Powerpedals tonaro compy

[allen-uk]

And this is what Rog_London wrote explaining WHY it is more powerful...

rog_london
Senior Member

The controller has two power control functions: in the first place it limits the currect passed to the motor at all assist speeds, in order to (obviously) not cripple the battery or burn out the wiring and the motor, and in the second place it causes power to tail off as the official 15.5 MPH is approached.

How the 'derestrict' function works is entirely dependant on how the controller is programmed. For one thing it doesn't derestrict the bike in any sense - it merely moves the point at which power to the motor tails off up by some 3 MPH. Also as some have noticed it allows more power lower down the scale too, but once again it's a function of how the controller has been programmed. My opinion would be that it becomes noticeable above about 12 MPH.

There's a downside to using the Wisper in its 'off road' guise of course, as the battery has to work harder and so the range is reduced. If you're on the heavy side or not reasonably fit this effect would be more pronounced.

Rog.

And Rog's final comments, i.e. about being on the heavy side or not ... fit, apply to me in Spades, whatever that means.

Allen.

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Thanks Allen.... and Rog.

That is almost verbatim what I was told by our tech guy this morning. I was under the illusion it simply allowed the top speed to be extended. I never stop learning!

We are having a fiddle with the controller settings now so we can keep the power open as close to the 15.5mph cut off as possible.

All the best

David

 

[allen-uk]

Good news, David, because I think by default we're stumbling across an important point - i.e. that Wisper owners love their bikes (with the now out-of-date off-road buttons) NOT because they're interested in high top speeds, but because they want POWER at 'legal' speeds. Hence the interest in this story about Tonaros.


A.

 

[funkylyn]

Thanks david allen rog etc those explanations are very interesting and made in a very clear way........even I understood !

Can I presume that the very high torque of the tonaros is down to it being a crank driven motor as opposed to hub ?

''learning every day Lynda ''

 

[NRG]

There's something else to consider though, at 11mph and in restricted mode the motor is closer to it's max BEMF so power will naturally be lower than at say 6mph. Using the derestricted mode will increase the effective voltage applied to the motor and move the max BEMF point further away automatically increasing apparent power at 11mph. Depending on the circumstances when the button is used (steepness of climb strength of headwind etc) the bike may or may not accelerate.

In other words peak power remains the same in both modes but the increase in voltage when the button is used at 11mph gives an apparent increase in power due to the max BEMF point of the motor shifting further away.

Just to add I get the same effect on my DIY Peugeot when switching from low to high, similar to the derestrict button....peak draw from the battery (measured with a Watts up meter) is the same but the extra applied voltage makes the bike feel more powerful.

 

[flecc]

Can I presume that the very high torque of the tonaros is down to it being a crank driven motor as opposed to hub ?

In part yes, being able to direct the motor power through the bike's gears means the lower gears act as torque multipliers for the motor as well as the rider.

 

[allen-uk]

NRG: similar, but just for the sake of clarity:

Getting my bike out of our narrow hallway each day is cumbersome and buttons and switches get knocked off or on in the process, and although I try to check the off-road button before each trip, sometimes I forget, and ride away with it in the 'on road' position.

I start to notice as soon as I hit the slightest incline (wouldn't call 'em hills), when I have to start pushing the pedals with more muscle. First thought is usually "Oh, the battery must be lower than I thought," and second thought "No it's not, it's the off-road switch!" And it usually is.

So it's not a question of switching it ON when I need more - I have it on all the time, probably contributing to my less-than-standard range.

Anyway, reverting to original topic, the thought of a more POWERFUL ebike is interesting to me - but not for speed, just for 'oomph'.

A.

 

[funkylyn]

Allen.....what IS your range on your wisper generally with the off-road switch on and a varied trip with some hills ?

Lynda

 

[allen-uk]

Allen.....what IS your range on your wisper generally with the off-road switch on and a varied trip with some hills ?

Lynda

Lynda: bear in mind (why isn't anything simple?) that:

a) I ALWAYS use the throttle to start off from rest, because of my missing left leg. I can pedal fine, once the bike is doing 3 mph+, but getting going from zero is only just possible on the flat, and nearly impossible on the slightest incline. Once I'm going, I rarely use the throttle, but as soon as I stop for crossroads, traffic, whatever, then it's throttle again.

b) The missing leg means even pedalling as hard as I can, it is not as efficient as two proper legs - I've got 2 knees, but nothing below the knee on one side, so no calf muscle, no ankle joints or muscles.

c) I am 115kg on a good day, i.e. WAY over the weight limit for any ebike!

d) I am old and feeble (well, old-ish at 64, and feeble-ish never having been overly active even when I had all my legs).

Bearing all that in mind, then my range including a smattering of north London's hills, is low 20s (22-25) in this sort of weather, and it drops down to low teens in very cold weather.

