Can this happen when using your ebike?

[Teejay]

Oops, crossed with Lemmy's post

 

[onmebike]

Thanks for the geography lesson guys, I never doubted it was in Ireland.
I did say I'm no expert, the point I'm making is, the outcome of the case came as just as much of a shock to the Irish as it would do if it happened here and as far as I can see, theres nothing to say it can't.
The law here only state's maximum penalties for cycling offences[Currently £2500.00 I believe], would a driving ban be considered to be greater than the current maximum penalty?
I'm not even sure if a driving ban include's e-cycling, it appears it could well do.

 

[flecc]

I'm not even sure if a driving ban include's e-cycling, it appears it could well do.

No it doesn't, legal e-bikes are not motor vehicles under our road traffic acts, unlike in Ireland where they are.

You cannot lose your licence for an offence while riding a legal e-bike, just as you cannot be banned from riding an e-bike.
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[rog_london]

Thanks for the geography lesson guys, I never doubted it was in Ireland.
I did say I'm no expert, the point I'm making is, the outcome of the case came as just as much of a shock to the Irish as it would do if it happened here and as far as I can see, theres nothing to say it can't.
The law here only state's maximum penalties for cycling offences[Currently £2500.00 I believe], would a driving ban be considered to be greater than the current maximum penalty?
I'm not even sure if a driving ban include's e-cycling, it appears it could well do.

As riding an e-bike doesn't require any sort of licence, you CANNOT be banned from riding one - unless they lock you up (always possible) which might have that effect.

Driving licences only relate to motor vehicles - an e-bike is not considered to be one under present legislation - it's still legally a bicycle.

The only point to watch is whether what you're riding might be considered to be a motor vehicle - so that Alien Aurora could well land you in serious trouble if you were caught riding it on the road. If it will really do 24 mph without pedalling on the flat that would be classed as an illegal motor vehicle and you could lose your driving licence (if you had one), the bike could be confiscated as being unregistered, uninsured and unapproved, and purely in my opinion there would be a considerable danger of that happening if the police had a mind to stop you. Whether you were doing that speed at the time without pedalling would be irrelevant. Any policeman who reads this forum will already have seen pictures and will know what to look out for.

E-bikes do seem to be getting more popular, and that could well lead to some complications. Up to the present time there probably haven't been enough of them on the road to attract much scrutiny from the authorities. As the cost of running an engine-powered vehicle is set to rise fairly rapidly our little niche perversion might well become more main stream, with all that implies.

Rog.

 

[rog_london]

Sorry Flecc, you beat me to it...

Rog.

 

[eTim]

They should be taken through single vehicle type approval before use on the roads. Don't worry though, all e-bikes in Britain are illegal anyway, yes really.

The law clearly states that the bike (not the motor) should be plated by the mnaufacturer with the plate stating motor power in watts, battery voltage and bike weight. The plate should be in a prominent position where it can be easily read. Of course none of them comply as they come from the manufacturer.
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I smell a grey area. If all ebikes in the UK are illegal, then the debate about motor power, illegal motors etc is academic, we are all riding illegal bikes. So what does that make our electric bikes? Are we all subject to the Road Traffic Regulations or not and need tax, insurance, licence etc? What are we riding?

 

[flecc]

I smell a grey area. If all ebikes in the UK are illegal, then the debate about motor power, illegal motors etc is academic, we are all riding illegal bikes. So what does that make our electric bikes? Are we all subject to the Road Traffic Regulations or not and need tax, insurance, licence etc? What are we riding?

Quite right of course, but meanwhile we rely on the continuing ignorance regarding plating. However, it's probably a temporary situation, since EU law doesn't have the plating provision and the DfT are in the process of incorporating that. Hopefully we'll be rid of the old British EAPC law provision then, just the UK only 14 years minimum age limit left for e-bikes (Road Traffic Act 1988).
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[eddieo]

when is the law due to change again? as I want to get a new throttle assist bike just before (if any left in the rush) Probably a 906 xc or if something better comes along.......who knows

 

[flecc]

We don't know, there was a possibility of it happening within this year, but with the chaos being caused by demands for cutbacks by all government departments, there could be a delay.
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[rog_london]

Probably not worth starting a new thread, but did anyone notice this back in March?

If it's been done already on here and I missed it, my apology for duplicating it.

Bettws man’s anger as police impound electric bike (From South Wales Argus)

Rog.

 

[Vikki]

That's similar to the one I see coming up the Eastern Road every evening. I don't like it, it looks too much like a moped and, initially, that's what the brain says it is and you get a wtf! moment that is slightly disturbing. He must get stopped a lot.

Vikki.

 

[rog_london]

That's similar to the one I see coming up the Eastern Road every evening. I don't like it, it looks too much like a moped and, initially, that's what the brain says it is and you get a wtf! moment that is slightly disturbing. He must get stopped a lot.

Vikki.

Yes, it is a peculiar looking thing, isn't it? I haven't a clue who makes it, but I suspect it's a Far Eastern creation.

I remember when 'mopeds' really did have to have pedals, even if they were almost useless - rather like an ostrich's wings for flying. I think that requirement was dropped (for mopeds, not ostriches).

Rog.

