Cycling. Health. Covid. Diet.

guerney

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Sometimes there is much squirming because the accused simply don't want mud to stick - it doesn't necessarily mean that it leaked during lab experimentation, even if they were funding experiments. It's obvious that drug companies found out about these experiments and bribed to get the viruses released from two different labs twice, for decades of bumper vaccine profits (!) Twice, to be sure:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02519-1

Or perhaps the Chinese and Russians released it intentionally because they believe that totalitarian states will cope better during a decades long pandemic than democratic governments, to ultimately prevail. Time to start learning Chinese (or Russian)...

We haven't heard from the Alien Virus Conspiracy bunch yet. It's surprising, because more people believe in Aliens than Jesus. Time to start learning Venusian (or Martian [or Uranussianese])...
 
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guerney

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Looking at the charts:


...I believe that a lockdown could be justified by the powers that be, in about 8 weeks (or a bit later) - the one to watch is the hospitalisation rate chart. They'll serously consider lockdown to prevent the NHS being swamped, the death rate doesn't matter as much this time: it's too low.
 
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StuartsProjects

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Sometimes there is much squirming because the accused simply don't want mud to stick - it doesn't necessarily mean that it leaked during lab experimentation, even if they were funding experiments. It's obvious that drug companies found out about these experiments and bribed to get the viruses released from two different labs twice, for decades of bumper vaccine profits (!) Twice, to be sure:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02519-1
Very interesting article, to quote;

"The latest study, if verified, would mean that the scenario of a researcher accidentally being infected in a lab, and then spreading the virus to the population at large, would have had to happen twice, says Garry. It’s much more likely that the pandemic had its origins in the wildlife trade, he says."
 

vfr400

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If it was a lab leak - we're still statistically due a natural pandemic, which could occur concurrently within the 20 or so year timeframe that this one may take to die off. What a cheery thought.

My latest batch of Chickpea Natto is ready. Almond Natto? Might be worth trying, I've got 4kg of almonds...
I keep the virus away by eating those big triple chocolate cookies that you get from Morrisons and other supermarkets. 4 in a packet and 2 packets for £2 at the moment. Since I've been eating them, I haven't had the virus once. Mind you, my stomach was making weird grumbling noises after eating all 8 yesterday afternoon. I think that must have been the pro-biotic anti-viral bit doing its thing. They should last a while, so back on the sausage, ale and leek pies today.
 
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vfr400

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Sometimes there is much squirming because the accused simply don't want mud to stick - it doesn't necessarily mean that it leaked during lab experimentation, even if they were funding experiments. It's obvious that drug companies found out about these experiments and bribed to get the viruses released from two different labs twice, for decades of bumper vaccine profits (!) Twice, to be sure:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02519-1

Or perhaps the Chinese and Russians released it intentionally because they believe that totalitarian states will cope better during a decades long pandemic than democratic governments, to ultimately prevail. Time to start learning Chinese (or Russian)...

We haven't heard from the Alien Virus Conspiracy bunch yet. It's surprising, because more people believe in Aliens than Jesus. Time to start learning Venusian (or Martian [or Uranussianese])...
Jesus died and went to heaven. Aliens are alive and kicking right now all over the universe. There might be an alien right now sitting in your kitchen. How would you know?
 

Tony1951

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You need to get the bigger picture. This research was going on the US, then the world leaders decided to disallow it because of the risks. USA, like everybody else carried on doing it on the QT but got found out, so they had to stop. IIRC, it was stopped by Trump at the beginning of his presidency, when he did an audit of where all the money was being spent, but they still wanted to carry on, so they used an intermediary - Daszak's organisation, The Eco Health Aliance - to arrange for it to be done in China. The research was done by Shi, who published a paper on it and credited Fauci himself as one of the sponsers. In other words, in the first instance, the money could be seen going directly to dangerous virus research, but they changed it to go to NIH and NIAID as general medical research money, where it was laundered through NIAID to the Eco Health Alliance, and from there to the Wuhan lab.

