Help! Conversion suggestions

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,289
16,333
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
It's possible to get the BBS01B motor doing nearly all of the work, by pedalling too slow using the absolute minimum pedal push force possible on highest assistance (firmware tweak "Keep current" at 100% helps). I don't know if similar can be done with the TSDZ2 because I've never tried one, and certainly will never buy one.
The 48V TSDZ2B that I sell has a full throttle. Head over to https://wooshbikes.co.uk/?tsdz2 for details. If you want to climb hills without pedalling then use the throttle.
 
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Raboa

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 12, 2014
710
272
51
I have tried front hub, rear hub and BBS02, if i was going to do it again i would go for a rear torque sensor rear hub.

The BBS02 is great but even with a gear sensor fitted i found getting a good chainline difficult and gear changes at times annoying.

Mid drives motor are a bit like marmite, you either love them or hate them.

There are fans of both systems on the forum, it comes down to personal preference, if you get a chance try and ride both systems.

If you go for a rear hub motor then look into Gaadi inner tubes, this will save you a lot of hassle when you get a puncture.

You may have to buy 2 files for your rear dropouts if fitting rear hub motor, a second cut flat one and a 10mm round file.

Also you may have to use an adapter to get the battery to fit on the downtube properly, this helps if your bottle cage bolts are not mounted in the centre of the downtube.

Wolf Tooth B-RAD 4-Slot Mounting Base | Merlin Cycles

This forum is great for advice and thanks for joining.
 
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guerney

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 7, 2021
9,732
2,908
I decided to build an electric moped. Picked up a 39 year old frame with a v5 from an auction last week for £170 plus buyers fees. So no mot required after next September and free tax the following April.

Most of the stuff that came with it was junk and has gone to the recycling centre, including the engine and exhaust. Nice 5 star wheels though. Shame I can’t use the back one.

It‘s going to get a rear hub motor. And a 20s 10p battery where the engine used to be.

3K is a lot, a sum like that burning a hole in my pocket would likely get spent on an actual IC motorbike.

You could start a thread about your very interesting build in the S-pedelec section? People would chime in every so often about how and why it isn't a S-pedelec, and you could pretend to not understand what they're saying and continue posting about your progress. I'm certainly interested in seeing this beast get built.
 

saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
3,516
1,750
Telford
After getting myself hyped up for a torque sensing mid drive, i think i am actually more inclined to go for a rear hub, i have just about managed to get away with 2 bikes being kept indoors a third would be the straw.
That being the case it would be my Fiido d4s that would get the chop so i would be without a rear hub powered bike, i have my bbs02 for long distance fair weather cruising so this will be my everyday all weather workhorse.
So with that now established in my mind any recommendations on a waterproof 750w 48v reliable rear hub kit.
The Q128H from BMSBattery is supposedly rated at 800w. It's actually the same size as your average 250w motor, so would easily pass as one, especially if the easy-peel label fell off. It's a freewheel hub, so limited to 7-speed, but that's fine considering how much power it can give. At 14A and 48v, it gives enough power for what any normal rider would need on normal roads with the occasional steep hill. At 20 amps, it should have enough power for heavyweight riders to deal with steep hills. 25A would be overkill for most riders, but it can easily handle that much power.

If you must have 8-speeds or more, there's the Q128C, which can handle up to 22 amps. It's a bit narrower than the H version because it needs more room for the cassette. It's a bit wider too, so you have to spring the frame a bit to get it in, and you normally need to off-set the rim to get it central.

Whatever motor you get, make sure you choose the right speed version. Its max RPM at the voltage you run it should be approximately 1.2 to 1.3 times your planned modal riding speed.

If you get a nice KT controller, you don't need a torque sensor. If your only experience of hub-motored bikes was a Woosh, Freego or similar with crappy LiShui controller, I can see why someone might think about the advantages of a torque sensor, but I'd say a KT controller is a better solution as it gives more choice of how hard you need or want to pedal.
 

Saracen

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 24, 2023
310
13
So I have a Cannondale EQ Adventure step thru arriving in about a week and haven't decided which kit to put on it yet, I do know 750w is my sweet spot and I rarely go above 15mph but need the oomph for a steep hill I take a few times daily .
What I'm looking for is suggestions for what you would put on it and how as in positioning of kit components for as neat a look as possible.
Bear in mind I am not overly keen on rear rack mounted batteries and do have a brand new 17.5ah 48v Hailong battery lying around unused from my previous project.

