Cyclist Arrest

Straylight

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 31, 2009
650
2
Yes, and "who wants to live forever"?

I think that if people are too stupid to be trusted to drive in a safe considerate manner, then elements of their 'control' over their vehicles should be removed, and automated.

Eg.
Forward radar systems that prevent the car being driven too close to those in front, relative to speed (I believe Mercedes had a demonstrator of this years ago).

RF tags built into speed limit signs that are read by the car, which then imposes said limit.

Automatically dipping headlights, triggered via a forward facing infra-red camera.

360° proximity sensors that can't be disabled, and only shut down when the car is at a standstill. This could work via a surround-sound setup focused on the driver's head, to enable them to have an audio picture of their immediate surroundings.
 
Last edited:

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
46,532
23,366
Forward radar systems that prevent the car being driven too close to those in front, relative to speed (I believe Mercedes had a demonstrator of this years ago).
Several makes have developed these, but they have an intrinsic flaw which prevents their introduction.

They work very well with two cars, but the problem comes with multiple cars in convoy, something which commonly happens on our congested roads. Each system only sees the car in front, so the momentary delay in action taking effect multiplies with convoy number as each car in turn brakes ever harder to stop in time. At one point later in the column the braking fierceness becomes unacceptable.

Drivers by contrast can "see ahead" and all good drivers anticipate in this way, enabling them to take early action when a developing situation occurs ahead. Of course those bad drivers who don't "see ahead" are no better than the radar system.
.
 

Fecn

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 28, 2008
491
2
Warlingham, Surrey
They work very well with two cars, but the problem comes with multiple cars in convoy, something which commonly happens on our congested roads. Each system only sees the car in front, so the momentary delay in action taking effect multiplies with convoy number as each car in turn brakes ever harder to stop in time. At one point later in the column the braking fierceness becomes unacceptable.
As an aside to this, studies have shown that the braking/accelerating action of cars in congested traffic under 30mph follows Hookes law for compression waves travelling in springs. The compression wave of people braking and then accelerating progresses along the congested traffic at around 3mph.

Back in my university days, I used to make good use of this because I knew I could hit the button on the pedestrian crossing outside the chip shop, and then walk along the road waiting for the stopped portion of the traffic to catch up with me at my front door, allowing me to cross the road at my convenience without having to stand there waiting for the lights to change.

Anyway.. enough trivia... time I went off on my bike in the sun.
 

Straylight

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 31, 2009
650
2
I wasn't suggesting this as a brake pedal replacement though, merely as a kind of failsafe*. I take the point about the flaw, perhaps this could be circumvented by using an adhoc wireless network between cars in the convoy, or by each one broadcasting its GPS position, tied in with a sat-nav system, so your car's onboard system would know the relative positions and speed of those around it? With modern day computing power, this could be accomplished with an app for the iphone I'd have thought :) .

* Could become a new game for drivers - beating the computer to the brakes :D - anything that could promote increased attention to the road eh?
 
Last edited:

Straylight

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 31, 2009
650
2
As an aside to this, studies have shown that the braking/accelerating action of cars in congested traffic under 30mph follows Hookes law for compression waves travelling in springs. The compression wave of people braking and then accelerating progresses along the congested traffic at around 3mph.

Back in my university days, I used to make good use of this because I knew I could hit the button on the pedestrian crossing outside the chip shop, and then walk along the road waiting for the stopped portion of the traffic to catch up with me at my front door, allowing me to cross the road at my convenience without having to stand there waiting for the lights to change.

Anyway.. enough trivia... time I went off on my bike in the sun.
Oh very clever :D - I bet you were popular!:D
 

Haku

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 20, 2007
339
4
Gloucestershire
RF tags built into speed limit signs that are read by the car, which then imposes said limit.
It's a nice idea but reliably reading RFID tags at a distance longer than an inch or two would be a severly tough nut to crack. For this idea to work the signs themselves would have to have power to transmit an RF signal the car could receive.

Automatically dipping headlights, triggered via a forward facing infra-red camera.
With the ever increasing brightness of car headlights, something I can't help but notice that the lights in cars nowadays are notably brigher than 10-15 years ago, which is why I've now put my 300 LED front (flood)light on my bike and enables me to highbeam the gits who don't dip when they go past, I would welcome this because it ticks me off just how inconsiderate night drivers can be.

