My Dilemma......

[eddieo]

Hi I joined today, and my dilemma is this.....I would prefer a bike that looks (and weighs) like a Shwinn/Kalkhoff/cytronex. BUT I am to far gone health wise lol and believe I need a moped style, that only the Chinese versions such as ezee/wisper seem to offer.......

While touring (no access to 230v some of the time) I have a 600watt inverter in motorhome.Will this be powerful enough to charge a pair of batteries whilst on the move? and do the ezee or wiper model chargers have a battery state indicator? as that would mean I would not have to worry so much regards the weight if I can charge either or both at a time on the move....

Anyway, included my intro posted today to give some background.....

"Hi everyone! my name is Eddie, I live in S/W London, I am mid 50's overweight and unfit with various health prob's. We have a number bikes both conventional and folding which we take on holidays in our motorhome. was thinking of getting a small car and towing it with our motorhome.......but a pair of electric bikes will probably do the trick ( our teenagers can cycle along! lol) as we use public transport/cabs/trains as well.
Have been avidly reading this forum for a few days, and it is a great resource , If I was buying a bike for a daily commute would probably bite the bullet and get a Kalkoff. but as mainly for leisure and a little local fitness riding I'm not to sure...
because of weight issues with the camper I like the look of the the Shwinn (when will it arrive?) as it is relatively light and can be used as a traditional bike (access to 230v can sometimes be an issue when touring in the van) also it just looks right lol where some of these Chinese imports are like WW2 throwbacks lol - but I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I thought most fell roughly into 3 distinct price areas the £500/ £1000/£1500 and wanted to pay around £1000 max (each) but bikes like the wisper 905SE although quoted on here as being expected to be £1000 are actually £1200 and I can get a kalkoff aguita for £1250 but I prefer the moped capability of others.. how do the ezee compare with the wisper as they look similar?
well I think thats enough of an introduction Lol look forward to some meningful advice especially regards the Shwinn.......was wondering why a solid drive instead of a chain ( not at all technically minded by the way) as I would think this would be harder work without battery power?"

 

[Tiberius]

Motorhomes and Ebikes

Hi Eddie,

As for which bike to choose, you could do a lot of analysis, including going out and measuring the gradient of the local hills, like I did, or you could arrange to try a range of types. I only tried a couple out, but I did the analysis and discussed things at length with people on here.

But, your post reminds me that we have a few people on here with motorhomes. Perhaps we need to formally declare them - I've got a 5 berth Compass Avantgarde. I've not yet used it in conjunction with the ebike but there are a few things to resolve.

How to carry them. They are heavier than ordinary bikes and I'm not sure how the simple tow bar carriers will handle one, let alone two. They also don't like the wet. Myself I have a large trailer; a friend of mine has a motorhome with an inbuilt garage.

Charging. An inverter would do, and I expect most chargers would need one of 200 W or greater. Using the inverter while parked up might not be so good, but quite often when parked up there is mains available. Not in so many of the places I park, though.

Nick

 

[flecc]

The Schwinn Continental will be obtainable in the UK from Hilderthorpe Cycles, but no supplies until August at the earliest. However, I'd advise some caution since their earlier attempt at this bike was a bit of a disaster, mainly due to controller and software problems. The Zero shaft drive does work but is slightly less efficient and is only available coupled to the Nexus 7 speed hub gear. These Schwinns use the same Tongxin Nano front wheel motor as the Cytronex, but the latter uses it in a different way.

The Cytronex has no throttle but has switched power levels for different riding modes and circumstances. It's major claim to fame is that it's only 17 kilos, very much lighter than the competition, and is also a good bicycle in it's own right. Using a small battery it's dependent on some cycling ability and not suitable to be used moped fashion.

The Wisper bikes are heavier at a little over 23 kilos and has a long range battery, the somewhat similar eZee models mostly heavier with a standard battery size, from 24 to 28 kilos, probably important from the point of view of carrying the bikes the way you want to.

The Kalkhoff Agattu is also around that weight at 26 kilos, but the more sporty Pro Connect is only 21 kilos. With their drive through gears system, they will climb just about any hill with even a not very fit rider.

I'd advise wherever possible that you have test rides to get the feel of these different bikes, each design type very different from the rider's point of view.
.

 

[eddieo]

Thanks Nick & Flecc!.

I just spoke to the chap at Hilderthorpe and a very a patient and informative chap he is..... they are expecting some different model Shwinns in, including a "campus" model @ approx £1000. Cheaper then the continental and the streamline, but heavier. Not all these shwinns are prop drive some are chain.

They have the Raleigh clone of the Kalkhoff on their site as well but as they are as expensive (if not more) so probably a bit pointless?

There is a wisper 905SE on ebay: Item number: 280242270330 what do you think? I emailed the chap and he bought it in January new from an ebay seller..... So not to sure what that means. Is the guarantee only 6 months on these Chinese bikes/batteries? as the Kalkhoff is 2 years I believe?

thanks Eddie

 

[flecc]

That certainly looks promising Eddie, probably a forum member selling. These bikes were sold on ebay by the German Wisper reseller at a very favourable price, and a number of members bought those.