I assume you are NOTY UK based or you would stay legal with 250 watt motors
 

saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
3,516
1,750
Telford
I did a complete test and write-up back in 2014:
I can summarise by saying the 48v version is like a winch when it comes to hills. The internal shifting takes a bit of getting used to. On automatic, it often shifts at the wrong time, so it's better to shift manually. It'll cruise happily at 20 mph in the high gear, and it can manage moderate hills in high gear, like any similar sized hub-motor, but in low gear the torque is immense, and speed can go well below 10 mph without over-heating.

It's pretty wide, so you need to spring the frame a fair amount to get it in and you need to build a large off-set to get the rim central.

In summary, I'd say that the Q128H is better overall because it's simpler, easier to install and it can give enough torque for just about anything. The Xiongda might be better for towing because it can run slower.
 
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Az.

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 27, 2022
994
433
Plymouth
So I have a Cannondale EQ Adventure step thru arriving in about a week
Did you receive your bike? I got my delivered yesterday - what a traumatic experience. I don't think I will order anything big from Evans Cycles anymore.
Red color is absolutely beautiful.
I am a bit disappointed with Micrishift derailer. At this price point I was expecting better performance. It might make more sense to use rear hub rather than mid drive.

Funny thing - kick stand is to long. That I didn't expect LOL
 

Jaxter

Pedelecer
Sep 13, 2020
101
22
Did you receive your bike? I got my delivered yesterday - what a traumatic experience. I don't think I will order anything big from Evans Cycles anymore.
Red color is absolutely beautiful.
I am a bit disappointed with Micrishift derailer. At this price point I was expecting better performance. It might make more sense to use rear hub rather than mid drive.

Funny thing - kick stand is to long. That I didn't expect LOL
Hi
Yes I received mine yesterday too, I've left it boxed up as it was easier to tuck away in a corner until its taken to be worked on.
Glad to hear your happy with the red colour, disappointing to hear your niggles with the shifting and too long kickstand, I'll eventually let you know how I get on, at the moment I'm flip flopping on kit decision but after reading about the improvements in the software on the Toseven DM motors I am leaning that way, please let us know if you decide on a kit
Hope your oh is happy with new bike .
 

Jaxter

Pedelecer
Sep 13, 2020
101
22
Hi all after going to bed with my mind made up on a Toseven, i took my rear hub out the next day and had a change of heart i have a mid drive already so i would like to go for the rear hub i have found the following after much searching as i would like a bafang and the 750w rear hubs all seem to be fat bike centric.
So would the following kit be suitable for the Cannonndale Adventure Eq
If it is suitable would i be able to use it in conjuction with the torque sensor kkit from Whoosh.
Thanks
 

Peter.Bridge

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 19, 2023
536
245
Hi all after going to bed with my mind made up on a Toseven, i took my rear hub out the next day and had a change of heart i have a mid drive already so i would like to go for the rear hub i have found the following after much searching as i would like a bafang and the 750w rear hubs all seem to be fat bike centric.
So would the following kit be suitable for the Cannonndale Adventure Eq
If it is suitable would i be able to use it in conjuction with the torque sensor kkit from Whoosh.
Thanks
Isn't that one really for fat bikes ? Thats quite heavy ? 5.6 kg https://bafang-e.com/en/products/motors/hr-series/h640 thought the standard Bafang rear model for "normal" and MTB was the Bafang G020 https://bafang-e.com/en/oem-area/components/component/motor/rm-g020250350ddc
I think it would be compatible with the torque sensor kit - the controller (which determines the power) for the Woosh kit comes shipped with 15amps max current (can access that and change it in the LCD settings but not sure what the limit is on that controller) - I think 48v * 15A should be fine power wise but the "standard" controllers for 48V G020 are 18amps max current.
See @Nealh post https://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/conversion-suggestions.46344/post-696583

Alternatively look at the aikema ones recommended earlier in this thread ?
 
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saneagle

Esteemed Pedelecer
Oct 10, 2010
3,516
1,750
Telford
Hi all after going to bed with my mind made up on a Toseven, i took my rear hub out the next day and had a change of heart i have a mid drive already so i would like to go for the rear hub i have found the following after much searching as i would like a bafang and the 750w rear hubs all seem to be fat bike centric.
So would the following kit be suitable for the Cannonndale Adventure Eq
If it is suitable would i be able to use it in conjuction with the torque sensor kkit from Whoosh.
Thanks
That kit has a 22A controller. Woosh one is only 15A, so not much point in having a motor like that. Why not get a Q128H motor and KT controller and be happy like Neal and I and everybody else that uses one? I can't see any advantage of a torque sensor. Have you tried a KT controller yet?
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,289
16,333
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk

Jaxter

Pedelecer
Sep 13, 2020
101
22
The Q128H from BMSBattery is supposedly rated at 800w. It's actually the same size as your average 250w motor, so would easily pass as one, especially if the easy-peel label fell off. It's a freewheel hub, so limited to 7-speed, but that's fine considering how much power it can give. At 14A and 48v, it gives enough power for what any normal rider would need on normal roads with the occasional steep hill. At 20 amps, it should have enough power for heavyweight riders to deal with steep hills. 25A would be overkill for most riders, but it can easily handle that much power.

