Ongoing reliability of Kalkhoff/Focus Impulse 2 motors

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
2,310
That's everything in consumer law, not just e-bikes. The retailer has the liability.
.
Bike retailers have been largely avoiding their warranty responsibility for years.

Most claims are dealt with on the basis: "We will contact the maker/importer and see what they say."

In other words, the retailer is no more than a message boy.

Enforcing rights can be difficult, so I can fully understand why some customers give up and pay for the repair themselves.

A small point about 50 Cycles, I see they have stopped selling Speed Kalkhoff bikes, but are offering several Riese and Muller HS 28mph Bosch motored bikes.

From what I can gather Kalkhoff/Impulse bikes of all flavours fail, but common sense suggests the Speed pedelecs would be even less reliable.
 

Aftersales 50cycles UK

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 29, 2015
13
12
No, the legal claim under CRA 2015, as was the case under the earlier SOGA, is/was uniquely with the actual "seller" involved in the purchase whether they are local or not.
But, I agree the main distributor and maker should ethically pick up and run with giving the same support where the seller is no longer on the scene to meet their legal obligations. Sadly in the case you mentioned that was not their stance and that is very worrying and a very big red flag to potential buyers, particularly buying from more commercially fragile sellers.
Hi,

Both Kalkhoff and 50cycles work very well together to resolve any issues and I could not see any possibility of a customer needing to go to those lengths so long as the warranty and returns process was handled correctly in the first place.

We can only go on a case by case basis and we aim to offer all customers the best solution for their needs. An electric bike is a utility vehicle and with 50cycles now approaching over 25000 customers it is to our testament that we have managed to keep all on the road satisfactorily for nearly 15 years right from multiple recalls on various brands over the years.

In conclusion we would definitely say that both brands are stronger because of the recent issues bolstering 50cycles service levels and Kalkhoff motor technology now becoming bomb proof.

It is a win win for the end user which has brought about longer warranty periods of 3 years and better price to spec ratios.

Kind regards

Joe
 
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Aftersales 50cycles UK

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 29, 2015
13
12
Bike retailers have been largely avoiding their warranty responsibility for years.

Most claims are dealt with on the basis: "We will contact the maker/importer and see what they say."

In other words, the retailer is no more than a message boy.

Enforcing rights can be difficult, so I can fully understand why some customers give up and pay for the repair themselves.

A small point about 50 Cycles, I see they have stopped selling Speed Kalkhoff bikes, but are offering several Riese and Muller HS 28mph Bosch motored bikes.

From what I can gather Kalkhoff/Impulse bikes of all flavours fail, but common sense suggests the Speed pedelecs would be even less reliable.
Hi Rob F,

Sadly Kalkhoff no longer import Speed Pedelecs in to the UK so we had to find an alternative supplier and we are more than happy with the switch to Reise & Muller for high end speed Pedelecs. These are sold to customers who use them on private land and informed of the risks if they venture on to the public highways or towpaths.

We are also going the extra lengths to bring a fully road legal version to the UK and have a made start with our recent Motor Scooter registration and insurance processing. Hopefully this will help pave the way for those that want to venture off their homely estates with current models that are out there.


Kind regards

Joe

(admin note: sales links removed)
 
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Ocsid

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 2, 2017
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79
Hampshire
Thanks, Joe very reassuring and aligns with the company ethos implied during buying in Shoreham, and that painted by an acquaintance that recommended your company, despite or because of needing support with a failed motor.
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
2,310
Hi,

Both Kalkhoff and 50cycles work very well together to resolve any issues and I could not see any possibility of a customer needing to go to those lengths so long as the warranty and returns process was handled correctly in the first place.

We can only go on a case by case basis and we aim to offer all customers the best solution for their needs. An electric bike is a utility vehicle and with 50cycles now approaching over 25000 customers it is to our testament that we have managed to keep all on the road satisfactorily for nearly 15 years right from multiple recalls on various brands over the years.

In conclusion we would definitely say that both brands are stronger because of the recent issues bolstering 50cycles service levels and Kalkhoff motor technology now becoming bomb proof.