Putting together the various facts, you can see that some US government department had asked Fauci to sort it out. He was worried about the implications of financing it directly from his outfit, so he did it covertly using Daszak as the intermediary to launder the money through, hoping that there would be no comeback. Fauci must have spoken directly with Shi, otherwise Shi wouldn't have listed him as a sponsor. Shi is just a scientist, who does research and probably knew nothing about governments. Fauci offered her money to do the research. She didn't care where it came from. Maybe she didn't even notice that it didn't come from Fauci's accunt directly. He said he would pay and Shi got the money. Why would Shi ask any questions?

When questions started to be asked about the role of the Wuhan lab in the virus and Trump announced that they had information that it had indeed come from that lab, Fauci called a video conference meeeting (found from an FOI request) that involved WHO, the big tech social media leaders, key media players and others, where they hatched a plot to cover up the story, which is why nobody was allowed to mention it on social media and why the BBC et al poo pooed any story about it coming from Wuhan, but eventually the evidence was overwhealming, so they had to backtrack on that nearly a year later. I suspect that part of it is all about power, who has what on who.

Incidentally, remember the Trump Russian Collusion story for which he was impeached. The Lawyer, who Hillary Clinton paid to organise the whole fake story has just been indicted by the FBI on several charges in relation to it. it's looking like after all these years, they are going to hold the perpetrators to account. This includes a very high up social media executive. More to follow.

It's only when you follow all these stories that you see how the media manipulate the facts and can't be trusted.

What should you do? Ride your bike and keep yourself healthy. Get lots of sunlight. Avoid mixing with people unnecessarily. Enjoy your life. hope that the vaccines will improve, but IMHO, that's unlikely. Hope/pray that the virus starts mutating into a less harmful variant. Don't listen to any of the mainstream media. Every time you see the words "conspiracy theory", exchange them for "probable truth".
I agree with much of the post you made, but will wait and see about the parts where you infer the motives of various participants, which to a large extent, lack an evidential basis. It is largely unclear what people were thinking when money was transferred to Professor Shi in Wuhan, except I think, that virologists in general have made gain of function research one of their key tools and are committed to continuing doing it, where it is allowed.

I think you are right when you suggest that much of the media was only too glad to suggest that Trump's early announcement about a lab leak was just part of his mad hatter nutjobbery. The trouble with that was, that he was right, but the media then was very reluctant to go into the evidence because he was associated with the theory. There have certainly been efforts to sweep the idea under the carpet, some of them deliberate conspiracies like the organisation of the Lancet open letter by Peter Danszac. Nicholas Wade also refers to the reluctance of the important science magazine 'Nature' and many western universities, which are basically in hoc to China's Communist Party which funds them. They are all afraid of offending the CCP. When Australia called for a more open and vigorous investigation of the source of the virus, China imposed an embargo on significant amounts of Australian trade. If you mess with the Chinese official version - they will make you pay heavily.

The only way to work out what happened is for free, searching and impartial research to be carried out. China has frustrated the first of these requirements by hiding data, refusing access and promoting ridiculous ideas such as that Sars-Covid-2 came from New Zealand on frozen fish and was brought into Wuhan on said fish.

At the moment, we might well hope the virus will mutate into a more benign form, but there is no sign of that happening so far. Indeed, the variants have become much more infectious over the months since it first emerged. The original Dr Shi virus was infectious enough to infect a researcher and get out of the lab into Wuhan, but was rapidly replaced by mutation in Italy to the version which hit the UK around February 2020. That was replaced by the more infectious Kent variant which ran amok around here in Tynedale and Cumbria around November / December 2020. It went on to become the dominant strain until the Indian variant emerged and that is about two and a half to three times as easy to catch as the original version. It is now by far the commonest version about in the world. I'd bank on the thing becoming more infectious still. There is a strong evolutionary imperative for it to do so. There is also an imperative for it to evolve vaccine resistance as more of the world population get jabbed. The rate of mutation is a function of infection rates. The more virus, the more generations of virus reproduce, the more likely a random mutation which helps it spread will be produced.
 