 

[Alex728]

its similar the model up from what the older Chinese guy I saw earlier today was riding (his looked more like a "shopper style e-bike"), but those ones "sakura" have traditional wire spoked wheels..

I expect a wider problem is fears that particularly in areas where lots of things arrive in containers from China, the more powerful moped-style Chinese "e-bike" (which would need a license) will make an appearance here...

 

[eTim]

Quite right of course, but meanwhile we rely on the continuing ignorance regarding plating. However, it's probably a temporary situation, since EU law doesn't have the plating provision and the DfT are in the process of incorporating that. Hopefully we'll be rid of the old British EAPC law provision then, just the UK only 14 years minimum age limit left for e-bikes (Road Traffic Act 1988).
.

Flecc, thanks for the info but I'm still non the wiser. Regardless of where the regulations are headed, as it stands at this moment in time, technically everybody that currently rides an ebike is riding a machine that is illegal to use on the public highway in the UK because nobody has a plate fitted, regardless of pedelec function, motor output, top speed etc?

So to make our bikes legal we either have to have a plate fitted by the manufacturer or register our bikes, wear an approved helmet, buy some tax and insurance and become subject to the road traffic regulations as they stand for motorised vehicles?

Or is there a third way?

 

[onmebike]

No it doesn't, legal e-bikes are not motor vehicles under our road traffic acts, unlike in Ireland where they are.

You cannot lose your licence for an offence while riding a legal e-bike, just as you cannot be banned from riding an e-bike.
.

If a man on a mobility scooter that doesn't need a driving licence, a man on a barbie toy car and a cyclist in Dublin can be banned, I wouldn't be too sure about this? Courts appear to have the power to give discretionary driving ban's.
I also believe you can be banned from cycling under some protection of life laws if you are considered extremely dangerous, also for certain medical condition's.

 

[flecc]

If a man on a mobility scooter that doesn't need a driving licence, a man on a barbie toy car and a cyclist in Dublin can be banned, I wouldn't be too sure about this? Courts appear to have the power to give discretionary driving ban's.

As I said above, magistrates courts do get it wrong at times and wrongly convict. That scooter rider nmay have been wrongly convicted.

However, e-bikes have a specific exemption from road traffic law which mobility scooters don't have, so it's wrong to draw comparisons between the two.

A legal e-bike is just an ordinary bicycle in law, the motor element should be ignored.
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[flecc]

Flecc, thanks for the info but I'm still non the wiser. Regardless of where the regulations are headed, as it stands at this moment in time, technically everybody that currently rides an ebike is riding a machine that is illegal to use on the public highway in the UK because nobody has a plate fitted, regardless of pedelec function, motor output, top speed etc?

So to make our bikes legal we either have to have a plate fitted by the manufacturer or register our bikes, wear an approved helmet, buy some tax and insurance and become subject to the road traffic regulations as they stand for motorised vehicles?

Or is there a third way?

Yes, that's it, there is no third way. However, the old web advice to e-bikers has been archived by the DfT, so clearly they do not regard it as valid any more, making a defence.

This questionable legality is not unique. Trikes are excluded by law from using bridleways, but have DfT permission via Sustrans to do so. Cyclists must not ride on the pavement by law, but have specific permission from the Home Office to do so when in fear through traffic etc.
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[dan]

Flecc, thanks for the info but I'm still non the wiser. Regardless of where the regulations are headed, as it stands at this moment in time, technically everybody that currently rides an ebike is riding a machine that is illegal to use on the public highway in the UK because nobody has a plate fitted, regardless of pedelec function, motor output, top speed etc?

So to make our bikes legal we either have to have a plate fitted by the manufacturer or register our bikes, wear an approved helmet, buy some tax and insurance and become subject to the road traffic regulations as they stand for motorised vehicles?

Or is there a third way?

some manufactures do comply and fit a makes label fitted...as to the change in the law, the DfT might or might not change the law, if they do my guess is that it will be at least a year away, and then there will be additional time to allowed for importers and dealers to move on existing stock, probable another year.

 

[eTim]

At the risk of sounding utterly confused (because I am) - I don't want to be too pedantic about the issue of legality but.....

ebikes in the UK have an exemption from road traffic regs, fine, got that, so it would be very unusual for a magistrate to have an effect on the ebiker's driving license regardless of the law that has been broken.

And so ebikes are actually classed as bicycles regardless of their power output or function, so in effect, anything goes as far as the law is concerned, is that correct? Unless you have a plate fitted and everything else meets the current legislation, you are not in the class of an ebike (does the ebike class exist)?

So a home build high power, throttle only machine is no different to a big brand plateless machine in terms of it's vehicle class and legal status?

 

[dan]

At the risk of sounding utterly confused (because I am) - I don't want to be too pedantic about the issue of legality but.....

ebikes in the UK have an exemption from road traffic regs, fine, got that, so it would be very unusual for a magistrate to have an effect on the ebiker's driving license regardless of the law that has been broken.

And so ebikes are actually classed as bicycles regardless of their power output or function, so in effect, anything goes as far as the law is concerned, is that correct? Unless you have a plate fitted and everything else meets the current legislation, you are not in the class of an ebike (does the ebike class exist)?

So a home build high power, throttle only machine is no different to a big brand plateless machine in terms of it's vehicle class and legal status?

see my post on the first page of this thread...it should explain it for you