It is a win win for the end user which has brought about longer warranty periods of 3 years and better price to spec ratios.

Kind regards

Joe
Good to hear of a retailer actively trying to develop the market, rather than just flog lowest common denominator bikes from a container from China.

It will be an uphill task persuading buyers Klakhoff/Impulse problems are a thing of the past.

To be fair, my limited direct experience has been good.

Two acquaintances have newish Kalkhoff/Impulse bikes and both are pleased with them so far.

Motor questions aside, it's worth remembering Kalkhoff make excellent, well-finished bikes.

I'm biased in the sense I like quality German roadsters, having owned two of them.

I currently have a Riese and Muller Charger, and there's no doubt it's a lovely bike, and has been much admired.

Although the law of diminishing returns applies.

I'm not sure the price premium over, say, a Cube is entirely justified.
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,173
3,037
Good to hear of a retailer actively trying to develop the market, rather than just flog lowest common denominator bikes from a container from China.

It will be an uphill task persuading buyers Klakhoff/Impulse problems are a thing of the past.

To be fair, my limited direct experience has been good.

Two acquaintances have newish Kalkhoff/Impulse bikes and both are pleased with them so far.

Motor questions aside, it's worth remembering Kalkhoff make excellent, well-finished bikes.

I'm biased in the sense I like quality German roadsters, having owned two of them.

I currently have a Riese and Muller Charger, and there's no doubt it's a lovely bike, and has been much admired.

Although the law of diminishing returns applies.

I'm not sure the price premium over, say, a Cube is entirely justified.
Kalkhoff do indeed make excellent well finished bikes. Their motors on the other hand are Some of the worst we have seen in recent times.
 

Phil1701

Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2014
26
13
63
Good to hear of a retailer actively trying to develop the market, rather than just flog lowest common denominator bikes from a container from China.

It will be an uphill task persuading buyers Klakhoff/Impulse problems are a thing of the past.

To be fair, my limited direct experience has been good.

Two acquaintances have newish Kalkhoff/Impulse bikes and both are pleased with them so far.

Motor questions aside, it's worth remembering Kalkhoff make excellent, well-finished bikes.

I'm biased in the sense I like quality German roadsters, having owned two of them.

I currently have a Riese and Muller Charger, and there's no doubt it's a lovely bike, and has been much admired.

Although the law of diminishing returns applies.

I'm not sure the price premium over, say, a Cube is entirely justified.
The Blue Label Charger Nuvinci was my original choice two years ago but the I came across the Kalkhoff Integrale which looked and promised to be fantastic according to the sales literature. Plumped for the Integrale 8 and now regret it somewhat as it has Drive unit issues (occasional klunking noises from the freewheel mechanism) which still exist despite have been so called sorted by 50 cycles. Now spend most of my spare time riding my new Cube eMTB with Bosch CX Drive which is superb and the Kalkhoff is now a £3000 piece of junk gathering dust in the shed! Would never buy another Kalkhoff or a bike from 50 cycles.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

Aftersales 50cycles UK

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 29, 2015
13
12
The Blue Label Charger Nuvinci was my original choice two years ago but the I came across the Kalkhoff Integrale which looked and promised to be fantastic according to the sales literature. Plumped for the Integrale 8 and now regret it somewhat as it has Drive unit issues (occasional klunking noises from the freewheel mechanism) which still exist despite have been so called sorted by 50 cycles. Now spend most of my spare time riding my new Cube eMTB with Bosch CX Drive which is superb and the Kalkhoff is now a £3000 piece of junk gathering dust in the shed! Would never buy another Kalkhoff or a bike from 50 cycles.


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Dear Phil,

That does not sound right at all please forward your customer order number so we can arrange collection of your bike and replace the motor for you so you can get some joy from your bike or at least sell it with a new 3 year motor warranty if you have an alternative bike.

We really cannot let one customer go un-satisfied and with a little reasonable care and understanding from both parties I am sure we can get this matter satisfactorily sorted out for you.