Bike guarantees are usually the legally required one year, some exceptions at two years.

Batteries are a different case as they are consumables and not subject to the same law. Most battery guarantees are 6 months, but Kalhoff give 2 years on the Panasonic unit battery, since it's a known high quality and is not highly stressed due to the excellence of the controlling software on those units.
.

 

[eddieo]

Just had a call from another very nice man from the Ezeee distributer in Brighton. he recommended the forza or sprint (when I told him how FAT I am, lol) I will go to Brighton which is not far and try when I return from Italy in August. Now I see in the classified section that these ezzee models are not as popular, and stay around "for sale" at lot longer then the likes of a wisper, so what is this telling moi?

wisper I called the other day (another very nice man) and asked did they have a sales outlet in London. Chap was trying to persuade me to go to the new forest to demo them, But I could only ride it around their yard. Hardly a demo is it.... I have a campervan so new forest no problem... but come on! offer a proper demo. And what if I have warranty problems, Brighton or anywhere in London would be preferable for a return or maintenance......

there has been a substantial price hike in the ezee range compared to what 50cycles were charging.

also I have a large garage in my motorhome so storage not a problem.

 

[fishingpaul]

The older ezee bikes had a rather poor battery reputation, often cutting out on hills after several months, this is probably reflected in the second hand price but i believe the new batterys are ok,i would not reccomend paying too much for the wisper on ebay, the last second hand german one went for around £900 pounds i think, a ridiculous price for a second hand bike with possible warranty issues.if you want fitness riding i would reccomend a kalkhoff as these need some pedalling,and are one of the best bikes to ride on the flat without assistance.

 

[oldosc]

Hi Eddieo
Same boat, we have a Chausson 45, built 1990, use it twice a year have done 160 000 miles since 1993..always camp sauvage...to the extent I had to put a marine charger on it, to charge my batterys for the electric outboard..I have a 400watt inverter..any less and you get a stutter,if you try using another switch voltage charger from it.(which I believe from the weight , most Li battery chargers are.)
The weight issue is not a problem.. I have an Aggatu, and a Silverado...just replaced my old bike carrier with a new Fiammo 120 pro...tested no problem...(I will post a picture if any is intrested...( I have to stand on my bike rack to get onto the roof)
On Bikes see if you can test the Silverado...I went for this because of a few problems my Lady J has..it has exceeded all expectations BUT we have not had it for long...ALL I can really say is that she has kept up with me on my Aggatu (one of the No one bikes) it is light, folds, not a bad ride for leisure biking..as we do...I am 70, 6' (nearly) 196lbs,
kid myself I am fit...the Aggatu is king of the road for me..a real class act..Lady J is 5'2" bad hip...e-bikes are a real magic..extend your life by ???? but real fun....must go(gotter do a bit of weld on the van before M O T.)

 

[eddieo]

Have spent a week avidly reading and talking to dealers on the phone and Goggling electric bikes...So now I am an xspurt! lol

In all seriousness, I have on my short list a wisper 905SE, an Ezee or a Kalkhoff

BUT, my wife is younger, not overweight and fitter.....So not sure if she would need such an expensive bike. Another consideration is she will not be using hers much at all as she works days I work nights. only really when we go away in camper. where as I will use mine during the day for some general fitness

I would prefer to get a pair from the same company? any recommendations? But battery power and distance will have to be comparable......or else I will end up pushing hers while she rides mine

will have to read up battery care as hers will not be used as regularly which may be problematic?

 

[gary Gadget]

The 600 watt inverter will probably not power the charger as almost all are 2 to 3 amps rated. I have used a 36 volt Li Wisper charger on a 600 watt inverter and it trips it out on the initial surge, my 24volt charger just manages but the inverter gets very hot very quickly and draws almost 20 amps from the battery. It also takes out a 2 amp fuse at work after a few weeks use

 

[flecc]

will have to read up battery care as hers will not be used as regularly which may be problematic?

In general batteries need to be charged at least once in three months, and it's safer to aim for two months. There are variations though. NiMh types when neglected can sometimes be recovered by repeating the conditioning cycles normally used on a new battery.

More relevant these days, Lithium batteries should normally not be left beyond three months at the most without recharging, but there is the odd exception that has a "sleep" mode, and recovery from that can be the same as the NiMh example above. The only one I know of at present claimed to be like that is the battery supplied with the Panasonic motor units, but I've no proof of the reliability of that or it's consequences on life, so I'd still charge at least every three months to be sure.

Lead acid (SLA) batteries should also be recharged at least three monthly to avoid reduction in life.
.