Tony1951

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Mar 27, 2016
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Jesus died and went to heaven. Aliens are alive and kicking right now all over the universe. There might be an alien right now sitting in your kitchen. How would you know?
There are plenty of aliens in my house which is a 180 year old stone cottage. I occasionally see them - huge spiders over one and a half inches across will creep out under skirting boards and dash across the floor to hide in my wood pile by the stove. Now and again I have caught them in my bath, which for all their advanced technology they seem incapable of escaping from. I have tried to communicate with them to no avail, and resorted to putting them out of the bathroom skylight where they were promptly devoured by birds. Perhaps these are the birds which communicate with you (as you stated in earlier posts) and you are really the recipient of alien intelligence which most of mankind is deprived of.
 

guerney

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The more virus, the more generations of virus reproduce, the more likely a random mutation which helps it spread will be produced.
Fortunately, viruses which jump species eventually evolve to become less deadly, they "Want" to live too. The AIDS virus for instance, is now less deadly than it used to be.
 

Tony1951

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 27, 2016
438
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Sometimes there is much squirming because the accused simply don't want mud to stick - it doesn't necessarily mean that it leaked during lab experimentation, even if they were funding experiments. It's obvious that drug companies found out about these experiments and bribed to get the viruses released from two different labs twice, for decades of bumper vaccine profits (!) Twice, to be sure:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02519-1

Or perhaps the Chinese and Russians released it intentionally because they believe that totalitarian states will cope better during a decades long pandemic than democratic governments, to ultimately prevail. Time to start learning Chinese (or Russian)...

We haven't heard from the Alien Virus Conspiracy bunch yet. It's surprising, because more people believe in Aliens than Jesus. Time to start learning Venusian (or Martian [or Uranussianese])...
Nature is funded by the Chinese Science funders and will do anything to keep the idea that the virus escaped from the Wuhan Institute of Virology away from public view.

Source: https://unherd.com/2021/06/beijings-useful-idiots/

The paper you quote is not a peer reviewed paper either. It was released on a forum.

This argument by Nicholas Wade is vastly more likely. Read it - it won't waste your time.

