Nice idea but...

Scimitar

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jul 31, 2010
1,772
40
Ireland
He's no worse than Dyson though, that bloke was a one trick wonder who's own ideas have been pretty poor
It's not even as if Dyson invented the concept of the cyclone - such a device was used in wood workshop vacuums but on a much bigger scale, years before his device. To give some credit, an invention is a novel application or combination of several existing technologies, so I could grudgingly concede him that.
As for him off-shoring British jobs - well he can go hang; I won't be buying a Diesoon any time soon.
 

jazper53

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 20, 2012
890
18
Brighton
It's not even as if Dyson invented the concept of the cyclone - such a device was used in wood workshop vacuums but on a much bigger scale, years before his device. To give some credit, an invention is a novel application or combination of several existing technologies, so I could grudgingly concede him that.
As for him off-shoring British jobs - well he can go hang; I won't be buying a Diesoon any time soon.
I agree fully.

All British companies that go abroad for cheap labour, or tax avoidance, should be named, and shamed and boycotted. I like to add another company AMAZON that has gone offshore for tax reasons and has not payed any corporation tax and is under investigation for tax avoidance.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/apr/04/amazon-british-operation-corporation-tax
 
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Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
You don't have to be intelligent to run a business,but you do have to have the ability to see the intelligence and strengths in others and guide those attributes in a positive direction. I have guys working for me who do not value their own abilities but I see the contribution that they can make. I also have friends who are ultra intelligent but would never be able to run a business.
Dave
Kudoscycles
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
I agree fully.

All British companies that go abroad for cheap labour, or tax avoidance, should be named, and shamed and boycotted. I like to add another company AMAZON that has gone offshore for tax reasons and has not payed any corporation tax and is under investigation for tax avoidance.


Amazon: £7bn sales, no UK corporation tax | Technology | The Guardian
Jazper,it tends to be the big multinationals who have the possibility to move their profits around the world to their tax advantage,us SME's just cannot hide the profits to the same extent and therefore pay a disproportionate amount of tax. If I add up rates,corporation tax,vat,paye etc I pay 4 times in tax to that which I put in my pocket,the risk-reward ratio is such that at times one wonders whether its worth the effort,but I enjoy my work. A company like Amazon or Google can easily move their profits to Ireland (12% corporation tax),if I went anywhere near an Irish company HMRC would go through me. I don't blaim Jimmy Carr trying to legally avoid tax,Tony Blair and Philip Green are good roll models.
I wish this government would be brave and have a flat rate of tax on everything,surely some clever accountant could work out a percentage that would yield the same tax,maybe that is 20%,23%,25%,I don't know. Then put the flat rate on everything,simplify the whole tax system,that would eliminate all the stupid games we all have to play with expensive accountants,let us all pay a fair amount of tax and have punitive fines for those who buck the system.
Dave
Rally Design/Kudoscycles
 

Mussels

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jun 17, 2008
3,207
8
Crowborough
I agree fully.

All British companies that go abroad for cheap labour, or tax avoidance, should be named, and shamed and boycotted. I like to add another company AMAZON that has gone offshore for tax reasons and has not payed any corporation tax and is under investigation for tax avoidance.