I am sure that my abnormal use of the throttle contributes largely to those low figures.

A.

 

[funkylyn]

Thanks Allen.....and, you're not THAT old I'm close behind you

But I will bear in mind your driving system which only goes to prove that you are certainly
NOT feeble either

Lynda

 

[Wisper Bikes]

Good news, David, because I think by default we're stumbling across an important point - i.e. that Wisper owners love their bikes (with the now out-of-date off-road buttons) NOT because they're interested in high top speeds, but because they want POWER at 'legal' speeds. Hence the interest in this story about Tonaros.


A.

Very good point Allen, I am "All Ears". Yesterday (due to your and Rog's comments) we made some dramatic changes to the controller at Dapu. We have managed to keep the soft start so the wheels don't spin in the wet (especially important on the FWD 906Alpino folder) but have extended the full poer band as long as possible to the 15.5mph +10% cut off. The new bikes arriving in June will all have this modification.

Thanks!

All the best

David

 

[TylerD]

Still make it 19 inches,Tyler!

Thanks Hoppy, I've asked Powerpedals to have another look!

 

[TylerD]

I've just spoken to Phil at Powerpedals and he has come up with another set of panniers which fit the Compy. He's going to email some photos to me so If anyone's interested I can try to post them. He has also told me about a Tonaro supplier in Scotland which is great as it means I can have a test ride tomorrow-brilliant!

 

[jerrysimon]

Interesting thread.

I found this video over on the Endless-sphere site. Shows pedelec and throttle options well.

[video=youtube;uKLacqsJbek]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKLacqsJbek[/video]

Quite a lot of info over there on this link

PS although a bit blury this one shows more clearly how it works. Seems simlar to those chain crank motors being flogged on ebay with outragous claims of speed etc but this one looks much much neater.

[video=youtube;oaojp_qD5zA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaojp_qD5zA[/video]

PPS there actually a whole set that show it being fitted or is this a different motor ?

[video=youtube;hj3ZtO8fbCQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj3ZtO8fbCQ[/video]

See the others here. I have to say it looks very neat and well engineered to retro fit

http://www.youtube.com/user/garokwok#g/u

Regards

Jerry

 

[Graeme]

I've just spoken to Phil at Powerpedals and he has come up with another set of panniers which fit the Compy. He's going to email some photos to me so If anyone's interested I can try to post them. He has also told me about a Tonaro supplier in Scotland which is great as it means I can have a test ride tomorrow-brilliant!

Can you let us know where this Scottish dealer is located please, and if you know, what models they hold as demos.
Thanks
Graeme

 

[vhfman]

Jerry, the motor may be the same in the retro fit kit but the drive is delivered to the crank in different ways. The Tonaro motor drives an integrated gear system to power the crank; and is bolted on to a specially designed frame. Whereas the retro fit kit made by Eastunworld, which I referred to on page 1 of this thread, is coupled to the crank via chain drive to one of the chain rings. Unfortunately the link I had to the company making the retrofit central drive kit, appears to be dead (Under Construction) at the moment, and they are not responding to email. So I am not sure if we will see it again in another guise. But it looked like an interesting product if a bit rough around the edges; a bit like the Cyclone crank drive.

The French site which I linked to earlier in the thread, claim that their latest versions of the motor are now 240W giving 120Nm of torque, compared to the 200W 90Nm of the Tonaro Powerpedals are selling.

Chris

 

[jerrysimon]

Thanks for the clarification Chris.

Although maybe rough around the edges compared to the one with the integrated gearbox, the instalation and appearance of this kit is huge improvement over the Cyclone offering!

Regards

Jerry

 

[TylerD]

Can you let us know where this Scottish dealer is located please, and if you know, what models they hold as demos.
Thanks
Graeme

Sorry for delay in replying Graeme. It's Lawntech in Dundonald St in Dundee , so handy for you. I was there today trying the Compy and they couldn't have been more helpful. I'm not sure what other Tonaro models if any they have , I know they're dealers for Wisper , also Ebco (hadn't heard of them but I tried their Urban Commuter which was a lovely bike to ride). Unfortunately I've decided the Compy is not for me, because of the riding position. I'm not used to having handlebars so far forward so couldn't get comfy enough to really let it do itself justice. I can say that it was very quiet and went up the steep hill beside Lawntech without any difficulty, and the fact that it also has the throttle is great.Seemed very solid and well built too so please don't let my experience of it put off anyone who might be interested in trying it. As I've said Lawntech were extremely helpful and were more than happy for me to have another go after I had tried the Urban Commute. They did say that they could fit higher, swept back handlebars but without knowing exactly how it would ride with them I've decided not to take the risk

 

[Graeme]

TylerD- thanks so much for the info re:Torano at Lawntech, Dundee.
So happy they are offering a wider range of bikes from different manufacturers.
All I need now is for them to offer Kalkhoffs and Juicy Bikes