360° proximity sensors that can't be disabled, and only shut down when the car is at a standstill. This could work via a surround-sound setup focused on the driver's head, to enable them to have an audio picture of their immediate surroundings.
People wouldn't buy cars that beeped at them constantly when stuck in rush-hour traffic, if I had a car I'd want one of these systems installed though: YouTube - Infiniti EX "Around View Monitor" Birdseye Camera
 

rog_london

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 3, 2009
764
2
Harrow, Middlesex
With the ever increasing brightness of car headlights, something I can't help but notice that the lights in cars nowadays are notably brigher than 10-15 years ago, which is why I've now put my 300 LED front (flood)light on my bike and enables me to highbeam the gits who don't dip when they go past, I would welcome this because it ticks me off just how inconsiderate night drivers can be.
It must be close to 30 years now since halogen headlights first made their appearance, with a corresponding increase in lamp efficiency of maybe 20 to 30%. However, that's as nothing compared to the (highly expensive) HID lights which are now being fitted to many top-of-the-range cars. These 35 watt lamps are capable of putting out double or treble the light of a standard H2 halogen lamp which would have equivalent wattage.

Rog.
 

Old Timer

Esteemed Pedelecer
Dec 5, 2009
1,279
12
It must be close to 30 years now since halogen headlights first made their appearance, with a corresponding increase in lamp efficiency of maybe 20 to 30%. However, that's as nothing compared to the (highly expensive) HID lights which are now being fitted to many top-of-the-range cars. These 35 watt lamps are capable of putting out double or treble the light of a standard H2 halogen lamp which would have equivalent wattage.

Rog.
+1 to that

Headlights might be brighter and better for the one behind them to see but they are a bugger to drive against.
 

stewart

Finding my (electric) wheels
Nov 24, 2009
5
0
golf balls

I read a few years back:

approximately 1 pedestrian killed by cyclist every 4 years.

approximately 1 person (pedestrian or otherwise) killed by golf ball every 3 years.

Therefore you are more likely to be killed by a golf ball than a bike.
(i'd hate to try to find the link now, but you get my drift).

If you're on a bike then you are far more likely to get killed to death on our roads than a dozy ped getting hit by a bike. Ask that 22 yr girl who copped it in Victoria Park, London last week (crushed against railings by a lorry turning left at a slow moving, leafy roundabout). You wont get an answer, saw the flowers the other day.

Whether on ebike or standard dont forget that on pushbike your lives dont count SO be careful out there!

Stewart
 

Straylight

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 31, 2009
650
2
+1 to that

Headlights might be brighter and better for the one behind them to see but they are a bugger to drive against.
Quite, and I'd also like to advocate the death penalty for anyone who leaves their fog lights on all the time :mad: :D .

They don't look (as they obviusly think*) "cool", they just look childish and stupid IMHO.

*Maybe "think" is too strong a word...
 
Last edited:

Lloyd

Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2010
166
0
All these modern "safety features" might make cars safer, but IMO it makes the drivers much more dangerouos. Each of these things removes a level of responsibility from the driver and its one less thing to worry about. Until it goes wrong.

I like to think of it this way.

If you are driving a modern car, with saftey bags, side saftey bags, crumple zones, cruise control, abs, pas, traction control, launch control, parking sensors and now even cruise sensors, how safe do you feel driving down the road? Very. But then you have huge confidence, and can drive faster. Often too fast for the conditions as you are numbed to the whole driving experience. Before you know it you are cruising down the middle lane of the M1 (probably hogging it oblivious to the rest of the world correctly using the lanes :p ) at 90 mph and it feels like 30, as the car is so well built. Its like going down the m1 in a giant floaty bubble. Nothing can hurt you. To make it worse you have now got Steven Hawkings missus on the windscreen telling you which road to drive down (satnav). Soon the driver will become obsolete.



