My Dilemma......

[oldosc]

ps I have just looked at the spec of a few inverters , and I am sure that in some posts we have seen that modified sine wave is ok for a switch mode machine
my friend blew up my last inverter charging his wife's carrage in a motor home..but this one(maplins) did'nt react

 

[Terrytraveller]

Isn't it modified square wave ?

An earlier post I asked for advice on using the supplied ebike battery charger with a cheaper inverter. Someone gave me a really good run down on switched mode chargers when used with a modified square wave inverter, and claimed that the combination would work succesfully.

I can confirm after using the 300 watt inverter with the switched mode charger, is working perfectly properly.

Regards Terry

 

[eddieo]

This is the spec. sheet for a typical 300 watt inverter sold by maplin's which has a 25amp DC input fuse, are you positive your inverter is rated at 600watt continuious and not a 300watt with a surge to 600watt rated one. LP

It is a Maplin inverter. "600 watt continuous power with 1500 watt surge. modified sine wave. auto shut down protection against overload etc..."

I also have a 2500 watt inverter for the 12v/230v roof A/C unit lol (12v on the move only)

Terry, will I be OK to charge 2 at the same time or safer with just the one do you think?

Eddie

 

[oldosc]

Isn't it modified square wave ?

Yeh typo error

for the reccord just done 15 mile trip on silverado using mostly battery...came home put battery on old maplins inverter no problem has now been on 2 hrs, will report if any trouble, otherwise some-one has a dodgy inverter...charger...
second pic is the sterling split charger

 

[gary Gadget]

You just need to do the maths P=VxI for the output therefore

240volt @2 amp = 480watts ok
@2.25amp = 540 ok
@2.5 = 600 inverter on MAX
@2.6amp = 624 inverter overloaded (alarm)
@3 amp = 720 inverter overloaded (Alarm and shut down)
I have seen 2, 3 and 5amp rated battery chargers
The input is harder to work out due to the inverter type and a few variables come into the mix like 85-90% efficiency cooling fans etc. Running a 600watt unit, just check the input fuse fitted/or recommended and that should give you an idea of the Amps at maximum load so if the unit is fused at 35amps and used on a (NEW)110aH battery it could last 3.1328 hours (half the time required to charge a flat Ebike battery) unless you run the engine, though the inverter might auto shutdown before this on its low volts threshold (usually 10.5volts). But normal car batteries are not meant for prolonged high current drain, they are usually 40 to 50Ah at the 20 hour rate. And the 16mm cable you are using is rated @ 61 amps though a long run will reduce that with a volt drop @2.8mV a meter.
NOT ALL CHARGERS ARE THE SAME – check the specification on the back and the size of fuse fitted (especially the MADE IN CHINA ones!) or check with your supplier and see if they can confirm the charger details and if the charger is ok to use on an inverted supply to charge your battery, some are not! as they use sensitive electronics to detect inductive resistance to gauge the battery charge condition. This is possibly more relevant with the newer battery technologies with BMI circuits built in. Just because one works does not mean yours will and I would not like to see you stranded in the wilds of Italy with a bunch of flat batteries as I know how hard those Ebikes are to pedal up hill

 

[Terrytraveller]

Two into one

It is a Maplin inverter. "600 watt continuous power with 1500 watt surge. modified sine wave. auto shut down protection against overload etc..."

Terry, will I be OK to charge 2 at the same time or safer with just the one do you think?

Eddie

Should be okay Eddie. I know you have wired it directly to the leisure battery via a very large fuse, and that's good. The worst it can do is to take either the very large fuse you've wired into the 12 volt supply to the inverter, or the fuse in the inverter, both easily replaceable.

1. Switch on the inverter first, and let it settle for a few seconds.

2. Connect the ebike batteries to their separate chargers.

3. Connect each charger ring main 13amp plug top to the inverter sockets, leaving a few seconds between the respective connections of each charger battery combination (the load).

The idea of the power up and connection sequence, is to avoid a surge which could send the 12 volt amperage momentarily high and take the fuse out or invoke the crobar saftey circuit in the inverter, assuming there is one in there

If you inadvertently disconnect the inverter from the leisure battery, do not reconnect before removing the load completely.

