DFT consultation on increase of 250W limit to 500W

[Az.]

My post specifically referenced riding bicycles of any kind on pedestrian pavements - NOT shared resources,

Yes, I was writing about pavements too.

There are inconsiderate louts among the populations of ALL of these transport modes. I detest them all.

That is true, but when it comes to cyclists you can add also ignorance as there is no need to pass any test. With total lack of accountability there is no way to correct bad behavior.

 

[Nealh]

I don't cycle on pavements either, amazed at how many do. Even worse than cycle paths.

I do here and there.

 

[guerney]

I do here and there.

I can't stand it - people walking out of terraced houses right out in front, dog walkers, kids, toys, escooters, drivers or passengers exiting cars, cats, squirrels, foxes, badgers, birds, rats and other cyclists, rabbits sometimes, hedgehogs, frogs too, bagged and unbagged dog doo doo, slippy wet plastic bags which might have contained dog doo doo, confetti, condoms, big squishy and slippy worms and slugs, rotting discarded part eaten food, branches bricks sticks and stones, people walking out from between vehicles, nervous ill or drunk pedestrians who might lurch or wobble over in any direction, the horrible state of pavements, the madness of wheelie bin street clutter days, scrap metal and dead appliances left out, protuding tree roots etc. etc. It's faster and safer by road.

 

[WheezyRider]

Another advantage of a 500W limit is you could have two wheel drive at 250 W each

 

[guerney]

I do here and there.

I can't stand it - people walking out of terraced houses right out in front, dog walkers, kids, toys, escooters, drivers or passengers exiting cars, cats, squirrels, foxes, badgers, birds, rats and other cyclists, rabbits sometimes, hedgehogs, frogs too, bagged and unbagged dog doo doo, slippy wet plastic bags which might have contained dog doo doo, confetti, condoms, big squishy and slippy worms and slugs, rotting discarded part eaten food, branches bricks sticks and stones, people walking out from between vehicles, nervous ill or drunk pedestrians who might lurch or wobble over in any direction, the horrible state of pavements, the madness of wheelie bin street clutter days, scrap metal and dead appliances left out, protuding tree roots etc. etc. It's faster and safer by road.

...muggers, poles for signeage too close together to ride through, hypodermic needles, pools of vomit, small nitrous oxide popper cans, mattresses, gobtoppers and other balls, conkers, pine cones, odd bits of wood or plastic and other materials, discarded vapes which might explode like land mines when you ride over them etc. etc. It's deffo safer cycling on the road.

 

[thelarkbox]

That is true, but when it comes to cyclists you can add also ignorance as there is no need to pass any test. With total lack of accountability there is no way to correct bad behavior.

Wot no cycle proficiency day in Primary schools anymore?? Next you will be telling me there is no milk before nap time and housing associations with ex tory Councillors on the board have built houses on the playing fields.. oh- right..

 

[Nealh]

...muggers, poles for signeage too close together to ride through, hypodermic needles, pools of vomit, small nitrous oxide popper cans, mattresses, gobtoppers and other balls, conkers, pine cones, odd bits of wood or plastic and other materials, discarded vapes which might explode like land mines when you ride over them etc. etc. It's deffo safer cycling on the road.

I don't live in a ghetto area as you seem to do.

 

[Nealh]

Another advantage of a 500W limit is you could have two wheel drive at 250 W each

2WD likely still illegal even if both were 250w , Flecc may know more.

 

[guerney]

I don't live in a ghetto area as you seem to do.

Those are my observatons as a pedestrian, of many areas.

 

[WheezyRider]

Those are my observatons as a pedestrian, of many areas.

Just walk around staring into your phone like everyone else and you'll stop noticing and worrying about such things around you...

 

[WheezyRider]

2WD likely still illegal even if both were 250w , Flecc may know more.

Well it was a tongue in cheek suggestion (it's a question that comes up now and then and is then quickly kicked back into the long grass). I would be interested though to see what Flecc says. I don't recall seeing anything saying you couldn't have more than one motor.

 

[guerney]

Just walk around staring into your phone like everyone else and you'll stop noticing and worrying about such things around you...