Amazon: £7bn sales, no UK corporation tax | Technology | The Guardian
Tax avoidance is legal and something anyone opening an ISA account does, they wouldn't be under investigation for that. I don't find it surprising as any company that large will be closely watched, a bit of a non news item really.
Most people are happy to reap the benefits of global trade but get upset when someone else does. FWIW I can't think of a bike that doesn't use some components from the far east, even Pashley.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,560
30,849
I also have friends who are ultra intelligent but would never be able to run a business.
Dave
Kudoscycles
In fact high intelligence can be and often is a bar to running a successful business. The intelligence to see the scale of the problems of starting up one can easily stop an intelligent person in their tracks, where a not very bright person will just blunder in and start up. The short sighted types who seem to run many bike shop businesses are surely an indication of that.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,560
30,849
Most people are happy to reap the benefits of global trade but get upset when someone else does. FWIW I can't think of a bike that doesn't use some components from the far east, even Pashley.
Dyson moving his manufacturing to China made perfect economic sense. What makes his example particularly objectionable to many was the way he retained the very high British manufactured prices immediately after doing that, three times and more that of the other Chinese made cyclone cleaners. Presumably this was to con those who didn't know he'd moved his production, but he's been increasingly losing business ever since as people wake up. Like Scimitar above, I wouldn't touch any product of his now.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
Dyson moving his manufacturing to China made perfect economic sense. What makes his example particularly objectionable to many was the way he retained the very high British manufactured prices immediately after doing that, three times and more that of the other Chinese made cyclone cleaners. Presumably this was to con those who didn't know he'd moved his production, but he's been increasingly losing business ever since as people wake up. Like Scimitar above, I wouldn't touch any product of his now.
We have in the Pedelec business a well known company who has a union jack sticker on every bike and a large union jack logo on his stand at the cycle show but those bikes are manufactured in Shanghai. All our bikes are manufactured in China and if asked I tell my customers. Should we not have a rule that if you use a union jack on a product,then that product should be UK made or at least assembled in the UK?
Dave
Kudoscycles
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,253
3,197
We have in the Pedelec business a well known company who has a union jack sticker on every bike and a large union jack logo on his stand at the cycle show but those bikes are manufactured in Shanghai.
Who is this please? I'd like to know because I make a point of avoiding businesses and individuals who have such contempt for their customers that they operate in this way.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
Tax avoidance is legal and something anyone opening an ISA account does, they wouldn't be under investigation for that. I don't find it surprising as any company that large will be closely watched, a bit of a non news item really.
Most people are happy to reap the benefits of global trade but get upset when someone else does. FWIW I can't think of a bike that doesn't use some components from the far east, even Pashley.
Mussels,I used to work for a large multinational who constantly moved their profits around the world,HMRC just don't have the expertise or manpower to do the forensic accounts investigations to determine why one particular division makes more profits than another,tax payments at that level is more about social awareness than real numbers.
However when smaller companies try the same tricks,the movement becomes easier to identify,not so easily masked by masses of data. Do you remember when Colin Chapman set up a design division in Panama City and tried to eliminate all the UK profits of Lotus by charging a design fee of £9million (long time ago),the revenue spotted that immediately but if one of the large auto suppliers did the same it would go undetected. Governments are mere pawns of these multinationals and have to be grateful for whatever tax is charitably given.
Dave
Kudoscycles
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
Who is this please? I'd like to know because I make a point of avoiding businesses and individuals who have such contempt for their customers that they operate in this way.
Tillson,I made a conscious decision not to state the company name because i thought it would be a bit of sport for others to work it out.
Dave
Kudoscycles
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,253
3,197
Tillson,I made a conscious decision not to state the company name because i thought it would be a bit of sport for others to work it out.
Dave
Kudoscycles
My Kalkhoff has got a swastika on it which means that it must have come from The Fatherland, so its not that one and I couldn't work out how to operate my Biro, so I couldn't fill in the Mensa question paper. You are just going to have to tell me.
 

Hugh

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2009
290
44
I did exactly the same. One meeting was enough. I tend to take the Groucho Marx line on Mensa.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,560
30,849
My Kalkhoff has got a swastika on it which means that it must have come from The Fatherland, so its not that one and I couldn't work out how to operate my Biro, so I couldn't fill in the Mensa question paper. You are just going to have to tell me.
Perhaps someone will "whisper" the answer to you! ;)
 

grasshopper

Pedelecer
May 23, 2012
77
0
Tillson,I made a conscious decision not to state the company name because i thought it would be a bit of sport for others to work it out.
Dave
Kudoscycles
Not difficult! For once I was ahead of a flecc post!;)
 

grasshopper

Pedelecer
May 23, 2012
77
0
My Kalkhoff has got a swastika on it which means that it must have come from The Fatherland, ...
I've got INDIA on my tyres ... Psst! ... what was the question?:confused:
 

grasshopper

Pedelecer
May 23, 2012
77
0
We have in the Pedelec business a well known company who has a union jack sticker on every bike and a large union jack logo on his stand at the cycle show but those bikes are manufactured in Shanghai ...
The "well known" company distributes bikes that "... are designed for the UK, European, Australasian, American and Asian electric bike markets ..." Do all these bikes fly the Union Flag or do they fly the flag of the country in which they are distributed? As the company is British they should fly the Union Flag world wide, otherwise, it becomes a "flag of convenience"!

Good marketing though, isn't it! :p ...
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,560
30,849
Do all these bikes fly the Union Flag or do they fly the flag of the country in which they are distributed? As the company is British they should fly the Union Flag world wide, otherwise, it becomes a "flag of convenience"!
No doubt they do, the Union Flag is displayed prominently on the home page of their website for all the world to see, clearly they are proud to be a British company.

There couldn't be a better time for a bicycle company to be proud to be British, given our emphatic Tour de France win this year with first and second place and our domination in so many other areas of cycle sport.

The company in question took over a Chinese made bike company with an e-bike model which was a long way from being ideal. They set to work to correct that and step by step with a continuous huge range of British sourced improvements and developments they've turned that bike and their whole brand into one of the most highly respected in the business. Many of the improvements came from the input of members of this forum, as British a source as one could imagine.

Anyone anywhere can bolt a bike together from parts, but it takes real engineering skills to design it right with the best ideas in the first place and that is our British strength. So no need to tip-toe around the identity of the company who are so rightly proud to be British and proud of their product, it's Wisper.
.
 
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