Regards Terry

 

[oldosc]

wot am i missin ere
watts (as bin stated) is amps times volts
36 volts times 2.5 amps is 90 watts
two batteries at 90 watts is 180 watts
I know...avin just dun it
two batteries
a 36 volt silverado and a 24? volt Aggatu will charge from a 300 watt maplin inverter;
with either battery it does not like my vaio 19v 6 amp connected as well..... I guess that 180+90 = 270 which is too close to nominal max
pics a bit confusing but it does demo that 36vtimes 2.5 amps plus 24 volts times 1.8 amps is less than 300 watts

 

[gary Gadget]

We are talking AC input and load to convert from 230/240volts to 36 volts. Turn your charger over and look at the label. The initial question was can it be run from a 600watt inverter (that is 600 AC watts). Answer is if it is 2amp rated then yes if it is 3amp rated them no.

You can also do the "Apollo 13" start up procedure and hope it don't crash and burn.....I've seen too many DIY electrical installations (some so call auto pro's as well) that have been fine right up to the point it wasn’t. Usually ends up with a bad smell in the car and a burnt carpet if you’re lucky. As to the fuse, it is not there to blow if you overload, it is in circuit to protect the cable, if the cable heats up and the insulation melts after the fuse and before the battery......

Copied from inverter manufacturer site, check the link and read, hopefully this will explain better than I have so far


http://mdsbattery.co.uk/datasheets/inverter-size.pdf

 

[Terrytraveller]

Daring or watt ?

I guess that 180+90 = 270 which is too close to nominal max

Hi Oldsoc,

I expect you tried connecting one load at a time, until all loads are connected ? if so, it must be the initial current inrush exceeding the stated surge capacity of probably 600 watts, on a 300 watt continuous rated inverter.

Or maybe - one of the load specs has been printed incorrectly, or one of the loads is starting to go bad.

I've wired my inverter right off the leisure battery with a 25amp blade fuse in line, I might try taking the blade fuse out and putting the meter probes in on the 10 amp range (the largest range) - just to see how accurate the load rating specs are, and whether my meter will survive

Regards Terry

 

[eddieo]

This brings me around full circle as I started of preferring a more conventional lightweight hybrid bike that could be ridden without battery's. And all this about charging etc.....makes me think I was right in the first place.

So I want a reasonably light bike with Panasonic kit and a twist grip as well. Will probably have to wait as I don't see this spec being available with a throttle yet. The cytonex is nearly there, but I would prefer a more powerful rear pannier placed battery and a throttle.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

wisper I called the other day (another very nice man) and asked did they have a sales outlet in London. Chap was trying to persuade me to go to the new forest to demo them, But I could only ride it around their yard. Hardly a demo is it.... I have a campervan so new forest no problem... but come on! offer a proper demo. And what if I have warranty problems, Brighton or anywhere in London would be preferable for a return or maintenance......

there has been a substantial price hike in the ezee range compared to what 50cycles were charging.

Hi Eddieo

Thanks for considering the Wisper 905se, you can test ride one at the Electric Transport Shop, see their ad on this page. They are on the Holloway Road. Electric Bike Sales - Home

If you do want to come down to the New Forest we would be delighted to let you take one on the road for a proper trial.

Regarding Ezee price increases, we are all having the same problems at the moment prices in China are increasing by roughly 1% per month. It makes no difference if the bikes are made and assembled in China or made in China and assembled in Europe we are all due to see similar increases.

Best regards David

 

[flecc]

So I want a reasonably light bike with Panasonic kit and a twist grip as well. Will probably have to wait as I don't see this spec being available with a throttle yet.

And I'm sure it won't be Eddie. The Panasonic unit isn't supplied that way and with the impending change to the EU law meaning pedelec compulsory, it's unlikely they'd bother now. EU law allows throttle use combined with pedelec, but it wouldn't be worth it to Panasonic for that minor refinement.

BikeTech of Switzerland make a high performance FlyerS using a modified Panasonic unit for up to 30 mph with a throttle that works up to about 12 mph, but at around £2500 it's not a realistic prospect, quite apart from it being a moped in law and needing registering as such with all that comes with that.
.