Even those who think lab origin unlikely agree that SARS2 genomes are remarkably uniform. Dr. Baric writes that “early strains identified in Wuhan, China, showed limited genetic diversity, which suggests that the virus may have been introduced from a single source.”
A single source would of course be compatible with lab escape, less so with the massive variation and selection which is evolution’s hallmark way of doing business.
The uniform structure of SARS2 genomes gives no hint of any passage through an intermediate animal host, and no such host has been identified in nature.
Proponents of natural emergence suggest that SARS2 incubated in a yet-to-be found human population before gaining its special properties. Or that it jumped to a host animal outside China.
All these conjectures are possible, but strained. Proponents of lab leak have a simpler explanation. SARS2 was adapted to human cells from the start because it was grown in humanized mice or in lab cultures of human cells, just as described in Dr. Daszak’s grant proposal. Its genome shows little diversity because the hallmark of lab cultures is uniformity.
Proponents of laboratory escape joke that of course the SARS2 virus infected an intermediary host species before spreading to people, and that they have identified it — a humanized mouse from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.
3) The furin cleavage site.
The furin cleavage site is a minute part of the virus’s anatomy but one that exerts great influence on its infectivity. It sits in the middle of the SARS2 spike protein. It also lies at the heart of the puzzle of where the virus came from.
The spike protein has two sub-units with different roles. The first, called S1, recognizes the virus’s target, a protein called angiotensin converting enzyme-2 (or ACE2) which studs the surface of cells lining the human airways. The second, S2, helps the virus, once anchored to the cell, to fuse with the cell’s membrane. After the virus’s outer membrane has coalesced with that of the stricken cell, the viral genome is injected into the cell, hijacks its protein-making machinery and forces it to generate new viruses.
But this invasion cannot begin until the S1 and S2 subunits have been cut apart. And there, right at the S1/S2 junction, is the furin cleavage site that ensures the spike protein will be cleaved in exactly the right place.
The virus, a model of economic design, does not carry its own cleaver. It relies on the cell to do the cleaving for it. Human cells have a protein cutting tool on their surface known as furin. Furin will cut any protein chain that carries its signature target cutting site. This is the sequence of amino acid units proline-arginine-arginine-alanine, or PRRA in the code that refers to each amino acid by a letter of the alphabet. PRRA is the amino acid sequence at the core of SARS2’s furin cleavage site.
Viruses have all kinds of clever tricks, so why does the furin cleavage site stand out? Because of all known SARS-related beta-coronaviruses, only SARS2 possesses a furin cleavage site. All the other viruses have their S2 unit cleaved at a different site and by a different mechanism.
How then did SARS2 acquire its furin cleavage site? Either the site evolved naturally, or it was inserted by researchers at the S1/S2 junction in a gain-of-function experiment.
Consider natural origin first. Two ways viruses evolve are by mutation and by recombination. Mutation is the process of random change in DNA (or RNA for coronaviruses) that usually results in one amino acid in a protein chain being switched for another. Many of these changes harm the virus but natural selection retains the few that do something useful. Mutation is the process by which the SARS1 spike protein gradually switched its preferred target cells from those of bats to civets, and then to humans.
Mutation seems a less likely way for SARS2’s furin cleavage site to be generated, even though it can’t completely be ruled out. The site’s four amino acid units are all together, and all at just the right place in the S1/S2 junction. Mutation is a random process triggered by copying errors (when new viral genomes are being generated) or by chemical decay of genomic units. So it typically affects single amino acids at different spots in a protein chain. A string of amino acids like that of the furin cleavage site is much more likely to be acquired all together through a quite different process known as recombination.
Recombination is an inadvertent swapping of genomic material that occurs when two viruses happen to invade the same cell, and their progeny are assembled with bits and pieces of RNA belonging to the other. Beta-coronaviruses will only combine with other beta-coronaviruses but can acquire, by recombination, almost any genetic element present in the collective genomic pool. What they cannot acquire is an element the pool does not possess. And no known SARS-related beta-coronavirus, the class to which SARS2 belongs, possesses a furin cleavage site.
Proponents of natural emergence say SARS2 could have picked up the site from some as yet unknown beta-coronavirus. But bat SARS-related beta-coronaviruses evidently don’t need a furin cleavage site to infect bat cells, so there’s no great likelihood that any in fact possesses one, and indeed none has been found so far.
The proponents’ next argument is that SARS2 acquired its furin cleavage site from people. A predecessor of SARS2 could have been circulating in the human population for months or years until at some point it acquired a furin cleavage site from human cells. It would then have been ready to break out as a pandemic.
If this is what happened, there should be traces in hospital surveillance records of the people infected by the slowly evolving virus. But none has so far come to light. According to the WHO report on the origins of the virus, the sentinel hospitals in Hubei province, home of Wuhan, routinely monitor influenza-like illnesses and “no evidence to suggest substantial SARSCoV-2 transmission in the months preceding the outbreak in December was observed.”
So it’s hard to explain how the SARS2 virus picked up its furin cleavage site naturally, whether by mutation or recombination.
That leaves a gain-of-function experiment. For those who think SARS2 may have escaped from a lab, explaining the furin cleavage site is no problem at all. “Since 1992 the virology community has known that the one sure way to make a virus deadlier is to give it a furin cleavage site at the S1/S2 junction in the laboratory,” writes Dr. Steven Quay, a biotech entrepreneur interested in the origins of SARS2. “At least eleven gain-of-function experiments, adding a furin site to make a virus more infective, are published in the open literature, including [by] Dr. Zhengli Shi, head of coronavirus research at the Wuhan Institute of Virology.”
 
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guerney

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Nature is funded by the Chinese Communist Party and will do anything to keep the idea that the virus escaped from the Wuhan Institute of Virology away from public view.

This is not a peer reviewed paper either. It was released on a forum.

This argument by Nicholas Wade is vastly more likely. Read it - it won't waste your time.

Nature is infinitely ingenius, therefore it's not beyond the realms of possibility that this or any other design evolved naturally - such tools for analysis didn't exist during the Russian Flu Pandemic of 1889, I wonder what "Suspicious" features that Coronavirus had?


Hundreds of years later, it's now one of the weak four co-existing coronaviruses which cause the common cold (probably, IMHO). Until something is proven, it's best to keep an open mind - that's what scientists do.
 
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vfr400

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Fortunately, viruses which jump species eventually evolve to become less deadly, they "Want" to live too. The AIDS virus for instance, is now less deadly than it used to be.
Not Covid because it's not a natuaral virus. Nobody knows how it will turn out. Some are predicting disaster.
 

guerney

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Not Covid because it's not a natuaral virus. Nobody knows how it will turn out. Some are predicting disaster.
A "Doomsday Variant" is feared - in the end we have no control over what has occured, we have almost no control over what is happening, therefore I choose to control the factors I do have control of ie diet and exercise... till the baying crazed mobs (coughing, sneezing and spluttering, suddenly lacking energy unable to lift baseball bats) take over the unlit streets. Doomsday prep time for sure. Maybe I should have bought more almonds...
 