Kind regards

Joe
 

Aftersales 50cycles UK

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 29, 2015
13
12
Kalkhoff do indeed make excellent well finished bikes. Their motors on the other hand are Some of the worst we have seen in recent times.
Dear Tilson,

It really is not as bad as what this forum makes out we have had 50 motor failures out of thousands of bikes sold and all apart from Phil if he can supply an order number have been resolved at no cost or inconvenience for the customer.

As a customer we have also provided you with a good service and we would be happy for this to continue by offering to get your current Panasonic Pro Connect back on the road for just the cost of the motor and a free service. Seeing as you are one of our founding Kalkhoff customers.

If you would like to email me directly on aftersales@50cycles.com you can arrange to bring your bike in to me.

Kind regards

Joe
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,173
3,037
Dear Tilson,

It really is not as bad as what this forum makes out we have had 50 motor failures out of thousands of bikes sold and all apart from Phil if he can supply an order number have been resolved at no cost or inconvenience for the customer.

As a customer we have also provided you with a good service and we would be happy for this to continue by offering to get your current Panasonic Pro Connect back on the road for just the cost of the motor and a free service. Seeing as you are one of our founding Kalkhoff customers.

If you would like to email me directly on aftersales@50cycles.com you can arrange to bring your bike in to me.

Kind regards

Joe
Dear Joe,

Thank you for your offer to assist me with my Panasonic model Pro Connect. Happily, the bike is once again working very well after the fault was traced to moisture in the handlebar controller.

50 Cycles have indeed provided me with good service over the past 9 1/2 years. Apart from an issue regarding the wheels, which Derby Cycles the brand owner resolved, I have absolutely no complaints about 50 Cycles. You even gave me a cycle computer free of charge on one occasion because I had to drive my bike over to you.

My bike will be 10 years old in June 2018 and will have covered well over 20,000 miles during the period. The original battery still works and is capable of over 10 miles. It has the original Alfine 8 speed hub and the whole bike cleans up like new. So the build quality is not in question.

I have a friend who bought an Impulse powered Pro Connect in 2015. The build quality of that bike is equal to mine, so no problems there. Because, unlike the Panasonic unit, the cut off on the Impulse motor is not cadence related, the bike rides very nicely and feels very smooth and natural. So in principle, the bike is a better proposition than my older Pro Connect.

The friend who owns the newer bike, like me is a very frequent high mileage user and a reasonably fit cyclist. During the warranty period, the bike had at least 2 new motors fitted. Shortly after the warranty expired, the motor failed yet again and the replacement had to be paid for. The latest motor, he tells me, has a rolling 2 year warranty. For example, if this one fails, it will be replaced for him and the warranty re-set to two years. He’s not had to test that yet, so it’s not possible to comment.

Personally, I wouldn’t be happy about the number of motor failures and that combined with what we read hear and what is reported on other forums, it tips the likelihood strongly in favour of there being an issue with the Impulse motor. I have sympathy for 50C because you have been left shouldering the burden of dealing with what could be a manufacturer’s fault.

What I have described above concerning the Impulse motor simply is not good enough. People have paid a lot of hard earned good money to buy a bike which is marketed as being high end quality. The price also reflects that these bikes should be very reliable.

Kalkhoff should not be selling new motors to customers who have had ongoing issues with the Impulse motor from new and throughout the entire warranty period. They should take this one on the chin and do the right thing.

I’m not having a go st 50C, but there definitely seems to be something wrong with the Impulse motor and I don’t think my statement regarding the reliability is unreasonable.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
It really is not as bad as what this forum makes out we have had 50 motor failures out of thousands of bikes sold
You're in danger of losing all credibility if you try and feed us crap. I reckon that I've been informed of 50 examples of motor failures and I don't even deal with Impulse motors. AFAICT, every single forum member, who's an owner of an Impulse motor that's done 2000 miles has had at least one replacement motor, and every owner that I know or who I've come across has had the same. If 50C have only dealt with 50 replacement motors, that's a very poor show because it implies that they've been fobbing off complaints and leaving their customers high and dry.
 