 

[eddieo]

The 600 watt inverter will probably not power the charger as almost all are 2 to 3 amps rated. I have used a 36 volt Li Wisper charger on a 600 watt inverter and it trips it out on the initial surge, my 24volt charger just manages but the inverter gets very hot very quickly and draws almost 20 amps from the battery. It also takes out a 2 amp fuse at work after a few weeks use

O dear...... even with the engine running? as I was only going to charge while traveling?

so much for that cunning plan

 

[Terrytraveller]

Battery Charger and Inverter

Hi Eddie,

You can charge the battery as you travel, but you will need to travel from Le Touquet Air d' service Nautique to Dijon on the way to Italy, about 5 to 6 hours travel to charge your bike battery

I use a recently purchased Maplins £19 300 watt charger to charge the Li-Pol Powacycle Windsor battery via the supplied ebike charger after a 6 to 10 mile ebike journey, it takes around 3 - 4 hours to charge/top up the battery via the leisure battery and solar panel.

If the charging takes place around mid morning on a bright day, it seems the 85 watt solar panel, charging the two 110 amp carbon fibre habitation batteries, is keeping up with the power usage of the 300 watt inverter and ebike battery charger. So sunshine I'm sunshine powered

I know what you are going to say next Eddie - and answer 'I've looked - and it doesn't'

Regards Terry

 

[eddieo]

Cheers Terry!

length of charge not to much of a concern. More concerned with earlier advice saying it will blow fuse...I have a pair of 110amp leisure battery's no solar.

 

[Tiberius]

The 600 watt inverter will probably not power the charger as almost all are 2 to 3 amps rated. I have used a 36 volt Li Wisper charger on a 600 watt inverter and it trips it out on the initial surge, my 24volt charger just manages but the inverter gets very hot very quickly and draws almost 20 amps from the battery. It also takes out a 2 amp fuse at work after a few weeks use

Hi Gary,

It sounds like something is wrong here. At 3 A output, a 36 V charger is delivering only about 130 W. I don't see how it can be taking more than 200 W from the mains input. I'm also concerned about the fuse at work blowing after a few weeks use - can you elaborate on that, please?

Nick

 

[gary Gadget]

Yep, had a clamp meter on the charger, when you connect it 1st time it spikes, multiple spikes stress the fuse and it eventually pops, changed for a 3 amp and ok (so far). The 24volt lead acid charger also spikes but not as much or as big a difference (27volt/22volt). I put this down to the difference in potential of the charger's no load output of 39volts and the partially discharged voltage of the battery at 32 volts. You need to work on the AC input side – 230volts @ 3amps input to charger = 690watts but the charger is fitted with a 3 amp AC input fuse. This is to cover the 85% efficiency and 4% harmonic distortion. Inverters use a modified sine wave conversion from a 12 volt DC source up to 230/240volts AC and a 600watt unit will draw up to 25 DC amps. So no putting into a normal lighter socket and they also use 0.5Amps just in the power up phase/standby so don’t leave them connected or you will come back to a flat battery.

 

[eddieo]

my 600 watt inverter is directly connected to two 110 amp battery's via crimped 16mm2 cable and a 30 amp fuse. I only intend to charge when driving vehicle. are you still saying the the initial current draw will blow the internal inverter fuse which is 25amp?

 

[gary Gadget]

Opps, that should read 25Amp DC input fuse for a 300watt rated inverter.

 

[gary Gadget]

This is the spec. sheet for a typical 300 watt inverter sold by maplin's which has a 25amp DC input fuse, are you positive your inverter is rated at 600watt continuious and not a 300watt with a surge to 600watt rated one.

LP

 

[oldosc]

The 600 watt inverter will probably not power the charger as almost all are 2 to 3 amps rated. I have used a 36 volt Li Wisper charger on a 600 watt inverter and it trips it out on the initial surge, my 24volt charger just manages but the inverter gets very hot very quickly and draws almost 20 amps from the battery. It also takes out a 2 amp fuse at work after a few weeks use

Hi Garry..this worries me a bit, I have not tried my Aggatu or Silverado charger on my inverter, yet..I use a 10 amp rms standard (resistave charger) to charge my two boat batterys they are 50 ah gel, I charge them in parallell
no trouble...of course the bike chargers are switch mode machines, and there could be a problem here... I have been having a bit of Computer problem (building a couple for friends) so have not been cycling this week (also weather is awefull here) will go out and run down a battery to see what happens . As I have posted if you use leisure batts and camp sauvage, the only way you can get a decent charge into the leisure is with the Sterling marine set up..it costs about £150 but camp sites at £10 even in F soon pays if you go away for a while...We were in Sicill last year, and the fridge blew up (out) we could'nt get a sensible price, and Lady j needs cool for the eye drops, so we bought an electric machine....4amp/hr = 84 amps day
with my charger I only used 1..1.5 hrs tick on engine to supply this..on tick over 2.5 litre diesel uses less than .25 litre hr...and we did'nt have to go on camp sites.....any howls about G warming.....we hav'nt flown for 10 years)
(forget India this year)((and then it was for 12 weeks so Co2 per week was lower than London W1))