Tony1951

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Nature is infinitely ingenius, therefore it's not beyond the realms of possibility that this or any other design evolved naturally - such tools for analysis didn't exist during the Russian Flu Pandemic of 1889, I wonder what "Suspicious" features that Coronavirus had?


Hundreds of years later, it's now one of the weak four co-existing coronaviruses which cause the common cold (probably, IMHO). Until something is proven, it's best to keep an open mind - that's what scientists do.
Certainly nature is ingenious and viruses do evolve naturally and cross species barriers, but there are many generations involved and modern research techniques on the blood samples of animals and humans who have been infected show differences in the generations of antecedent viruses. As I have said earlier, these were readily found for SARS and MERS, but not for Sars-Covid-2 which exploded onto the world in 2019, fully able to very efficiently infect human beings lung cells. It came from nowhere - UNLIKE the 1918 flu pandemic, which was a flu virus in a long line of flu viruses.

I have seen very convincing arguments that Sars_Covid-2 emerged from experiments on either humanised mice at Wuhan (which without doubt was doing that kind of research according to available documented evidence) or from the serial passage technique in which human cell cultures are laced with virus and any surviving virus is them moved on to a new generation of cell cultures, over and over again until a viable new virus emerges which can infect human cells.

We KNOW that Dr Shi was doing this at Wuhan from published papers. We KNOW it. Why do you dismiss it every time the idea is posted?
 

guerney

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We KNOW that Dr Shi was doing this at Wuhan from published papers. We KNOW it. Why do you dismiss it every time the idea is posted?
Because it's guff until it's proof, getting upset about conjecture is just daft. Until it's proven, I won't be getting angry.
 

Tony1951

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Ah- guff. You should have said so earlier and we could all have had the definitive scientific answer.
 

guerney

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Ah- guff. You should have said so earlier and we could all have had the definitive scientific answer.
Until it's proof, it can be called anything.
 

guerney

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From my point of view, we're all grieving the death of the way things used to be before Covid. We're collectively going through it's 5 stages:


Discussing guff is part of that, so don't let me stop you posting guffy conjecture - it's healthy for you to continue doing so. Now, back to the beansprouts... I'm making them from brown lentils this time.
 

flecc

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There are plenty of aliens in my house which is a 180 year old stone cottage. I occasionally see them - huge spiders over one and a half inches across will creep out under skirting boards and dash across the floor to hide in my wood pile by the stove. Now and again I have caught them in my bath, which for all their advanced technology they seem incapable of escaping from. I have tried to communicate with them to no avail
It's not surprising they don't have time for a chat with a human, when you see them they have sex on their mind. These are Tegenaria species, mainly Tegenaria domestica, and they are very clever at finding nooks and crannies in homes where they hide inside funnel webs most of the year, feeding on any unwary insect or spider that trips over one of their web lines.

Mainly around July-August the males get the mating urge and go on a high speed walkabout, looking for females, so that is when we most commonly see them. Like all creatures when sex takes control of their minds, they can act daft, such as tumbling into the bathtub from which they cannot climb out.
.
 
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guerney

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It's not surprising they don't have time for a chat with a human, when you see them they have sex on their mind. These are Tegenaria species, mainly Tegenaria domestica, and they are very clever at finding nooks and crannies in homes where they hide inside funnel webs most of the year, feeding on any unwary insect or spider that trips over one of their web lines.

Mainly around July-August the males get the mating urge and go on a high speed walkabout, looking for females, so that is when we most commonly see them. Like all creatures when sex takes control of their minds, they can act daft, such as tumbling into the bathtub from which they cannot climb out.
.
Because they've so conveniently exited their miniscule invisible spaceships, maddened to mate, I've been trying to photograph them, but I don't think I have the right lenses - one of my zooms does a reasonable job but I need to keep the buggers still enough (without killing them) to take enough for image stacking of multiple images, like you're supposed to:


They go still with exhaustion in the bath tub, maybe that's the best set.