I keep seeing cyclists using their phones while somehow managing to maintain balance while staring at their phone screens, with one hand on the handlebar - I've recorded this several times (another cyclist was eating chips with no hands on the handlebar, cycling on the road heading downhill at high speed. I haven't the faintest how he managed that! Circus performer?), but as with nearly all of the 4,000km+ of footage my videos cameras have recorded, it didn't seem interesting enough to not delete. Much less stuff of note happens with regard to traffic these days, thanks to my lighting setup.

 

[flecc]

2WD likely still illegal even if both were 250w , Flecc may know more.

Well it was a tongue in cheek suggestion (it's a question that comes up now and then and is then quickly kicked back into the long grass). I would be interested though to see what Flecc says. I don't recall seeing anything saying you couldn't have more than one motor.

The exemption to allow EAPCs is very singular in its mention of an auxilliary motor.

However, there is no mention of the motor being in a wheel, hence mid motors, so not in a wheel or divided between two wheels doesn't seem to matter, especially since it is the bicycle and not the motor which is supposed to be labelled with 250 watts etc.

And there is EU precedent, since the SPARC rear wheel motor which was on the market long ago and later fitted for a while in a £750 Halfords Carrera e-bike had twin motors inside it's hub shell.

 

[soundwave]

it needs more power

i could make one of those and be a uber driver

 

[guerney]

Another advantage of a 500W limit is you could have two wheel drive at 250 W each

"The Dually XR is equipped with a unique dual motor traction control e-system."

PWR Dually XR All Wheel Drive Ebike for Overlanding, Hunting, and more

Take your off-road adventures to the next level with The Dually XR electric bike! Equipped with all-wheel drive, traction control, and dual 500W motors, this high-performance e-bike can tackle most any terrain you want to ride. Whether you're exploring rugged trails, climbing steep hills, or...

ridepwr.com

 

[saneagle]

The exemption to allow EAPCs is very singular in its mention of an auxilliary motor.

However, there is no mention of the motor being in a wheel, hence mid motors, so not in a wheel or divided between two wheels doesn't seem to matter, especially since it is the bicycle and not the motor which is supposed to be labelled with 250 watts etc.

And there is EU precedent, since the SPARC rear wheel motor which was on the market long ago and later fitted for a while in a £750 Halfords Carrera e-bike had twin motors inside it's hub shell.

View attachment 56945

Heinzmann do that double "125W" motor system for cargo trikes, so two motors must be allowed. That's the 250w total system that can pull 500kg up a 15.8% hill at god knows what speed.

 

[WheezyRider]

Heinzmann do that double "125W" motor system for cargo trikes, so two motors must be allowed. That's the 250w total system that can pull 500kg up a 15.8% hill at god knows what speed.

The "125 W" motor probably has a zero missing off the end of the label!

 

[saneagle]

The "125 W" motor probably has a zero missing off the end of the label!

The only thing that matters is that the system has an EN15194 certificate. What it shows is people's misconceptions of the law. I've always said that you can get as much power as you need within the law. People think that there's some sort of limit to the power, and when they see this sort of power, they immediately think that someone is cheating, but it's allowed. The certification organisation cannot argue about the motor's rated power. The manufacturer decides that, so it is what they say. If they put a 250w sticker on the side of a Chieftain tank motor, it would be allowed as long as you could find a way to pedal it.

 

[Hoppy33]

If we don't believe that the DfT is honest in wanting to promote all the benefits of active mobility, and that it sees ebikes as central to that aim, then this debate cannot move forward positively.

Personally, I believe the DfT's motives are good and that these proposed new measures are a step in the right direction - to everyone's benefit. I'm dismayed by some sections of the bike industry who seem to think that it's a short road to a clamp-down and further restrictive legislation that would kill the golden goose of ebikes classified the same as pedal bikes. And while they pay lip-service to concerns over safety and health and the environment, actually what they care most about is selling more bikes.

If ebikes become more popular, that should push them up the transport agenda and maybe we'll get more bike lanes and cycle paths. Proper cycling infrastructure is what we need first and most. Chicken and egg.

 

[Wayners]

E-bike power limit: BA and ACT urge bike industry to resist 500W proposal

The Association of Cycle Traders and Bicycle Association say the proposal to raise the e-bike power limit is unnecessary, risky, and the wrong approach

www.globalcyclingnetwork.com