Can this happen when using your ebike?

[Alex728]

as for DIY kits, last time I looked on the German pedelecs forum there were loads, some with quite high power, and no complaints of hassles from the Polizei, despite the German speaking nations traditionally being strict on the enforcement of traffic laws (for instance even jaywalking often results in a fine of at least €30 in many areas)

NL has relaxed its laws, until 2007-01-01 all e-bikes (including legal EU ones) required compulsory insurance! since then the market has grown strongly with many locally designed machines, which is surely good for that nations economy.

 

[MAB]

NL has relaxed its laws, until 2007-01-01 all e-bikes (including legal EU ones) required compulsory insurance! since then the market has grown strongly with many locally designed machines, which is surely good for that nations economy.

I always follow the Dutch influence with interest!

Regards,

Mike.

 

[eTim]

I don't have any argument about what a salesman may or may not say at the point of sale. Did you get out of bed on the wrong side this morning?

As to the rest of it, well, you're welcome to agree or disagree.

Rog.

Sorry Rog, wasn't having a go, just a bit frustrated that no-one appears to be bothered that we might be riding machines that are technically illegal for use on UK roads, that's all (hey I'm not particularly bothered either, I just like to establish the facts).

The point I was trying to make about the off-road part is that some bikes are advertised with a derestrict mode or throttle only mode and they are advertised for off-road use only in this mode. I think this is highly misleading as Mr. J.Public will think that use of the bike in this mode is fine along byways, when in reality it wouldn't be. But this argument could only be had as long as the bike had a manufacturers plate which most, apparently, don't seem to have (including my own), making use of the bike illegal anyway (incidentally meaning that my illegal 190rpm means nothing).

Maybe we should start a new thread 'Why ebikes are illegal for use in the UK?' then we could make a list of the reasons (or maybe we shouldn't ).

 

[rog_london]

Sorry Rog, wasn't having a go, just a bit frustrated that no-one appears to be bothered that we might be riding machines that are technically illegal for use on UK roads, that's all (hey I'm not particularly bothered either, I just like to establish the facts).

The point I was trying to make about the off-road part is that some bikes are advertised with a derestrict mode or throttle only mode and they are advertised for off-road use only in this mode. I think this is highly misleading as Mr. J.Public will think that use of the bike in this mode is fine along byways, when in reality it wouldn't be. But this argument could only be had as long as the bike had a manufacturers plate which most, apparently, don't seem to have (including my own), making use of the bike illegal anyway (incidentally meaning that my illegal 190rpm means nothing).

Maybe we should start a new thread 'Why ebikes are illegal for use in the UK?' then we could make a list of the reasons (or maybe we shouldn't ).

Accepted!

I think it's already been well established that we're all riding bikes which are technically illegal 'on the road' because they don't display a plate. However, as the intention is to align ourselves with EU regs and they don't have any requirement to display a plate it's unlikely that would ever present a problem.

We need to realize that 'off road' here is a euphemism, which is the point I was making. Not too many of us have private estates or other enclosed areas available where we can ride what we like legally, and that's really what we're talking about. Bicycles and therefore e-bikes can use green lanes, bridle paths, in fact almost any track not designated specifically as a footpath. As we don't have a problem using an e-bike without a plate on the road, these other places are also automatically open to us.

What does slightly concern me - and I do mean 'slightly' - is the skirting around the 15mph (ours) or 15.5mph (theirs) rule. That's really going to be the thing the authorities will be interested in as it's the area where the rules will be deliberately broken. No-one will want to exceed the weight limit, so really regulation is going to be about enforcing maximum power and maximum assisted speed. I feel sure that kits will be outlawed and only approved and unmodified designs will be allowed, as we know that it's the combination of motor, controller and battery voltage which will determine those parameters, and as has been mentioned before, if you can mix and match those items you will almost certainly be able to break the maximum speed and power rules even though those components in different combinations may be perfectly legal.

It seems to me that the philosophy of an e-bike and the choice of parameters such as speed, weight and power is simple enough - it's to enable someone who is NOT young, slim and ever so fit to ride a bike as fast as someone who is - on the basis that it shouldn't be any more dangerous. The other associated advantages of exercise, convenience, reduced wear on the roads, avoidance of car journeys, etc., are bonuses which the authorities would obviously encourage. I'd suggest that the magic 15mph feels about right. There will always be those - manufacturers and riders - who will want to push their luck. Were it not so, why would we need regulation at all?

Rog.

 

[Mussels]

It might be worth pointing out to more recent joiners that illegal ebikes have been taken off the road, the rickshaws in London were well overweight with inadequate brakes. It didn't have much to do with speed and even then probably only happened because of passenger safety.

 

[flecc]

just a bit frustrated that no-one appears to be bothered that we might be riding machines that are technically illegal for use on UK roads, that's all (hey I'm not particularly bothered either, I just like to establish the facts).

It's not just the plate of course. The British EAPC regulations clearly state 200 watts, but the bulk of machines sold for some while are EU matching 250 watts, so illegal on that point too.

Of course the DfT are well aware of all this illegal practice, but have no interest in any police action. The simple fact is that ultimately the EU regulations have been fully in force since 10th November 2003 and under EU regulations the continuance of the British 1983 EAPC regulations is itself illegal and in defiance of an entirely legal EU order. Therefore in the event of any successful British court prosecution, an appeal through the higher courts and if necessary then to Europe would succeed and bring full compensation. Faced with a determined defendant, it would never be allowed to go that far.

Those of us who ride entirely British legal e-bikes are safe from prosecution. Those of us who ride entirely legal EU specification bikes are also ultimately legal so need have no fear that are breaking any law in truth.

Those who ride e-bikes with a specification that includes EU and British regulations, e.g. independently acting throttle without pedalling and 250 watts are breaking the law and always will be. However, this is such a fine point of law, which will be historic anyway after the regulation change, they need not worry. Their bikes will be treated like all existing bikes after that change, legal until finally scrapped.
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