being cheated out of the full power available just when the are tired out and really need it.
Throttles are a must.

Blimey! I'm 67 years old and even after riding 10 miles without electric power and then switching it in on normal boost for 30 miles more, I've never felt the need for more than the 1:1 boost on my Kalkhoff Tasman.

Strikes me that if you feel the Panasonic system is cheating you out of power, you might be better off with a motorcycle. That is meant as a serious observation, not a flip one. I think people sometimes forget there are many, many alternatives to e-bikes if someone feels they don't have sufficient power.

 

[mike killay]

Blimey! I'm 67 years old and even after riding 10 miles without electric power and then switching it in on normal boost for 30 miles more, I've never felt the need for more than the 1:1 boost on my Kalkhoff Tasman.

Strikes me that if you feel the Panasonic system is cheating you out of power, you might be better off with a motorcycle. That is meant as a serious observation, not a flip one. I think people sometimes forget there are many, many alternatives to e-bikes if someone feels they don't have sufficient power.

Well I could never ride 10 miles without help. Bet you couldn't either if you saw the hills around here. Point is, the Tonaro does do as it says on the box, turn the engine on and if you want it, you get full power whether pedalling or not.

 

[Graeme]

lemmy and Mike, so glad you've found bikes that are meeting your needs are are perfect for your individual circumstances.

Just to say, no I'm not Phil from Powerpedals in disguise!
I'm just interested in getting value for money and a fair deal on a Crank Drive that's it. The More choice the better, the more competition the better.
As far as this thread is concerned, it's been virtual tumbleweed time re: suppliers apart from Tim from 50 cycles who ventured forth with an honest, personal and negative evaluation of a Tonaro, which seems to me from his description had some kind of fault, unsure of which model. Kudos also entered the discussion a little...Everyone else...? Tumbleweed! Is this s sign that they are quaking in their cycle shoes?!
The Tonaro's are not to everyone's liking but neither is the Wisper or the Stokemonkey! (Please don't bash me for speaking of the Wisper and the Stokemonkey in the same breath! I know some of you may find that laughable or worse )

Some suggest that the Tonaro's are becoming so popular simply because of their relatively cheap price compared to other Crank Drive makes...well, yes that's my point, there IS a market for Crank Drive bikes at a reasonable price AND there is more choice coming in our way from Tonaro and Powerpedals. products Which is I suggest good news.

Some suggest its old technology, which it is 1999 I believe, but it works, so why try to reinvent the wheel?

 

[eddieo]

and that is where where we will never agree...I dont think spending £2000 on a bike is unresonable, many kids spending twice as much on conventional bikes believe me! I just find some of the thinking on here rather pathetic. You pays for what you get in this life, and I dont see the tonero as any kind of bargain...far from it!

That it meets some peoples needs is great......But dont go pretending something is "special" when it is abundantly clear it is nothing of the kind....

 

[flecc]

I don't think the age in years is relevant Graeme, what is relevant is the fact that this kind of system dropped out of favour with most e-bikers a long time ago, the consensus being that it's too moped like, an opinion strongly shared by the hugely experienced A to B Magazine people. The crank drive winner at that time and since has been the alternative type of system exemplified by the Panasonic unit.

That said, there is a market and therefore a demand for this type of bike, so it's welcome. However, the main reasons for their good reception within the crank drive market are that they have independent throttle control, and enjoy a very low relative price. Even with the low price, take away the throttle and make them pedelec and much of the current popularity would melt away.

Nothing I've posted in this thread has been other than simple undeniable facts of these sorts, so I'm disappointed that you class my posts with some others as mere tumbleweed.

 

[Graeme]

and that is where where we will never agree...I dont think spending £2000 on a bike is unresonable, many kids spending twice as much on conventional bikes believe me! I just find some of the thinking on here rather pathetic. You pays for what you get in this life, and I dont see the tonero as any kind of bargain...far from it!

That it meets some peoples needs is great......But dont go pretending something is "special" when it is abundantly clear it is nothing of the kind....

eddieo
Then we will never agree! that's perfectly fine, no problemo bud, we can agree to disagree that's what sharing on this forum is about isn't it? Sharing our views and experiences in a respectful manner...and respecting other peoples views, unless they are technically or factually wrong. To describe someone 'thoughts' on a product as 'pathetic' is fairly meaningless and less than respectful and unhelpful, yet not surprising.

I don't see anyone pretending that the Tonaro is something special, its a bike that a growing number of people seem to be very happy with, as simple as that. I suspect that the people who suppose that their brand of bike is 'special' and superior are not Tonaro owners, (because they are not! eddieo isn't that right ;-) ). I just sense relaxed enjoyment from many Tonaro owners.
I have to respectfully disagree with you one one point, you don't always get what that you pay for, see the story of the The Emperors New Clothes for a fine example of a silly man thinking he has something really special when in fact it was quite literally 'nothing' special at all.