Now, get out of the modern car, and get into a 1980 Austin Mini. Drive it down any road at 40mph and you feel like Jenson Button. Its shaking, rattling, steering is heavy, you feel every bump in the road. You can feel the changes in road surface, camber and the weather. You are aware of absolutley everything. You look at other cars and lamposts thinking "if that hits me Im dead". Now instead of an air bag that comes out the wheel you have a giant spike that kills you on impact. I bet you don't crash now ;)

As you may be able to tell I think the standard of driving in this country sucks.

And no before anyone says, I don't have a 1980's mini :D
 

Django

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 11, 2007
453
1
If you are driving a modern car . . . . . . etc
I agree entirely. It is one of the great joys of cycling and motorcycling that you can feel every bump, see every stone, feel the moisture level of the road change and collect all sorts of other information from the environment.
 

HarryB

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2007
1,317
3
London
I think that if people are too stupid to be trusted to drive in a safe considerate manner, then elements of their 'control' over their vehicles should be removed, and automated.


RF tags built into speed limit signs that are read by the car, which then imposes said limit.



It's a nice idea but reliably reading RFID tags at a distance longer than an inch or two would be a severly tough nut to crack. For this idea to work the signs themselves would have to have power to transmit an RF signal the car could receive.
But why bother? The technolgy already exists to equip cars with gps and speed limiting and the mapping has already been done. The government seems reluctant to do this and the cynical in me suggests it is the loss of revenue. However it could be that it has looked at the law of unintended consequences and discovered it is a no goer. All you would find is that goons would drive with their foot stamped on the floor all the time and I would go further and say that all of us would be tempted to drive like that. There are loads of speed limits that are just plain wrong (in both directions) so the roads would end up being less safe.

You would be amazed at the numbers of drivers who think that a speed limit is the speed at which you should drive at regardless of the conditions - it tends to be the young who should be better trained although lack any sort of experience (now I am sounding like my dad).
 

lemmy

Esteemed Pedelecer
All these modern "safety features" might make cars safer, but IMO it makes the drivers much more dangerouos. Each of these things removes a level of responsibility from the driver and its one less thing to worry about.
The perfect remedy for this would be a long spike sticking out from the steering wheel boss with the point 1cm from the drivers chest.

Tail-gating, excess speed, mobile phone usage, lack of care and attention eliminated at a cost of a few pounds per vehicle. Watch the accident figures plummet.
 

eTim

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 19, 2009
607
2
Andover, Hants.
Speed does not kill, inappropriate speed kills, driving at 90mph hogging the middle lane when no-one else is around is perfectly acceptable.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
46,532
23,366
Speed does not kill, inappropriate speed kills
True.

Our fastest roads are the motorways.

Our safest roads are the motorways.

Because motorways are appropriate for speed.

Case proven.
.
 

Lloyd

Pedelecer
Jan 22, 2010
166
0
The problem with most Middle lane hogs is that they never notice when other people are around, and are totally oblivious to the world around them. Annoyingly I would get the points if caught undertaking them. :mad:

And in this case, points most definately don't mean prizes.

It's amazing how that is just a UK thing? Mainland Europe manage to use lanes correctly. Maybe that's why they are allowed to have Autobahns in Germany. :rolleyes:

They also have variable speed limits for road conditions in France, and much harder driving tests, especially in Finland. No wonder our roads are so bad.
 

Straylight

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 31, 2009
650
2
Speed does not kill, inappropriate speed kills, driving at 90mph hogging the middle lane when no-one else is around is perfectly acceptable.
I agree, it's just sad that so many people seem unable to be trusted/are not trained to make this judgement. Hence the imposition of a simple, easy to follow set of speed limits in the first place. I also think that with the volume of traffic, they become more relevant, as one is bound to be travelling within range of a member of the lowest common denominator, and it only takes one mistake to cause a motorway pileup.

It seems to me that part of the problem with resistance to forced safety measures, is that each driver considers themselves in isolation, rather than as part of a collective group of people using the roads at any one time.

Speed, and "driving on the edge" are fun, and there's a place for such fun, it's called a racetrack. I personally don't want to die for the sake of someone else's recreation/impatience/lack of time panning, or any other petty reason. I mean, for god's sake, it's only transport, getting from one place to another, and yet it seems to have taken on an inapropriate symbolism for personal freedom and self determination. I don't have a car, and yet I still feel free to set the course of my life - go figure.
 
Last edited: