New Super Light Tongxin Motor Design/Kit

[jerrysimon]

Thanks Dan. I have actually been able to move the sensor to the top like yours now that I have moved the ring across to the other side, so now it no longer fouls the fold which it did when I had it under the BB casing.

Finally I seem to be getting there, I connected it all up again using my Bulgin plug only to find it cutting in and out as I started off again

I tracked the fault finally to the supplied plug in the pedelec sensor lead which I had left in. When I cut that plug out and soldered the wires together it worked fine. Maybe it just did not like that the wire was split with two separate plugs. Anyway its finally working as it should and I don't have to put the controller on the bike, again trying to keep the carry weight down as much as possible.

The carry weight is now 11.5kg including the motor and wiring which basically means I have an eBrompton with motor fitted at the same carry weight as my stock steel M3L Brompton.

Almost ready to post some final pics. Tomorrow maybe

Regards

Jerry

 

[neptune]

I have just realised something about the 8fun motor. The cable does not exit through the wheel axle. Drilling the axle for cable exit, weakens it . So the 8fun method will give an axle of the same strength as you would get from a bigger, hollow axle. So you have a small yet strong axle, making it less likely that fork dropouts will need to be filed. Good design.

 

[John in DC]

I would suspect that not all of those are magnets...otherwise there would be no reason at all for it to not work exactly the same in both directions.
Ben

Newbie here just come out of lurking.

If the pedelec unit has two coils inside, it would send two evenly spaced pulses to the controller as the magnets pass by. Knowing the order in which the pulses are received would allow the controller to determine which way the crank shaft is being turned.

Alternately, the controller could also determine crank shaft direction by the polarity of the electric current produced as each magnet passes by.

Jerry - can you tell us how many wires are coming from the pedelec?

Rgds...

- John

 

[jerrysimon]

John, welcome to the forum

The pedelec sensor has three wires as do they all as far as I know. As I said all the metal inserts are magnets.

It defiantly works better placed on the non crank side. I am hoping to ride it to work today for the first time and will post some pics of the completed bike on a new thread soon.

Regards

Jerry

 

[John in DC]

The pedelec sensor has three wires as do they all as far as I know...

Three wires implies two coils - - which per above, is likely how the controller knows the direction of the crank shaft.

It defiantly works better placed on the non crank side.

The proximity of a large chunk of rotating steel (ie the main crank) to the sensor will tend to upset the magnetic field - - thus reducing the consistency of the wave forms "seen" by the sensor.

Thanks for the warm welcome. I look forward to seeing pics of the completed project.

Rgds...

- John

 

[John in DC]

Actually the ones without the controller built in are not as expensive. This one worked out at about £120 incl shipping.

Would you mind sharing what was included at this price (motor, motor controller, pedelec sensor & magnet, etc)?

If anyone is thinking of ordering one make sure you ask for the V brake version in the narrow 80mm width (not shown on the web site) or you will end up with the roller brake version shown on their web site........I have the specific part number if people want it.

I would like to know the specific part number. Can you provide?

Thanks again for the great post !

Rgds...

- John

 

[jerrysimon]

John,

That was just the motor I think total cost including motor, controller and pedelec sensor was around $220. That also included a $35 payment for using paypal which I preferred to pay by. You also need factor in import duty and VAT.

If you want the exact same motor then they quoted me 98SWXN36 V brake motor/36V/260rpm/36h/80mm

Feel free to mention me if you want the exact same motor as they should have a record of that. The contact is Sky Zhang. She speaks/writes excellent English. Note they also tend to make this stuff to order so it may take a few weeks before it is shipped but tends to arrive fairly quickly after that. Patience is always required when dealing directly with suppliers from China.

I am about to do a final write up of the motor/controller and although I am pleased with it for the Brompton there are a few niggles/issues to get around.

PS you can also request them to drill the motor 28h or 32h. If I had known I would be using it permanently on the Brompton, I would have ordered a 28h one so I could use it on the stock rim.

Regards

Jerry

 

[polyphasic]

How is the range in relation to your nano setup?

Where do people get spokes? Is Alan a supplier?

Anyway Alan is cutting me a nice set of spokes for radial so we will see

Regards

Jerry

 

[dingrpdl]

Patience is always required when dealing directly with suppliers from China.

Ain't that the truth! I have been waiting three weeks for Outrider to send me my Tongxin motor and rim to be used in my second Brompton conversion. When I sent them a message to give them a nudge last week, Cici (the rep I placed the order with) said that the motor was "still under developing"!

Richard

 

[jerrysimon]

How is the range in relation to your nano setup?

Where do people get spokes? Is Alan a supplier?

Range is dependent on battery/terrain ?

Technically for a given capacity, range should be slightly more (these motors are only 200w) though dependent on efficiency I guess. Not had chance to check yet. That said I think the existing narrow Tongxin nanos are only 180w anyway so I doubt there will be much difference ?

Alan (username catsnapper here) cuts spokes yes.

When I sent them a message to give them a nudge last week, Cici (the rep I placed the order with) said that the motor was "still under developing"!

Richard Cici has been doing his thesis I think. The Universities/R&D seem to be very linked to a direct industry/factory as far as I can work out. Also Tongxin seem to make motors to order so it always takes a few weeks to make before you are sent parts. I have just had a few controllers sent and have waited 3-4 weeks for those to.

I am taking some pics to do a thread of it fitted finally to my Brompton M2L-X and will do a concluding post here as well.


Regards

Jerry

 

[John in DC]

FYI, Jerry -

Found the following on Keyde's Chinese site...

>>>>>snipped>>>>>
Of our newly developed motor controller uses the most advanced non-Hall-driven technology, small size, beautiful appearance, posts can be installed in any part of the frame, the original hibernation and change wake up function within five minutes after the controller has stopped working will automatically go into hibernation to save power consumption, various protection functions, make the ride more comfortable.
<<<<<snipped<<<<<

Any thoughts re: their reference to non-Hall-driven technology?

Also, can you describe your experiences with the controller's sleep mode?

Rgds...

- John

 

[polyphasic]

Alan (username catsnapper here) cuts spokes yes.

Regards

Jerry

Thank you for the response. What would be the spoke mm length for this Goldant motor using 28h? I'm not sure how to figure out the spoke length to order.

 

[jerrysimon]

What would be the spoke mm length for this Goldant motor using 28h? I'm not sure how to figure out the spoke length to order.

You would need to use an online spoke calculator like this

Spoke length calculator for calculating spokelengths

Have you built a wheel before ?

Regards

Jerry

 

[jerrysimon]

Any thoughts re: their reference to non-Hall-driven technology?

Also, can you describe your experiences with the controller's sleep mode?

Interesting John. Non Hall simply means only three wires to the motor i.e. no hall sensors. Hall sensors, in the past, tended to give a smoother startup for the motor though controllers now seem to cope fine without them.

Did not notice any sleep mode though I tend to switch the the pedelec off when not using it. Sounds like it is a good thing if it enters a sleep mode to save power though. Note they may of course be talking about the motor with the "built in" controller whereas mine has the external controller.

Regards

Jerry

 

[John in DC]

Did not notice any sleep mode though I tend to switch the the pedelec off when not using it. Sounds like it is a good thing if it enters a sleep mode to save power though. Note they may of course be talking about the motor with the "built in" controller whereas mine has the external controller.

The translated text above was snipped from the external controller product page (ie stand alone controller - - not the motor page) so perhaps yours possesses this feature.

Any way to test controller current draw after five minutes of non use? IIRC, it's supposed to be 1.5 mA in sleep mode, which should last quite a long while, no?

Rgds...

- John

 

[jerrysimon]

Ok its wet and rainy out so went and wired up my multimeter. The current draw definitely drops after a few minutes of idle connection.

Firstly, connecting the meter up in series on the positive side and running the motor and then stopping it drops and stables out at 00.10 with the setting on mA. So is that 100mA ?

After a minute or so it drops again stables out at around 00.03 so 30mA ?

That said, after 5 mins or so my multimeter bleeps to say it is going to turn off so maybe it is going down to all but zero ?

I am not/never was an electronics guru lol


Regards

Jerry

 

[John in DC]

For reference purposes, here is the complete text taken from the Chinese language product page...

>>>>>snipped>>>>>
Brand: KEYDE, Color: White
Item: WZK24-36

Product details:*
Of our newly developed motor controller uses the most advanced non-Hall-driven technology, small size, beautiful appearance, posts can be installed in any part of the frame, the original hibernation and change wake up function within five minutes after the controller has stopped working will automatically go into hibernation to save power consumption, various protection functions, make the ride more comfortable.

Rated voltage: 36V*
Cut-off current 8-12A*
Rated power: 250W*
Maximum power: greater than or equal to 95%*
Static current <12mA*
Sleep current <1.5mA*
Size: 135 × 33 × 16mm*
Weight: 60 grams*

Note: to purchase a controller, and comes with a set of sensors. Of our newly developed high-resolution sensor magnet number is 2 times that of conventional sensors, inspection line is more comfortable, more elegant and compact, higher reliability. Outside diameter: 40mm Inside diameter: 16mm Thickness: 6mm

Thanks for the support of the buyers on the shop!
<<<<<snipped<<<<<

Rgds...

- John

 

[jerrysimon]

So John do my measurements of static and sleep current match the specs ?


PS that weight measurement is wrong though probably does not include the wires hence why when I weighed it, it was nearer 220gms

Regards

Jerry

 

[John in DC]

So John do my measurements of static and sleep current match the specs ?

Assuming that your interpretation of the readings are correct, it sure looks close doesn't it?

The important thing to note is that it does indeed go into a power saving sleep mode.

Nice !!!

Rgds...

- John

 

[jerrysimon]

Thanks John.

For the future when others read this thread here is the link to my Brompton build using this motor.

I wish you could edit previous posts but there seems to be a time out since the forum was updated with the new software. It would have been better to post this link in an earlier post on the thread.

Regards

Jerry