 

[eddieo]

Well, we had a delightful trip to Italy got back in August. there seems to be a few new bikes coming out soon, with a more conventional hybrid style and weight. but keep getting drawn back to the wisper purely as it seems the most powerful and with my weight thats important lol.

I have set a deadline for around beginning of October. As going to France for half term. Would like a bike a few weeks before to get used to it. wife has said just get the one for now and see how we get on with it - probably a sensible idea.

would like identical bikes for similar range abilities. but wife not impressed with look of the wisper. She is not overweight, plus is younger and fitter then me. I may get a cytronex/ infinium/ X byke. Then see how I get on with it and if good enough buy another or get a wisper for me.

But £1200 for a wisper and I read that they have not very good stock brakes or tyres...is this correct?

so the clock is ticking now guys...... any ideas?

 

[frank9755]

The Wisper brakes have been changed. Not heard any feedback on the new ones but with any luck they will be better. Some have got on ok with the Kenda tyres, but I changed mine after the first puncture and the bike has been better for it.

I think you're looking at some decent candidates, however it's very hard to work out what is the 'best' without trying a few to see how they feel. Have you tried the bikes yet?

The only other advice I'd give you is that whatever you go for, if you want to ride together, get two of the same! People who have not have been disappointed, due to the different cruising speeds as well as ranges.

 

[Phil the drill]

But £1200 for a wisper and I read that they have not very good stock brakes or tyres...is this correct?

so the clock is ticking now guys...... any ideas?

Hi
The 905se is a great bike, well made with a good range and decent spec. I have one and have not had a problem with the tyres. I live in an area surrounded by steep hilly lanes which are very badly potholed, loose surfaced and generally well plastered in copius quantities of slurrry / manure / mud (basically an 8 mile route between hilly farms) - I think the tyres have had a pretty decent testing!
As I have posted previously, I wasn't too keen on the brakes, which are a weak point. No bike is perfect however, and they are at least relatively easy to improve on without massive expense. Additionally, I believe that Wisper have taken steps to improve on this on their newer bikes, so it is possible that this criticism may now be out of date, although not having seen their latest version I can't comment on that for sure. Gazelle charge £1600 for their bike, which although undoubtedly well made, I would be very hesistant to try out their roller brakes in anger round here....
I bought my Wisper at the end of April and despite not being able to ride it for nearly a month (working away) I have covered approx 1,000 miles on it, with no problems at all, other than the odd screw needing to be retightened. Frankly on the roads around here anything not well made would shake to pieces on the downhill sections of these lanes, so I'm basically pretty pleased so far.
Hope this helps,
Cheers, Phil

 

[Phil the drill]

Deleted, I keep accidentally double posting - sorry

 

[JohnInStockie]

I'd second Franks advice about getting 2 the same Eddie. It comes in handy if one of the chargers breaks to have another about, and its also handy to have 2 of the same batteries for extra long treks or again if one of the batteries can be recelled/swapped.

And of course its no fun to see your partner race off ahead of you on a different bike/motor.

John

 

[flecc]

Two the same does make sense.

However, if you do still consider the Cytronex you need to move quite soon. Mark has warned a price increase is coming due to the costs that have pushed up most other makes prices, and has advised anyone to act quickly to get the last at £995.
.

 

[JohnInStockie]

If you are going to opt for 2 the same, then your required frame size range may narrow the choice available quite severly. What frame sizes do you think you will be after?

John

 

[eddieo]

If you are going to opt for 2 the same, then your required frame size range may narrow the choice available quite severly. What frame sizes do you think you will be after?

John

Thanks guys!I will wait for reviews of new bikes on my list as they should be appearing soon. and will stick with original identical bike spec as everyone kind of agrees that this is sensible.

last year we were going to get a pair of his and her "specialized" hybrids (to replace our folders) and both were I think medium size......I am 5.10 with a 29 inch inside leg.

if the cytronex offered a large pannier battery as an option, I would buy it without hesitation as it looks smashing from pic's on anther thread, a well made bike that can be used without battery, which fits my motor homing criteria. I don't think I could ride the wisper without a battery.