Aftersales 50cycles UK

Finding my (electric) wheels
Dec 29, 2015
13
12
You're in danger of losing all credibility if you try and feed us crap. I reckon that I've been informed of 50 examples of motor failures and I don't even deal with Impulse motors. AFAICT, every single forum member, who's an owner of an Impulse motor that's done 2000 miles has had at least one replacement motor, and every owner that I know or who I've come across has had the same. If 50C have only dealt with 50 replacement motors, that's a very poor show because it implies that they've been fobbing off complaints and leaving their customers high and dry.
Dear D

The fact is your fact is incorrect.

Kind regards

Joe
 

Steed

Pedelecer
Nov 5, 2016
67
57
Lincolnshire
You're in danger of losing all credibility if you try and feed us crap. I reckon that I've been informed of 50 examples of motor failures and I don't even deal with Impulse motors. AFAICT, every single forum member, who's an owner of an Impulse motor that's done 2000 miles has had at least one replacement motor, and every owner that I know or who I've come across has had the same. If 50C have only dealt with 50 replacement motors, that's a very poor show because it implies that they've been fobbing off complaints and leaving their customers high and dry.
 

Steed

Pedelecer
Nov 5, 2016
67
57
Lincolnshire
You can't speak for me d8veh (although on most occasions I agree with your expert comments). I am a forum member with a Kalkhoff Impulse that's done over 2,000 miles (well over 3,000 in fact) on the original motor. Impulse 1 though and I have a certain degree of mechanical empathy and treat it with respect.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
50,645
28,489
You can't speak for me d8veh (although on most occasions I agree with your expert comments). I am a forum member with a Kalkhoff Impulse that's done over 2,000 miles (well over 3,000 in fact) on the original motor. Impulse 1 though and I have a certain degree of mechanical empathy and treat it with respect.
Not relevant though, we know the Impulse 1 has a good record, it's the Impulse 2 that is the subject and the one d8veh refers to. Here's the title of this thread:

Ongoing reliability of Kalkhoff/Focus Impulse 2 motors
.
 

RobF

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 22, 2012
4,732
2,310
Failure rate, as usual, is very hard to work out.

I'm surprised at Dave's post, which indicates a failure rate of close to 100 percent over 2,000 miles.

On t'other hand, Dave is a straight talker and when he says he's been told of 50 failures, you can believe it.

However you cut it, buying a new Kalkhoff/Impulse bike remains a leap of faith.

Particularly as there's lots of viable alternatives with Bosch and Yamaha motors which don't fail nearly as often.
 

Steed

Pedelecer
Nov 5, 2016
67
57
Lincolnshire
Not relevant though, we know the Impulse 1 has a good record, it's the Impulse 2 that is the subject and the one d8veh refers to. Here's the title of this thread:

Ongoing reliability of Kalkhoff/Focus Impulse 2 motors
.
Thank goodness for that and here's me thinking my considerate pedalling was eking out a few more miles on my soon to fail Impulse1 motor when all along it is the Impulse 2 motor everyone is worried about. Shame the post I commented on just stated Impulse - not 1 or 2.
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
50,645
28,489
Thank goodness for that and here's me thinking my considerate pedalling was eking out a few more miles on my soon to fail Impulse1 motor when all along it is the Impulse 2 motor everyone is worried about. Shame the post I commented on just stated Impulse - not 1 or 2.
Understood Steed. I think there's been the odd Impulse 1 failure, but that's true of all these bike motors, including Panasonic and Bosch, anything can fail occasionally.

It seemed to be the more powerful Impulse 2 that really introduced the problems.
.
 
D

Deleted member 4366

Guest
Dear D

The fact is your fact is incorrect.

Kind regards

Joe
At least I have a certain amount of integrity. You're trying to play down the matter and play the part of the helpful service manager, when you personally tell forum members over the phone that you're not going to help them because they posted details of their problems on the forum, then your boss follows up with threatening emails. I guess that you didn't count those ones in your 50.