If you must have 8-speeds or more, there's the Q128C, which can handle up to 22 amps. It's a bit narrower than the H version because it needs more room for the cassette. It's a bit wider too, so you have to spring the frame a bit to get it in, and you normally need to off-set the rim to get it central.

Whatever motor you get, make sure you choose the right speed version. Its max RPM at the voltage you run it should be approximately 1.2 to 1.3 times your planned modal riding speed.

If you get a nice KT controller, you don't need a torque sensor. If your only experience of hub-motored bikes was a Woosh, Freego or similar with crappy LiShui controller, I can see why someone might think about the advantages of a torque sensor, but I'd say a KT controller is a better solution as it gives more choice of how hard you need or want to pedal.
I did a complete test and write-up back in 2014:
I can summarise by saying the 48v version is like a winch when it comes to hills. The internal shifting takes a bit of getting used to. On automatic, it often shifts at the wrong time, so it's better to shift manually. It'll cruise happily at 20 mph in the high gear, and it can manage moderate hills in high gear, like any similar sized hub-motor, but in low gear the torque is immense, and speed can go well below 10 mph without over-heating.

It's pretty wide, so you need to spring the frame a fair amount to get it in and you need to build a large off-set to get the rim central.

In summary, I'd say that the Q128H is better overall because it's simpler, easier to install and it can give enough torque for just about anything. The Xiongda might be better for towing because it can run slower.
Thanks for the reply, I've spent the past few hours reading up on the Q128H. I think it would actually be the best option for me, small enough to be fairly inconspicuous and lighter then most other similarly powered motors.
Would I be able to use the Q128h as I have Acolyte 8 speed shifter on the bike, also do I need cassette or freewheel for my bike?
I have a 17.5ah 48v Hailong battery I'm hoping to use its brand new and was brought for a bbs02 build, but was too big for the frame triangle, I've been making sure to give it a sit on the charger every 2 months just to keep it in good shape.
So I'm going to need a Q128h ready laced into a 27.5 diameter wheel a recommendation for a decent controller to make the most of it all I have a half twist throttle unused also from aforementioned build also what would be the best display to go along side it, it would be great if someone did a kit with everything I'll need.
I am sure you will all set me straight if not, all your advice and guidance is appreciated by the way.
 

AGS

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 12, 2023
351
100
I like the Bafang GO20/SWX02 (10). It’s small, lightweight, cheap, reasonable quality, readily available and can be run at ridiculous power levels with a few modifications.

It also has good spare parts availability, so if it is abused the clutch and planetary gears can easily be changed at little cost.

And in the event of overheating it is easy to fit the innards of a new one into the case, so you don’t need to lace up a new wheel if you blow it up.
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,289
16,333
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
So I'm going to need a Q128h ready laced into a 27.5 diameter wheel a recommendation for a decent controller to make the most of it all I have a half twist throttle unused also from aforementioned build also what would be the best display to go along side it, it would be great if someone did a kit with everything I'll need.
you can get a BBTS kit with DWG22C wheel in 650B rim for £260 from me.
The Q128h is quite good but like all motors with two stage reduction gearboxes, parts are not easily found and the cogs are smaller for the same torque compared to single stage gearboxes.
 

Peter.Bridge

Esteemed Pedelecer
Apr 19, 2023
536
245
I like the Bafang GO20/SWX02 (10). It’s small, lightweight, cheap, reasonable quality, readily available and can be run at ridiculous power levels with a few modifications.

It also has good spare parts availability, so if it is abused the clutch and planetary gears can easily be changed at little cost.

And in the event of overheating it is easy to fit the innards of a new one into the case, so you don’t need to lace up a new wheel if you blow it up.
I have the 48V G020 /SWX02 (12) with 26 inch wheels, with the cheapo standard speed based 18a controller (just in the process of moving to the Woosh torque based kit) . I thought it would be a good compromise between speed and hill climbing ability. I did consider the (10) - that is 393 rpm on 48v ? Not had any problems up some pretty severe hills (see below - which did cause the xf08c 36v to stutter !) and seems to be in the power band at legalish speeds (max unrestricted motor no load speed on full battery 28mph) - which is faster than I would want to go !
55044
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
19,289
16,333
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
I have SWX02 in 26" but not in 650B rim. Otherwise, price is same compared to DWG2C