 

[indalo]

you don't always get what that you pay for, see the story of the The Emperors New Clothes for a fine example of a silly man thinking he has something really special when in fact it was quite literally 'nothing' special at all.

.......and he who dies with the most toys is nonetheless...dead!


I've got loads of silly old sayings that are completely meaningless for the most part......just like this discussion about Tonaro bikes. A bit of perspective and a degree of tolerance wouldn't go amiss.

Indalo

 

[Graeme]

I always look out for your posts flecc, and read them with interest and have learned a great deal from you. I didn't realise you were a retailer and certainly did not and would not describe your posts as Tumbleweed. I was referring to the lack of posts from retailers. I would just have liked their in put on why they favour hub over that's all.

The Tonaro product has made a comeback for a reason, as you have pointed out, there is a market for them. Which simply means there is a market for reasonably priced Crank Drive Bikes that do a decent job.
Yes take away the throttle and I'd not want one, throttles are very helpful to some people and help make the Tonaro what it is.

 

[Scottyf]

I dont think spending £2000 on a bike is unresonable

That in its self is an opinion. Alot of people will spend more on standard bikes. But it depends on your circumstance and what you can afford.

 

[eddieo]

We have just returned last week from spending 4.5 weeks riding our bikes in Slovenia/Croatia and Italy...Believe me I know how to relax and get enjoyment from my hobby thanks........

and there you go again trying to justify a poor choice of bike by making out the tonaro as some kind of bargain!lol when time and time again others more experienced then I have repeatedly pointed out that it is clearly not....

Sorry, wrong again, when it comes to bikes, electric or not you most certainly get what you pay for...

and dont go mistaking my exasperation for rudeness. I have already pointed out clearly in this thread, it was when your mate attacked me personally without any legitimacy that things started to slide? Only Flecc has been gracious enough to recognise this fact.

 

[Graeme]

.......

I've got loads of silly old sayings that are completely meaningless for the most part......just like this discussion about Tonaro bikes. A bit of perspective and a degree of tolerance wouldn't go amiss.

Indalo

Wow! another mildly insulting post calling for tolerance! Interesting..

 

[Scottyf]

Its not a poor choice of bike. Its just not your choice.

Stop being a nob head.

 

[Graeme]

Its not a poor choice of bike. Its just not your choice.

Stop being a nob head.

Now Scottyf, that really is very perceptive, I agree with your fist comment, couldn't possibly comment on the second.

 

[flecc]

I was referring to the lack of posts from retailers. I would just have liked their in put on why they favour hub over that's all.

I'm not a retailer Graeme, though I have spent years in the cycle, motorcycle and motor trades on everything with wheels from bikes to trucks.

I don't think retailers necessarily prefer hub motors, it's more a question of availability and prices. It's always been possible for them to source hub motor bikes at prices that allow them a decent margin, and at times almost impossible to source any crank drive bikes.

As you've seen from the many crank drives now, that is changing and there is another exciting development on the way which must remain under wraps at present.

 

[tillson]

and there you go again trying to justify a poor choice of bike by making out the tonaro as some kind of bargain!lol

I don't know if the Tonaro is a poor choice of bike. It may be an increadably poor choice, or on the other hand it could represent excellent value for money. I just don't know, because like you I've never owned one.

All that we can say for sure is that the people who own them seem more than happy with their purchase. The bikes seem to do the job for which they were bought, the after sales support seems to be good, the replacement batteries / spares are a reasonable price and the indications are that reliability is high. On the downside, if it is a downside, the motor technology seems to be 10 years old. However it would appear that the motor is still capable of turning electrical energy into mechanical energy and delivering it to the back wheel, so what's the problem there?

The above are all pieces of information that I have picked up from a range of different users, owners and people with knowledge of various bikes and power systems. I don't see how the Tonaro can be classed as a poor choice of bike. It has to be worthy of consideration and trial for any prospective bike owner, you just can't dismiss it. If it doesn't suit a persons requirements, that's fine, but you can't deny that it seems to please many satisfied customers. That's an undeniable fact.

 

[eddieo]

But it is more moped then bike as many have pointed out, and I respect the opinions of the more sceptical among us, more than the frankly peculiar and effervescent rantings of the likes of scarrebri...

That it fills a certain niche and has found a position for itself in the market all well and good. I also believe that many of them would be happier with a better class of bike. Things have really moved on you know.....

 

[Graeme]

eddieo
I think your Bosch is complete rubbish! Trash, less useful than an ash tray on a motor bike! Overpriced, overhyped and over here.
But, if you're ever thinking of selling it give me a shout!
I might be interested... ;-)